Atheists Call 9-11 Memorial Cross "Grossly Offensive"

[Retro Rob]

First thing to consider is that the bible doesn't teach that selling your daughter into sexual slavery is right. That passage doesn't talk about sexual slavery anyway. You've interpreted it that way because you're ignorant of the culture and practices of the society this was addressed to. That isn't the bible's fault, that is your fault.

As I've said that this isn't teaching that sexual slavery is right it isn't talking about it at all. For your information I grew up in a church-less home, I was an Atheist until I was around 27. I wasn't brainwashed as you seem to enjoy to continually hint at.

I agree -- context is everything.

 

[buckshot24]

What a cop out. Everything that god does is fine, because he's god. Circular logic at it's finest.

It isn't circular at all. I'm saying that IF God exists then he has more information than you about the subject. Why should your ignorance be better than God's knowledge?

Please notice I didn't say whatever God does is moral.

 

[Juddog]

What a cop out. Everything that god does is fine, because he's god. Circular logic at it's finest.

Exactly - god creates a magic apple that he knows the talking snake will convince the rib woman to eat, then punishes the rib woman and her superior (the man) for doing what he planned for her to do; suddenly it's all the rib woman's fault, not the troll who planned the entire thing.

It's like penalizing a domino for falling in place after you set up the whole chain of events. The god of the Bible is basically the ultimate troll of all time. Creates sin, then punishes man for doing it, after knowing he would do it. Creates a version of himself that dies to get rid of something that he put there in the first place.

 

[justoh]

irrational people predictably behaving irrationally and ignoring reasonable conclusions about the contents of the bible. But since it wasn't rational to expect a different result, everyone is guilty here and should all burn for eternity.

 

[Juddog]

It isn't circular at all. I'm saying that IF God exists then he has more information than you about the subject. Why should your ignorance be better than God's knowledge?

Please notice I didn't say whatever God does is moral.

Who decides morality? If God is all powerful, than he can make himself be entirely moral or entirely immoral and change the word however he sees fit; except he never does, because he doesn't actually exist. I find it mind-boggling that people are still arguing about a stupid book full of inconsistencies from 2000 years ago as if it's real.

This is really no different than a bunch of dudes sitting around in viking helmets arguing whether or not Thor is Odins father, or Odin is Thor's father (in some nordic tribes, Odin was viewed as Thor's son).

 

[child of wonder]

2 Peter 2:5, indicated he preached.

In many translations, the word "preacher" is used but others use "herald." In either case, the author of 2 Peter could easily have been copying Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews which does say Noah "preached" to people. However since 2 Peter was most likely written between 100 and 150 CE and Antiquities was around 94-95 CE, it is possible the author of 2 Peter used Josephus as reference. Josephus probably got his information from book 1 of the Sibylline Oracles which was a collection of orations and prophecies muttered by seeresses in a trance but we have little record of who those people were and their predictions were almost always false, but it most likely came from Jewish Midrashim (commentaries) of the Talmud where people assumed the timespan between god deciding everyone was wicked and the flood itself occurred was to warn people. Obviously, the Bible does not support this.

In any event, no official record exists of Noah preaching to anyone, only speculation.

As I and others have stated, even if he did that in no way absolves god from committing mass genocide.

Even if I grant you Noah didn't preach, God is the ultimate judge, and can read people's hearts, minds, etc....so regardless if Noah preached or not (which he obviously did), God was the Final Judge.

Call it murder, genocide....so what? You all are entitled to your opinion, and my opinions are God was just, right, and I fully support what he did.

Exactly. You will support any atrocity, even to the level of mass genocide, if god says so.

Tell me, if god came to you right now and commanded you to murder your son, would you do it, Abraham?

How about this, Elisha? Would you side with god if he killed a neighbor boy because he bullied your daughter?

How would you explain to the authorities, Saul, if you invaded a local town god was displeased with and killed every man, woman, and child under god's command?

Could you, Jeremiah, obey and support god if he told you to embargo a city until the occupants turned to cannibalism?

Like I said, you're a terrible person. Worse still, as most wicked people are, you believe yourself to be completely righteous and guided by a higher moral authority.

 

[Retro Rob]

Just imagine if we could establish that X was morally wrong and that it should be illegal to do it. Also X has been ingrained throughout society for many years and many generations. Which of these two ways would be better?

1. Stop all X immediately, jail anybody who provides X and anybody who tries to get X.
2. Restrict certain kinds of X and require xyz before X could be obtained. Then after some years increase the restrictions until eventually X is outlawed completely.

I think its obvious that 2 is the better course of action. I think God meets people where they are at and not where He wants them to be.

That means while God doesn't change principles, he's flexible, IMO.

For instance, under the mosaic law, King David was suppose to be killed for taking another mans wife, and orchestrating his murder.

The account indicates that God showed mercy because David 1) recognized his sin, and 2) never repeated it. Psalms (though I forget the chapter and verse) said David was good in Gods eyes.

