Atheists Call 9-11 Memorial Cross "Grossly Offensive"

[Retro Rob]

I'll bet you think The Great Flood was totally cool, right? God killing off nearly every living thing is fine since he's god.

No wonder you're an atheist -- you're an idiot!

Noah warns flood is coming for about 50 years, people ignore Noah while clearly watching him build the Ark, and, as Jesus said "they kept eating and drinking until the flood came".

Bu....bu...how dare God warn me of a Great Flood, I ignore this "monster", and when I die, God's the blame!!!!

And guess what, the people who listened (Noah and his family) lived!

Please, educate yourself before making completely stupid and drastically uniformed posts.

 

[Fern]

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

"“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."

You quoted me mentioning this very passage.

Looks like different versions. Here's what bshole quoted above for that passage:

If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. -- Deuteronomy 22:28-29
-snip-

This illustrates something I find both interesting and frustrating: Different English translations from the same (Hebrew?) text.

Fern

 

[JD50]

No wonder you're an atheist -- you're an idiot!

Noah warns flood is coming for about 50 years, people ignore Noah while clearly watching him build the Ark, and, as Jesus said "they kept eating and drinking until the flood came".

Bu....bu...how dare God warn me of a Great Flood, I ignore this "monster", and when I die, God's the blame!!!!

And guess what, the people who listened (Noah and his family) lived!

Please, educate yourself before making completely stupid and drastically uniformed posts.

If someone warns you that they're going to burn down your house next Thursday at midnight, and you still die in the fire, they're still guilty of murder.

I love how Rob thinks that murder is ok as long as the victim is warned ahead of time and that slavery is ok as long as it's regulated.

 

[child of wonder]

No wonder you're an atheist -- you're an idiot!

Noah warns flood is coming for about 50 years, people ignore Noah while clearly watching him build the Ark, and, as Jesus said "they kept eating and drinking until the flood came".

Bu....bu...how dare God warn me of a Great Flood, I ignore this "monster", and when I die, God's the blame!!!!

And guess what, the people who listened (Noah and his family) lived!

Please, educate yourself before making completely stupid and drastically uniformed posts.

First, you've proven my point exactly. Anything god does is fine and dandy in your opinion, including mass genocide. You're a terrible person.

Second, simply warning people they're about to be murdered doesn't absolve the murderer. Try that defense in court if you doubt me.

Lastly, please provide me the Bible verses stating Noah warned anyone of the flood for 50 years and people ignored his warnings.

I can only assume based on your quote you're refering to Luke 17:27 which states nothing of warnings, only that people were "eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark." Looking at the verse in context, it is within Jesus' cautionary tale from Luke 17:20-37 that warns NO ONE can know when the Kingdom of god comes, not that people will be warned.

In fact, Matthew 24:38-39 says:

"For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away."

Which Bible are you reading?

 

[child of wonder]

Looks like different versions. Here's what bshole quoted above for that passage:

This illustrates something I find both interesting and frustrating: Different English translations from the same (Hebrew?) text.

Fern

It frustrates atheists as well since so many only know the Bible in its various English translations, all of which are interpreted differently, yet they're certain the one on their library shelf is "the true word of god."

 

[BlueWolf47]

No wonder you're an atheist -- you're an idiot!

Noah warns flood is coming for about 50 years, people ignore Noah while clearly watching him build the Ark, and, as Jesus said "they kept eating and drinking until the flood came".

Bu....bu...how dare God warn me of a Great Flood, I ignore this "monster", and when I die, God's the blame!!!!

And guess what, the people who listened (Noah and his family) lived!

Please, educate yourself before making completely stupid and drastically uniformed posts.

Ya, because Noah got every single animal, bird, and insect on a boat and had them fuck to repopulate the planet.

 

[Darwin333]

No wonder you're an atheist -- you're an idiot!

Noah warns flood is coming for about 50 years, people ignore Noah while clearly watching him build the Ark, and, as Jesus said "they kept eating and drinking until the flood came".

Bu....bu...how dare God warn me of a Great Flood, I ignore this "monster", and when I die, God's the blame!!!!

And guess what, the people who listened (Noah and his family) lived!

