AT Mobile Kaveri CPU Performance Preview

[AtenRa]

@AtenRa: I think the AMD A10-7300 based models look nice. But I'd like one that is 13", 256+ GB SSD, 1080p+ IPS display, and lower weight (~1.3 kg). Obviously the price will be higher. But have you found any such model?

nope, havent found any 13", those are the early 15.6" Laptops, lets wait and see how things will go. The performance and Battery life from that cheapo ACER is very nice and im sure prices will go down after Back to School season.
I also like to see the performance of the 35W TDP Kaveris, those are the real 15.6" Laptop SKUs.

 

[AtenRa]

AtenRa one thing you need to accept is that AMD execution is below par. Their CPU division products seem to be rushed out the door. Marketing team jumps the gun all the time putting pressure on the factory side.

I have already told them more than a year ago

 

[TrulyUncouth]

This is a disaster. Even with a 12% larger battery it cant even reach 3/4 of the battery life of intel during typical usage scenarios. You can get a vivobook with a i5-4200U for $349. You can get a surface pro 2 for $450 (@ Staples). What market is AMD even serving here? Even an i5 equipped macbook air is only $200 more than this.

Where can you get the Surface Pro 2 for 450? I've looked after seeing your post but can't find it- I am genuinely curious, please let me know if this deal actually exists.

 

[monstercameron]

@AtenRa: I think the AMD A10-7300 based models look nice. But I'd like one that is 13", 256+ GB SSD, 1080p+ IPS display, and lower weight (~1.3 kg). Obviously the price will be higher. But have you found any such model?

http://h71016.www7.hp.com/MiddleFra...=3804&BaseId=44408&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=

it is expensive as f*$k though...

 

[monstercameron]

Where can you get the Surface Pro 2 for 450? I've looked after seeing your post but can't find it- I am genuinely curious, please let me know if this deal actually exists.

ebay...

 

[AtenRa]

http://h71016.www7.hp.com/MiddleFra...=3804&BaseId=44408&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=

it is expensive as f*$k though...

ehm, this is a business Laptop

2k with the 1080p touch monitor, not bad

 

[TrulyUncouth]

ebay...

haha, I don't want someone's used surface. He said it was on sale at staples for $450, which would imply new. I've continued looking with no luck and think he may have just been exaggerating to try and make a point. Just bought the new S model of the T100 this morning but if I could get surface 2 for 450 I would consider returning it.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I get it you had to find something negative to say but for the price that Laptop has exceptional performance and Battery life and you know it.

Dont take my word for it. Read the conclusion of the very same review that monstercameron linked:

The single-thread performance is and remains with Kaveri an evident weakness of the AMD processors. As the stress test shows remains to be seen whether one has done with the limitation of only 19 watts TDP, the quad-core and the relatively strong GPU must share a favor. The in relation to the power to high power consumption , which is masked by a stronger battery in the test device can be, at least not bode well.

Just like almost every other APU, mediocre at best cpu performance, good gpu performance (relatively) but not really enough for gaming of demanding titles, and high power consumption. Honestly, I dont know why an AMD supporter would even link that review.

 

[USER8000]

There appears to be LOADs of price dumping in the US. Laptops in the UK with the Core i5 4200U are at around £400 to £500 on average. It appears in Germany even with similar VAT to the UK prices for the A10 7300 based laptops are starting at just under £400.

This Lenovo comes with an SSHD and is around £400:

http://skinflint.co.uk/eu/lenovo-z50-75-80ec001ege-a1139284.html

This Acer comes with an R7 265M graphics card in addition to the IGP for around £400(needs a copy of Windows for around £50 though):

http://skinflint.co.uk/eu/acer-aspire-e5-551g-t7gr-nx-mleeg-004-a1124747.html

That is not bad gaming ability for the price and I know FAR more people running games or wanting to run games on their laptops, than rendering or running video encoding, especially if they are spending less than £500.

Just like almost every other APU, mediocre at best cpu performance, good gpu performance (relatively) but not really enough for gaming of demanding titles, and high power consumption. Honestly, I dont know why an AMD supporter would even link that review.

You are talking about a £400 laptop and a 15.6" one at that. Nobody apart from dorks on internet hardware forums would be rendering or running massive amounts of video encoding on a sub £400 laptop.

FFS,I wrote documents many 100s of pages long on a flipping single core Pentium M with 1GB of RAM under XP with a crappy Intel IGP,and that includes work which needed to be published. That also included preparing figures and doing some excel and powerpoint stuff.

