Atheists Call 9-11 Memorial Cross "Grossly Offensive"

[Juddog]

Except the joke's on you, since knowingly pointing out obvious, trivial nonsense to someone thoroughly convinced of the truth behind his delusion is necessarily futile and self serving.

It's a shallow victory when being right is either going to be obvious and trivial or else disregarded by people adamantly opposed to you for no good reason.

Any pleasure would be a guilty pleasure. Guilty people burn in hell. Robby wins.

It's not futile; gradually people are starting to wake up that the Bible is a fairy tale, and the more people this happens to, the better society as a whole will be.

 

[Juddog]

Why should anybody take your biblical interpretation seriously?

Why should I take your response seriously when I wasn't trying to interpret the Bible, but only pointing out logical flaws in someone's argument? Maybe you should read the posts in the discussion before jumping to conclusions next time, so you won't sound like such an idiot.

 

[Retro Rob]

Finally you admit to the Bible being no different than the Harry Potter books - maybe there is hope for you yet after all.

Why do Atheists, like you, write "facts" to disprove fairy tales?

lol

Atheists debating the non- existence of God.

You may as well write a book about why Thor doesn't exist, or why Thor is cruel!

lol

 

[JD50]

Why do Atheists, like you, write "facts" to disprove fairy tales?

lol

Atheists debating the non- existence of God.

You may as well write a book about why Thor doesn't exist, or why Thor is cruel!

lol

This has been explained to you multiple times, do you have a problem with memory loss or do you just choose to ignore the explanation?

 

[Juddog]

Why do Atheists, like you, write "facts" to disprove fairy tales?

lol

Atheists debating the non- existence of God.

You may as well write a book about why Thor doesn't exist, or why Thor is cruel!

lol

First of all, you can't prove a negative. That's logic 101. I don't understand why you have such a difficult time in understanding even the basics.

Second your comparison of the Harry Potter books reveals that something in your mind is changing. You stumbled upon something that is fundamental, you just have yet to grasp the entirety of it.

 

[JD50]

What if "God" told Hitler to exterminate the Jews? Perhaps the Evolutionary Atheistic hordes suppressed that information from the general public.

Would Hitler still be evil?


Apparently while I was gone the Theistic Morality exposed itself as utterly devoid of any morals whatsoever. The loltastic part being how any form of Objectivity was thrown out the window in favour of the convenience of defensive Subjectivity.

This is why some fly planes into buildings, why some shoot Doctors, why some Christian groups massacred other Christian groups, Mormons did the same as the previous, why Scientists like Galileo and Darwin had reason to fear what they had discovered. The Theist has no firm basis of Morality. What it has instead is a basis to deny Personal Responsibility and to claim an inconsistent god has commanded an action be carried out.

I am not comforted in this thought though. Despite the blatantly obvious fail of Theism that has just occurred. It is almost certain that the theists Faith remains intact. In fact, they probably feel more assured of their positions as ever. Faith is the power of Blindness, even to ones' most obvious failings.

:thumbsup:

 

[child of wonder]

Yeah, no one argues against Harry potter, but they do argue against the Bible....even writing books about "non existent" Gods.

So who's presenting "facts" against fairy tales?

ATHEISTS!!!

Lol

Now I know you're a troll if you're pulling the "hey atheists! If god isn't real then why do you not believe in him? He has to exist for you not to believe in him! Checkmate, atheists!" argument.

 

[Paul98]

Wow you ignore a huge amount of data and just focus on the one little part. How about you address the meat of the argument instead of acting cowardly, like you're afraid to address the main points?

You are trying to make a simple point and get an answer to it and he keeps on dodging. If you want an answer you need to ask the question as simple as you can. If he ignores continue till he does.

But I wouldn't bother, it's going to end in "I believe what I believe, it's my opinion."

 

[child of wonder]

Why do Atheists, like you, write "facts" to disprove fairy tales?

lol

Atheists debating the non- existence of God.

You may as well write a book about why Thor doesn't exist, or why Thor is cruel!

lol

Get your religion out of our laws and schools, keep it to yourselves, stop lying to your children that the Bible trumps science, and stop trying to tell people that atheists are bad people and we'll happily stop talking about it.

Until then, your brand of ignorance must be combated publicly and ferociously.

 

[justoh]

It's not futile; gradually people are starting to wake up that the Bible is a fairy tale, and the more people this happens to, the better society as a whole will be.

It's not that easy to "convince" people to reject something that they never had any good reason to believe. This way is vain and futile.

Why do you think it can be achieved by arguing obvious biblical incoherence or inconsistency? By arguing ultimately meaningless biblical minutiae that takes for granted his existence anyway?

Honest question.