Please, educate yourself before making completely stupid and drastically uniformed posts.

Why in the hell would everyone listen to what someone that any rational person would conclude is batshit crazy? Furthermore, an all knowing god would know that they wouldn't listen so his motives don't really change.

What about personally seeing to the slaughter of untold innocent children?

 

[Darwin333]

LOL -- who cares what you find "unconscionable"?

To be fair, the rest of society, including yourself most likely, find it unconscionable as well.

 

[Retro Rob]

First, you've proven my point exactly. Anything god does is fine and dandy in your opinion, including mass genocide. You're a terrible person.

Second, simply warning people they're about to be murdered doesn't absolve the murderer. Try that defense in court if you doubt me.

Lastly, please provide me the Bible verses stating Noah warned anyone of the flood for 50 years and people ignored his warnings.

I can only assume based on your quote you're refering to Luke 17:27 which states nothing of warnings, only that people were "eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark." Looking at the verse in context, it is within Jesus' cautionary tale from Luke 17:20-37 that warns NO ONE can know when the Kingdom of god comes, not that people will be warned.

In fact, Matthew 24:38-39 says:

"For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away."

Which Bible are you reading?

2 Peter 2:5, indicated he preached.

It also says the people of his [noah's day] were ungodly....so God was right in doing what he did.

Even if I grant you Noah didn't preach, God is the ultimate judge, and can read people's hearts, minds, etc....so regardless if Noah preached or not (which he obviously did), God was the Final Judge.

Call it murder, genocide....so what? You all are entitled to your opinion, and my opinions are God was just, right, and I fully support what he did.

 

[Retro Rob]

Ya, because Noah got every single animal, bird, and insect on a boat and had them fuck to repopulate the planet.

Gotta do whatcha gotta do.

 

[Darwin333]

It frustrates atheists as well since so many only know the Bible in its various English translations, all of which are interpreted differently, yet they're certain the one on their library shelf is "the true word of god."

What atheist actually believes that any bible is actually the "true word of god"? OTOH, just about any religious person believes their bible is "the true word of god" and for the most part the things brought up in this thread are pretty similar among the different books.

 

[Darwin333]

Gotta do whatcha gotta do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5svTzxVa-xQ

Gotta hate math....

 

[Retro Rob]

To be fair, the rest of society, including yourself most likely, find it unconscionable as well.

Education remedies ignorance (not directed at you).

I found it unconscionable until I bothered to do something called "research" and understood the social structures of the time.

 

[JD50]

2 Peter 2:5, indicated he preached.

It also says the people of his [noah's day] were ungodly....so God was right in doing what he did.

Even if I grant you Noah didn't preach, God is the ultimate judge, and can read people's hearts, minds, etc....so regardless if Noah preached or not (which he obviously did), God was the Final Judge.

Call it murder, genocide....so what? You all are entitled to your opinion, and my opinions are God was just, right, and I fully support what he did.

So it's ok to kill someone simply because they are "ungodly?" Now that is disturbing.

 

[JD50]

We need to keep a running list here.

Murder is ok if you're warned ahead of time.
Slavery is ok if it's regulated.
Killing someone because they are "ungodly" is fine.

 

[buckshot24]

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

If you really want to try and figure out what this passage is saying you can't just read the words and make grand conclusions. Who was God saying this to? In what context? Etc. etc.

Bottom line is that this isn't describing sexual slavery.

 

[bshole]

I think what people are trying to point out is that the morals of the God of the Bible seemed to mirror the societies at that time.... almost like he was not a God at all, just another person of that time and space.

During the time of the old testament, animal sacrifice was common across many cultures and religions the Jews were exposed to (it was not unique to the Jews). Same thing with polygamy.

During the time of the new testament, animal sacrifice and polygamy had fallen into disfavor among many the cultures and religions the Jews were exposed to. Lo and behold, the New Testament God now no longer is supportive of these two staples of the Old Testament.

 

[Retro Rob]

So it's ok to kill someone simply because they are "ungodly?" Now that is disturbing.

Saying people in those days were "simply" ungodly is equivalent to saying people today are "simply" unlawful.