It appears in Germany the very same Acer with a R7 265M in Crossfire with the A10 IGP(same uarch) is around £400(plus around £50 for a copy of Windiws),so its going to be pretty effective for the price. BTW,that is not the model they tested,ie,it lacks the second card.

On top of this the Lenovo equivalent is running an SSHD,which means the system is snappier than one using a normal HDD.

Maybe in the US you get loads of price dumped Intel based products,but over here we seem not to.

 

[monstercameron]

Dont take my word for it. Read the conclusion of the very same review that monstercameron linked:

The single-thread performance is and remains with Kaveri an evident weakness of the AMD processors. As the stress test shows remains to be seen whether one has done with the limitation of only 19 watts TDP, the quad-core and the relatively strong GPU must share a favor. The in relation to the power to high power consumption , which is masked by a stronger battery in the test device can be, at least not bode well.

Just like almost every other APU, mediocre at best cpu performance, good gpu performance (relatively) but not really enough for gaming of demanding titles, and high power consumption. Honestly, I dont know why an AMD supporter would even link that review.

all press is good press, besides what is happening lately to discuss?

as for the results, it is clearly throttling. Throttling doesn't mean the is apu bad, it is the system. We saw the same situation unfold with the v5-122p [~20W load vs samsung series 9 lite ~14W load using the 16-1450]

http://notebookspec.com/acer-aspire-e15-e5-551g-a-10-r7-m265-review/244606/

at 3gz ST turbo it should be hitting higher in C-R11.5

 

[AtenRa]

Dont take my word for it. Read the conclusion of the very same review that monstercameron linked:

The single-thread performance is and remains with Kaveri an evident weakness of the AMD processors. As the stress test shows remains to be seen whether one has done with the limitation of only 19 watts TDP, the quad-core and the relatively strong GPU must share a favor. The in relation to the power to high power consumption , which is masked by a stronger battery in the test device can be, at least not bode well.

Just like almost every other APU, mediocre at best cpu performance, good gpu performance (relatively) but not really enough for gaming of demanding titles, and high power consumption. Honestly, I dont know why an AMD supporter would even link that review.

EDIT : after jj109 has pointed out i revised the post using the ACER TravelMate P255-M-54204G50Mnss

Lets see again the prices and realize you are only focusing on the negative to downplay the overall package.

So, we are in Europe and we want a new 15.6" Laptop at the performance of Core i5 4200U. Lets see what we can find.

Aspire E5-551-T8X3 Kaveri Laptop
CPU: AMD A10-7300, 4x 1.90GHz • RAM: 8GB • HDD: 500GB HDD • optical drive: DVD+/-RW DL • Graphics: AMD Radeon R6 (IGP), HDMI • Display: 15.6", 1366x768, non-glare • Connectors: 1x USB 3.0, 2x USB 2.0, Gb LAN • Wireless: WLAN 802.11b/g/n, Bluetooth 4.0 • Card Readers: 5in1 • Webcam: 0.9 megapixels • Operating System: Windows 8.1 64bit • Battery: Li-Ion, 6 cells, 5000mAh • Weight: 2.50kg • Special features: keypad • Warranty: two years

PRICE = Euros 499

Review link

Acer TravelMate P255-M-54204G50Mnss Core i5 4200U Laptop
CPU: Intel Core i5-4200U, 2x 1.60GHz • RAM: 4GB • HDD: 500GB HDD • optical drive: DVD+/-RW DL • Graphics: Intel HD Graphics 4400 (IGP), HDMI • Display: 15.6", 1366x768, non-glare • Connectors: 1x USB 3.0, 2x USB 2.0, Gb LAN • Wireless: WLAN 802.11b/g/n, Bluetooth 4.0 • Operating System: Windows 8 Pro 64bit and Windows 7 Professional 64bit • Battery: Li-Ion, 4 cells, 2500mAh • Weight: 2.35kg • Special features: keypad • Warranty: one year

PRICE = Euros 597,95

Review link

Now we know the performance of each of those but lets have a look at the Battery life.

Battery Life

Idle
A10-7300 = 8h 01m
Core i5 4200U = 6h 29m

WiFi Surfing
A10-7300 = 4h 40m
Core i5 4200U = 5h 09m

DVD
A10-7300 = 3h 20m
Core i5 4200U = (unfortunately no numbers here)

Load Max
A10-7300 = 2h 00m
Core i5 4200U = 1h 12m

Hell you spend ~100 Euros more for the Core i5 4200U to only have higher single thread performance for 2014 applications and lower Battery Life.
Not only that, but for 105 Euros you can install a 250GB Samsung EVO SSD that will dramatically change the user experience in favor of the Kaveri Laptop negating the higher Single Thread performance of the Core i5 4200U, increase Battery Life a little bit more and still have almost the same price than having the Core i5 4200U Laptop.
Add the higher iGPU performance that allows you to play almost every game at least at 1024x768 and you have a much better all around Laptop than the Core i5 and at a lower price (including the SSD).