 

[Retro Rob]

Get your religion out of our laws and schools, keep it to yourselves, stop lying to your children that the Bible trumps science, and stop trying to tell people that atheists are bad people and we'll happily stop talking about it.

Until then, your brand of ignorance must be combated publicly and ferociously.

You said "religion", not God. Religion clearly isn't a fairy tale, I'm sure you've been past a church.

You should fight religion and keep it out of schools, etc -- something I do support and hope you succeed at honestly.

If you can't disprove a negative, stop writing against this "negative" in an attempt to disprove it.

It makes you look silly really, because your idol's book can equally translate "Hermes is not Great" which would make him sound like an idiot.

 

[Juddog]

It's not that easy to "convince" people to reject something that they never had any good reason to believe. This way is vain and futile.

Why do you think it can be achieved by arguing obvious biblical incoherence or inconsistency? By arguing ultimately meaningless biblical minutiae that takes for granted his existence anyway?

Honest question.

My honest answer is that many people I personally know that used to be Christian and eventually changed their minds did so only after fully researching the Bible and seeing the inconsistencies within the book.

At some point after reading the bible several times and taking notes, it becomes clear to the reader:

a) the bible was written by several different people and then "compiled" into one book
b) parts of the bible directly contradict other parts
c) if you look at the logic behind the abrahamic god, as written in the bible, it just doesn't make sense

I started off being taught the bible when I was very young; my grandmother would sit down with me and I would read passages with her, go to church, etc.. I saw that the church itself was a place where people tried to represent the best of themselves, and be good to their neighbors, etc.. That being said, I also began to see the cracks in the teachings; the parts that hold back science from progressing, the various factions which would war with one another for small differences.

When I branched out from study of the Bible to other religions, I saw the same behavior - people using religion as a crutch in some cases, or as a reason to discriminate against people of another religious faction in other cases. For example look at the conflict between the shiites and the sunnis, or the Protestants and the Catholics. I went to Europe and looked at the old church paintings in churches that have been around since hundreds of years before America was formed, to see the roots of Christianity in Rome.

I realized that the Bible was being used as a weapon to oppress portions of society that were the types of people that were gullible and able to be taken advantage of, for the privilege of the few. You can teach people to be good, and to behave themselves, without using organized religion as a crutch.

 

[buckshot24]

What if "God" told Hitler to exterminate the Jews? Perhaps the Evolutionary Atheistic hordes suppressed that information from the general public.

If God did tell Hitler to do that he could let us know about it.

Would Hitler still be evil?

I think the question is irrelevant unless objective morality exists. Everything we know about the event however should lead one to believe that God didn't command Hitler to kill the Jews. However if God did tell Hitler to kill the Jews I'd need some very good information why he would do that.

Apparently while I was gone the Theistic Morality exposed itself as utterly devoid of any morals whatsoever. The loltastic part being how any form of Objectivity was thrown out the window in favour of the convenience of defensive Subjectivity.

First, the objective morality argument doesn't involve actually knowing exactly what they are in every circumstance. This is the basic error Hitchens always fell into.

 

[child of wonder]

You said "religion", not God. Religion clearly isn't a fairy tale, I'm sure you've been past a church.

You should fight religion and keep it out of schools, etc -- something I do support and hope you succeed at honestly.

If you can't disprove a negative, stop writing against this "negative" in an attempt to disprove it.

It makes you look silly really, because your idol's book can equally translate "Hermes is not Great" which would make him sound like an idiot.

We're not asserting a negative. We're using reason and logic to demonstrate the assertion of the positive is not logically consistent with common sense, evidence, observations, science, or, not the least of which, varying scriptures within the same holy book.

 

[Juddog]

If God did tell Hitler to do that he could let us know about it.

I think the question is irrelevant unless objective morality exists. Everything we know about the event however should lead one to believe that God didn't command Hitler to kill the Jews. However if God did tell Hitler to kill the Jews I'd need some very good information why he would do that.
First, the objective morality argument doesn't involve actually knowing exactly what they are in every circumstance. This is the basic error Hitchens always fell into.

If God somehow made a message in the stars that the entire world could see, that he wanted Hitler to kill the jews, would you have been ok with it - yes or no? Simple question, no sidestepping.

 

[child of wonder]

My honest answer is that many people I personally know that used to be Christian and eventually changed their minds did so only after fully researching the Bible and seeing the inconsistencies within the book.

At some point after reading the bible several times and taking notes, it becomes clear to the reader:

a) the bible was written by several different people and then "compiled" into one book
b) parts of the bible directly contradict other parts
c) if you look at the logic behind the abrahamic god, as written in the bible, it just doesn't make sense

I started off being taught the bible when I was very young; my grandmother would sit down with me and I would read passages with her, go to church, etc.. I saw that the church itself was a place where people tried to represent the best of themselves, and be good to their neighbors, etc.. That being said, I also began to see the cracks in the teachings; the parts that hold back science from progressing, the various factions which would war with one another for small differences.