David was forgiven and didn't die, though he had to rightly suffer consequences for his actions.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I find all this preaching by evangelist and atheists quite disturbing and grossly offensive.

 

[Retro Rob]

In many translations, the word "preacher" is used but others use "herald." In either case, the author of 2 Peter could easily have been copying Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews which does say Noah "preached" to people. However since 2 Peter was most likely written between 100 and 150 CE and Antiquities was around 94-95 CE, it is possible the author of 2 Peter used Josephus as reference. Josephus probably got his information from book 1 of the Sibylline Oracles which was a collection of orations and prophecies muttered by seeresses in a trance but we have little record of who those people were and their predictions were almost always false, but it most likely came from Jewish Midrashim (commentaries) of the Talmud where people assumed the timespan between god deciding everyone was wicked and the flood itself occurred was to warn people. Obviously, the Bible does not support this.

In any event, no official record exists of Noah preaching to anyone, only speculation.

As I and others have stated, even if he did that in no way absolves god from committing mass genocide.



Exactly. You will support any atrocity, even to the level of mass genocide, if god says so.

Tell me, if god came to you right now and commanded you to murder your son, would you do it, Abraham?

How about this, Elisha? Would you side with god if he killed a neighbor boy because he bullied your daughter?

How would you explain to the authorities, Saul, if you invaded a local town god was displeased with and killed every man, woman, and child under god's command?

Could you, Jeremiah, obey and support god if he told you to embargo a city until the occupants turned to cannibalism?

Like I said, you're a terrible person. Worse still, as most wicked people are, you believe yourself to be completely righteous and guided by a higher moral authority.

I've been called worse, by people who actually know me.

Try again.

And you're making claims using "likely" and "probably" which means you're a ignorant speculator who spend the last half hour googling something to support your argument.


You fail.

 

[child of wonder]

What atheist actually believes that any bible is actually the "true word of god"? OTOH, just about any religious person believes their bible is "the true word of god" and for the most part the things brought up in this thread are pretty similar among the different books.

Poor grammar on my part.

Should have worded it better to point out "they" means Christians, not atheists.

 

[Keeper]

Anyone rememebr right after 9/11 when news stations asked their on air reporters to STOP wearing their American Flag pins..... NO ONE FORBID IT. Not even ABC. The did get a bad rap. But it was strongly suggested to continue the long standing practice of "Neutrality".
WTF We are in America....
DO I think that if Joe Blow wears an American Flag pin, and reports the news it MUST be true that what he tells me is supported by the US goverment?
IF I ever get that feeble. PLEASE..... Shoot me.

 

[Juddog]

I've been called worse, by people who actually know me.

Try again.

And your making claims using "likely" and "probably" which means you're a ignorant speculator who spend the last half hour googling something to support your argument.

You fail.

Wow you ignore a huge amount of data and just focus on the one little part. How about you address the meat of the argument instead of acting cowardly, like you're afraid to address the main points?

 

[Juddog]

That means while God doesn't change principles, he's flexible, IMO.

For instance, under the mosaic law, King David was suppose to be killed for taking another mans wife, and orchestrating his murder.

The account indicates that God showed mercy because David 1) recognized his sin, and 2) never repeated it. Psalms (though I forget the chapter and verse) said David was good in Gods eyes.

David was forgiven and didn't die, though he had to rightly suffer consequences for his actions.

LOL God is flexible now? How much bullshit are you going to make up in one thread?

 

[child of wonder]

I've been called worse, by people who actually know me.

Try again.

And you're making claims using "likely" and "probably" which means you're a ignorant speculator who spend the last half hour googling something to support your argument.

You fail.

Can you answer any of my points or am I to take your avoidance of them as acceptance?

It's so sad to witness the ramblings of a slave desperately trying to justify the actions of its cruel and evil master.

 

[Juddog]

Can you answer any of my points or am I to take your avoidance of them as acceptance?

It's so sad to witness the ramblings of a slave desperately trying to justify the actions of its cruel and evil master.

Ultimately you've cornered him intellectually and when he can't think of an answer he just mumbles some bullsh!t and doesn't actually address the points. He's done the exact same thing in numerous posts across several of the sub forums.

It boils down to sheep don't like to think for themselves, they can only follow the herd. In the same way, Rob M. literally cannot think for himself. If it's not written in a book he believes in or told to him by his local pastor or whatever herd-leader he listens to, he's literally incapable of understanding it.

 

[Retro Rob]

LOL God is flexible now? How much bullshit are you going to make up in one thread?

You just ignored the meat of my post, why not address my main point instead of being a coward?

 

[child of wonder]

Ultimately you've cornered him intellectually and when he can't think of an answer he just mumbles some bullsh!t and doesn't actually address the points. He's done the exact same thing in numerous posts across several of the sub forums.

It boils down to sheep don't like to think for themselves, they can only follow the herd. In the same way, Rob M. literally cannot think for himself. If it's not written in a book he believes in or told to him by his local pastor or whatever herd-leader he listens to, he's literally incapable of understanding it.