Now you can still focus on the single thread performance but Im sure anyone would get the Kaveri + SSD over that Core i5 + HDD at the same price.

Edit 2: The core i5 only has 4GB of Memory when Kaveri Laptop has 8GBs. If you change to SSD you also have a 500GB extra HDD that can be used as an external disk over USB-3.

 

[jj109]

So why is the comparison between a consumer laptop and a business laptop valid when it favors the AMD laptop but not the other way around?

 

[AtenRa]

So why is the comparison between a consumer laptop and a business laptop valid when it favors the AMD laptop but not the other way around?

Ahh hell, i wanted to compare it to the Acer TravelMate P255-M-54204G50Mnss
I will revise my post, thanks for pointed out

Edit: i know this one still applies to business but it is the cheapest Core i5 4200U i can find in Europe. If you can find any other model cheaper than that plz post it.

 

[AtenRa]

OK i have also found the HP 350 G1 with Core i5 4200U at 564 Euros and according to the HP site it has a 41Wh 6-cell Battery so it will have higher Battery Life than those ACERs.

Ill try to find a review and post the results.

 

[TrulyUncouth]

Thanks for doing the legwork on that. Definitely makes a strong case for the kaveri over haswell in that bracket. My big question is why in the hell we haven't seen ~35W kaveri?

I really want to like AMD in this space, but seriously why are they always so late on releases? If they had come out with Kaveri in laptops 9 or even 6 months ago they would have had a purchase from me. They seem to be perpetually a day late.

EDIT : after jj109 has pointed out i revised the post using the ACER TravelMate P255-M-54204G50Mnss

Lets see again the prices and realize you are only focusing on the negative to downplay the overall package.

So, we are in Europe and we want a new 15.6" Laptop at the performance of Core i5 4200U. Lets see what we can find.*Snip*
Edit 2: The core i5 only has 4GB of Memory when Kaveri Laptop has 8GBs. If you change to SSD you also have a 500GB extra HDD that can be used as an external disk over USB-3.

 

[AtenRa]

Thanks for doing the legwork on that. Definitely makes a strong case for the kaveri over haswell in that bracket. My big question is why in the hell we haven't seen ~35W kaveri?

I really want to like AMD in this space, but seriously why are they always so late on releases? If they had come out with Kaveri in laptops 9 or even 6 months ago they would have had a purchase from me. They seem to be perpetually a day late.

Well for the first time in the last two or more years, Mobile Kaveri laptops only took one month (maybe a little more) to arrive in retail after the official Mobile Kaveri release in June. I believe this will continue here after as AMD products become more in line with what OEMs (now corporate as well) are looking for (low power cheap and high performance as possible).

 

[alexruiz]

http://h71016.www7.hp.com/MiddleFra...=3804&BaseId=44408&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=

it is expensive as f*$k though...

If you try to configure it is awfully expensive, but they already have prebuilt SKUs:

http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTE...se?CatalogCategoryID=W9MQ7EN6WsMAAAFFdu4Rvdw5

The one we want is the last one (J5N82UT) and it is only $1250.

Pros:
Kaveri A10
12.5in size
1920 x 1080 IPS screen (touch is a bonus, but the FHD IPS is the main attraction)
backlit keyboard

Cons:
It has only 4GB DDR3 (easily fixable by yourself)
SSD includes is SATA, no mSATa or M.2.
No esata (con for me)
Only 7mm HDDs supported (con for me at last)
No expresscard

It has a M.2 slot, but we don't yet if a M.2 SSD would work.
I have the 2 generations prior HP AMD business laptop (Probook 6475b with A10-4600M "Trinity") and some SKUs had mSATA that while officially not supported for SSD, it was possible to have a SSD in there and boot from the SSD. I am hoping the M.2 slot in the 725 G2 is the same story


Alex

 

[Enigmoid]

Kaveri ULV review

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Aspire-E5-551-T8X3-Kaveri-A10-7300-Notebook-Review.122063.0.html

GPU is nowhere near as good as expected, CPU is abyssmal. Barely faster than Kabini with CB 11.5 0.49 single, 1.74 multi.

Throttles like mad under load. Energy consumption is nothing spectacular.