 

[buckshot24]

Oh give it a break. I will not engage in the bullshit debate about "objective morality". The only way for morality to be truly objective, especially in any debate with you, is for it to be external.

So you pick and choose as well?

For the rest of civilized humanity we simply know that certain things are wrong. I know that owning another person is wrong. I know that selling my daughter into slavery is wrong. I know that kicking a baby is wrong. I, nor most others, need any external force to know that.

What if every person on earth knew selling your daughter into slavery was right, is it still wrong? On what basis would you argue to somebody who thought it was right that it was actually wrong?

What if this baby was born deformed or mentally retarded, how would you convince the person who says that these less than perfect babies take up too many resources and therefore should be killed? More good would come to more people if our resources were truly limited by getting rid of this imperfect baby. Why is that view wrong in your view?

 

[JD50]

What does this have to do with religion? You don't need religion to have morals, you guys are debating philosophy.

 

[buckshot24]

So it's ok to kill someone simply because they are "ungodly?" Now that is disturbing.

Thank you for your opinion on the matter.

If God exists and he created the universe who are you to tell him anything? Again if God exists then he would know a lot more than you about what really happened. Your knowledge is like one grain of sand on a 1000 mile beach on the subject. You're like a 2 year old who was put to bed for not minding then judging dad for being unfair. You simply have no way to understand what a creator would or should do with his creation.

If God doesn't exist then you might as well complain about Harry Potter.

 

[Retro Rob]

I think what people are trying to point out is that the morals of the God of the Bible seemed to mirror the societies at that time.... almost like he was not a God at all, just another person of that time and space.

During the time of the old testament, animal sacrifice was common across many cultures and religions the Jews were exposed to (it was not unique to the Jews). Same thing with polygamy.

During the time of the new testament, animal sacrifice and polygamy had fallen into disfavor among many the cultures and religions the Jews were exposed to. Lo and behold, the New Testament God now no longer is supportive of these two staples of the Old Testament.

I can agree to some extent, but I think people need to know that as society changes, laws (not principles -- which are NOT subject to time as laws are) change.

For example, "don't touch the stove or you will get burned" is a law that changes as kids get older, but the principle -- stoves can be hot -- never changes.

People seemt to gloss completely over the timeless, elegant truth.

 

[buckshot24]

Why is it wrong? Especially considering your line of "objective morality" questioning, if you get "right and wrong" from the bible then shouldn't it be not only ok but an absolute right?

First thing to consider is that the bible doesn't teach that selling your daughter into sexual slavery is right. That passage doesn't talk about sexual slavery anyway. You've interpreted it that way because you're ignorant of the culture and practices of the society this was addressed to. That isn't the bible's fault, that is your fault.

I am confused.

I would also like to know who determines which parts of the bible are wrong and which parts are right? Did you come to that conclusion on your own or were you taught that by a preacher/parents?

As I've said that this isn't teaching that sexual slavery is right it isn't talking about it at all. For your information I grew up in a church-less home, I was an Atheist until I was around 27. I wasn't brainwashed as you seem to enjoy to continually hint at.

 

[JD50]

Thank you for your opinion on the matter.

If God exists and he created the universe who are you to tell him anything? Again if God exists then he would know a lot more than you about what really happened. Your knowledge is like one grain of sand on a 1000 mile beach on the subject. You're like a 2 year old who was put to bed for not minding then judging dad for being unfair. You simply have no way to understand what a creator would or should do with his creation.

If God doesn't exist then you might as well complain about Harry Potter.

What a cop out. Everything that god does is fine, because he's god. Circular logic at it's finest.

 

[buckshot24]

I can agree to some extent, but I think people need to know that as society changes, laws (not principles -- which are NOT subject to time as laws are) change.

Just imagine if we could establish that X was morally wrong and that it should be illegal to do it. Also X has been ingrained throughout society for many years and many generations. Which of these two ways would be better?

1. Stop all X immediately, jail anybody who provides X and anybody who tries to get X.
2. Restrict certain kinds of X and require xyz before X could be obtained. Then after some years increase the restrictions until eventually X is outlawed completely.

I think its obvious that 2 is the better course of action. I think God meets people where they are at and not where He wants them to be.