It's usually pointless arguing with anyone like him, but my wife used to be Mormon before we met and after a lot of conversations and de-brainwashing she finally saw the church for the sham it is.

Even if nothing I say ever convinces another person to question their belief, at least it can be fun in the process.

 

[Retro Rob]

Can you answer any of my points or am I to take your avoidance of them as acceptance?

It's so sad to witness the ramblings of a slave desperately trying to justify the actions of its cruel and evil master.

Come with some.....wait on this.....FACTS! I am only interested in facts.

All you've posted are "probablies" and "likey's", which are not based on anything.

You're arguing against what's written, in Peter, so the burden is on you to bring "facts".

Probably and likely don't mean "it happened" that way.

 

[Juddog]

You just ignored the meat of my post, why not address my main point instead of being a coward?

You are a coward - until you can answer some questions truthfully, you aren't worth paying attention to. What it boils down to is that you're afraid of the truth, and this is what makes you a coward. Who knows - some day you may wake up from being a sheep, but until then, your posts are typically pure garbage and usually go through the same cycle.

You like to say that God is flexible in one post, and that it's "IMO" or "In My Opinion", which basically means you're interpreting things in a way which wasn't meant to be interpreted by the writers of the Bible, but yet in another thread you bash someone else for using "likely" and "probably". You're a hypocrite and a coward and can't even answer an honest question.

If you can't honestly answer questions, then there is no debating with you, you're just a sack of water that thinks they are a special snowflake and that god created the entire universe around a spec of dust which is earth. Complete and utter nonsense. The earth is less than a grain of sand on a beach the size of jupiter, and mankind is nothing in the grand scheme of things, the equivalent of mold feasting on an old piece of stale bread. Yet somehow you have the audacity to think that a loving God created the earth and everything on it in the perfect image, when we have so many clear problems and can't even survive the vacuum of outer space. What a joke you are.

 

[Juddog]

Come with some.....wait on this.....FACTS! I am only interested in facts.

All you've posted are "probablies" and "likey's", which are not based on anything.

You're arguing against what's written, in Peter, so the burden is on you to bring "facts".

LOL arguing facts when it comes to a book of fairy tales!

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHHAHA that's the funniest thing I've read all day!

 

[sandorski]

What if "God" told Hitler to exterminate the Jews? Perhaps the Evolutionary Atheistic hordes suppressed that information from the general public.

Would Hitler still be evil?


Apparently while I was gone the Theistic Morality exposed itself as utterly devoid of any morals whatsoever. The loltastic part being how any form of Objectivity was thrown out the window in favour of the convenience of defensive Subjectivity.

This is why some fly planes into buildings, why some shoot Doctors, why some Christian groups massacred other Christian groups, Mormons did the same as the previous, why Scientists like Galileo and Darwin had reason to fear what they had discovered. The Theist has no firm basis of Morality. What it has instead is a basis to deny Personal Responsibility and to claim an inconsistent god has commanded an action be carried out.

I am not comforted in this thought though. Despite the blatantly obvious fail of Theism that has just occurred. It is almost certain that the theists Faith remains intact. In fact, they probably feel more assured of their positions as ever. Faith is the power of Blindness, even to ones' most obvious failings.

 

[Retro Rob]

LOL arguing facts when it comes to a book of fairy tales!

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHHAHA that's the funniest thing I've read all day!

Yeah, no one argues against Harry potter, but they do argue against the Bible....even writing books about "non existent" Gods.

So who's presenting "facts" against fairy tales?

ATHEISTS!!!

Lol

 

[buckshot24]

You like to say that God is flexible in one post, and that it's "IMO" or "In My Opinion", which basically means you're interpreting things in a way which wasn't meant to be interpreted by the writers of the Bible, but yet in another thread you bash someone else for using "likely" and "probably". You're a hypocrite and a coward and can't even answer an honest question.

Why should anybody take your biblical interpretation seriously?

 

[justoh]

It's usually pointless arguing with anyone like him, but my wife used to be Mormon before we met and after a lot of conversations and de-brainwashing she finally saw the church for the sham it is.

Even if nothing I say ever convinces another person to question their belief, at least it can be fun in the process.

Except the joke's on you, since knowingly pointing out obvious, trivial nonsense to someone thoroughly convinced of the truth behind his delusion is necessarily futile and self serving.

It's a shallow victory when being right is either going to be obvious and trivial or else disregarded by people adamantly opposed to you for no good reason.

Any pleasure would be a guilty pleasure. Guilty people burn in hell. Robby wins.

 

[Juddog]

Yeah, no one argues against Harry potter, but they do argue against the Bible....even writing books about "non existent" Gods.

So who's presenting "facts" against fairy tales?

ATHEISTS!!!

Lol

Finally you admit to the Bible being no different than the Harry Potter books - maybe there is hope for you yet after all.