GPU performance is seriously bad. Either its extremely TDP limited or the drivers need to be updated.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphic-Cards.13849.0.html

Better than HD 4400 but not as good as HD 4600 (mobile). Was expecting the chip to at least match HD 4600.

 

[USER8000]

Kaveri ULV review

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Aspire-E5-551-T8X3-Kaveri-A10-7300-Notebook-Review.122063.0.html

GPU is nowhere near as good as expected, CPU is abyssmal. Barely faster than Kabini with CB 11.5 0.49 single, 1.74 multi.

Throttles like mad under load. Energy consumption is nothing spectacular.

GPU performance is seriously bad. Either its extremely TDP limited or the drivers need to be updated.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphic-Cards.13849.0.html

Better than HD 4400 but not as good as HD 4600 (mobile). Was expecting the chip to at least match HD 4600.

So you are comparing a low TDP part to full TDP Intel parts??

Emm,why don't you put the HD5000 results in there too?

From the second link.

The HD4400 and HD5000 are in TDP limited parts like the IGP in the A10 7300.

HD5000

Watch Dogs

18.1(low)
11.6(medium)

Thief


11.9(low)
8.4(medium)

Call of Duty: Ghosts

24(low)
20.5(medium)

DOTA2

59.6(low)
31.5(medium)

BioShock Infinite

34.31(low)
20.49(medium)

Tomb Raider

53.9(low)
27.5(medium)

Crysis 3

20.89(low)
12.98(medium)

Hitman: Absolution

22.3(low)
15.7(medium)

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

29.5(low)
18.4(medium)

The HD5000 is not always faster than the HD4400 despite both being in ULV parts.

 

[AtenRa]

nvm

 

[ShintaiDK]

Kaveri ULV review

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Aspire-E5-551-T8X3-Kaveri-A10-7300-Notebook-Review.122063.0.html

GPU is nowhere near as good as expected, CPU is abyssmal. Barely faster than Kabini with CB 11.5 0.49 single, 1.74 multi.

Throttles like mad under load. Energy consumption is nothing spectacular.

GPU performance is seriously bad. Either its extremely TDP limited or the drivers need to be updated.

One has to wonder if AMD again have been creative with the TDP. Or the laptop design is just bad. The result is for sure a complete disaster.

PCMark 7 simulates common application scenarios under names like Lightweight ("idle", browsing, typing, etc.), Work or Storage. The total score provides a rough overview: With just 1723 points, our review sample reaps in the worst score of all laptops tested in the past eight months.

Wow....

 

[AtenRa]

One has to wonder if AMD again have been creative with the TDP. Or the laptop design is just bad. The result is for sure a complete disaster.

If this 499 euro laptop that is faster than Intel HD5000 in the majority of games is a disaster then what is Intels HD5000 laptops that cost more than double ??

 

[bullzz]

@Enigmoid - i think HD4400 is the mobile part and 4600 desktop one

@USER8000 - comparing ur HD5000 numbers with that of Kaveri, I see a max 5fps difference in specific games. not bad I would think. frame times would give a better idea

 

[Sweepr]

Kaveri ULV review

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Aspire-E5-551-T8X3-Kaveri-A10-7300-Notebook-Review.122063.0.html

GPU is nowhere near as good as expected, CPU is abyssmal. Barely faster than Kabini with CB 11.5 0.49 single, 1.74 multi.

Throttles like mad under load. Energy consumption is nothing spectacular.

GPU performance is seriously bad. Either its extremely TDP limited or the drivers need to be updated.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphic-Cards.13849.0.html

Better than HD 4400 but not as good as HD 4600 (mobile). Was expecting the chip to at least match HD 4600.

I can't believe that's one of their fastest ULV 19W quad-core parts (384 cores iGPU). If those numbers actually represent mobile Kaveri's performance then AMD better make some very creative PCMark 8 marketing slides.
+1 year old 15W Haswell parts destroy it CPU-wise and hold up pretty well GPU-wise, lets see what Broadwell does.

Here's a quick CB11.5 comparison:

- Atom Z3770 (2013 Tablet chip): 0.4 / 1.47 pt
- Core i5 4200U (mid 2013 15W ''U Series'' chip): 1.15 / 2.45 pts

 

[ninaholic37]

FFS,I wrote documents many 100s of pages long on a flipping single core Pentium M with 1GB of RAM under XP with a crappy Intel IGP,and that includes work which needed to be published. That also included preparing figures and doing some excel and powerpoint stuff.

How much % faster do think the A10-7300 machine would be over this?