When I branched out from study of the Bible to other religions, I saw the same behavior - people using religion as a crutch in some cases, or as a reason to discriminate against people of another religious faction in other cases. For example look at the conflict between the shiites and the sunnis, or the Protestants and the Catholics. I went to Europe and looked at the old church paintings in churches that have been around since hundreds of years before America was formed, to see the roots of Christianity in Rome.

I realized that the Bible was being used as a weapon to oppress portions of society that were the types of people that were gullible and able to be taken advantage of, for the privilege of the few. You can teach people to be good, and to behave themselves, without using organized religion as a crutch.

Sounds similar to my journey (minus the trips to Europe) even exploring other religions after discarding Christianity. I felt like something had to fill that gaping hole it used to fill.

A Youtube user, Evid3nce, created a great series about his deconversion that is a great watch if you have the time.

 

[JD50]

If God did tell Hitler to do that he could let us know about it.

I think the question is irrelevant unless objective morality exists. Everything we know about the event however should lead one to believe that God didn't command Hitler to kill the Jews. However if God did tell Hitler to kill the Jews I'd need some very good information why he would do that.
First, the objective morality argument doesn't involve actually knowing exactly what they are in every circumstance. This is the basic error Hitchens always fell into.

And who are you to question why god would do that?

 

[Retro Rob]

And who are you to question why god would do that?

Abraham questioned God about destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, and He was totally willing to answer Abraham.

Come again, or better yet, read.

 

[buckshot24]

Why should I take your response seriously when I wasn't trying to interpret the Bible, but only pointing out logical flaws in someone's argument? Maybe you should read the posts in the discussion before jumping to conclusions next time, so you won't sound like such an idiot.

I read your words here.

You like to say that God is flexible in one post, and that it's "IMO" or "In My Opinion", which basically means you're interpreting things in a way which wasn't meant to be interpreted by the writers of the Bible, but yet in another thread you bash someone else for using "likely" and "probably". You're a hypocrite and a coward and can't even answer an honest question.

You're saying that Rob is interpreting the bible incorrectly so you must know how to interpret it correctly.

 

[buckshot24]

If God somehow made a message in the stars that the entire world could see, that he wanted Hitler to kill the jews, would you have been ok with it - yes or no? Simple question, no sidestepping.

No, I'd have a real problem with it.

 

[Retro Rob]

If God somehow made a message in the stars that the entire world could see, that he wanted Hitler to kill the jews, would you have been ok with it - yes or no? Simple question, no sidestepping.

Initially, I personally wouldn't be ok with it, but like Abraham did, I'd ask why.

Sometimes, it's not about how YOU feel about something, it's about the reasons behind it.

 

[Retro Rob]

We're not asserting a negative. We're using reason and logic to demonstrate the assertion of the positive is not logically consistent with common sense, evidence, observations, science, or, not the least of which, varying scriptures within the same holy book.

My point is, why discuss something equivalent to "unicorns"? It takes an idiot to believe in fairy tales, but a bigger idiot to add credence to the fairly tale by titling a book supposedly exposing why the fairy tales isn't "Great"... i'd expect it to be titled "God is not real".

Hitch isn't disputing the existence of God, but whether or not he's great.... judging off just the title alone.

I have yet to read the book, so I was just criticizing the title, while realizing why I cannot judge the book until I read it.

 

[child of wonder]

My point is, why discuss something equivalent to "unicorns"? It takes an idiot to believe in fairy tales, but a bigger idiot to add credence to the fairly tale by titling a book supposedly exposing why the fairy tales isn't "Great"... i'd expect it to be titled "God is not real".

Hitch isn't disputing the existence of God, but whether or not he's great.... judging off just the title alone.

I have yet to read the book, so I was just criticizing the title, while realizing why I cannot judge the book until I read it.

The crux of the book is laid out by its subtitle: "How religion poisons everything."

Most of his attacks are aimed towards theists since deists aren't the ones flying planes into buildings or demanding amendments to the constitution to discriminate against gays.

 

[Retro Rob]

The crux of the book is laid out by its subtitle: "How religion poisons everything."

Most of his attacks are aimed towards theists since deists aren't the ones flying planes into buildings or demanding amendments to the constitution to discriminate against gays.

What "theists" are flying planes into buildings, or have flown planes into buildings?

 

[child of wonder]

What "theists" are flying planes into buildings, or have flown planes into buildings?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks