Asking Ryan Smith of AT if a special examination could be done?

[Silverforce11]

I knew TR's article was completely rubbish when they reversed the performance lead on 7950 to be a huge perf loss to the 660ti. Getting massive stutters in single gpu when it never occurred in other review sites is icing on their crap-cake.

 

[Keysplayr]

Hitman Absolution frametimes. Same level and settings as the TR article. I even matched the path they took through the level.

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.7 GHz
16 GB DDR 1886 RAM
HD 7970 VTX3D X-Edition underclocked to 900/1250 to match 7950 in TR article (950/1250).
Windows 7 64 bit Pro
12.11 b11 with Cap 2
Res: 1920x1080
RadeonPro not running at all.
All in game settings the same as in TR article. CCC settings = vsync off and all others at default.

I have to say that my results differ massively as those on TR. No excessive stutters at all.

Sorry man. They are TechReport, and you are ICDP. You have shown incredible AMD bias in your short stint here so we'll be smarter to take TR's words on this. You don't see me plotting graphs and posting them, do you? Nope. And I won't because I have a bias toward Nvidia and everyone here knows it.

 

[ICDP]

Sorry man. They are TechReport, and you are ICDP. You have shown incredible AMD bias in your short stint here so we'll be smarter to take TR's words on this. You don't see me plotting graphs and posting them, do you? Nope. And I won't because I have a bias toward Nvidia and everyone here knows it.

Then you haven't read my other thread where I tested Skyrim and found identical results to the TR article. I also stated the following.

"I was adamant that this whole stutter issue was all a load of BS because my own experience did not echo that of TechReport. In hindsight the subconscious reason for my stance was that I never use CCC to setup my game profiles for my AMD cards. I now realise in hindsight that is a fallacious data source to base my judgement on."

Or this quote from an AMD fanboy who clearly is incapable of seeing when he is wrong.

"From test 1 it is clear that with these settings the stutter is unacceptable. When playing at these settings Skyrim is unplayable. This would I assume be the default setting used in any reviews and mirrors the findings of TechReport form their HD 7950 test."

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2289641

But it's nice to see how you have admitted to only accepting information that matches your agenda.

 

[Vesku]

Any other programs that record frame time (ms) other than FRAPs and MSI Afterburner Hardware Monitor?

 

[Keysplayr]

Then you haven't read my other thread where I tested Skyrim and found identical results to the TR article. I also stated the following.

"I was adamant that this whole stutter issue was all a load of BS because my own experience did not echo that of TechReport. In hindsight the subconscious reason for my stance was that I never use CCC to setup my game profiles for my AMD cards. I now realise in hindsight that is a fallacious data source to base my judgement on."

Or this quote from an AMD fanboy who clearly is incapable of seeing when he is wrong.

"From test 1 it is clear that with these settings the stutter is unacceptable. When playing at these settings Skyrim is unplayable. This would I assume be the default setting used in any reviews and mirrors the findings of TechReport form their HD 7950 test."

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2289641

But it's nice to see how you have admitted to only accepting information that matches your agenda.

No I haven't, and it doesn't matter. What I said still stands.

 

[ICDP]

Yeah, of course it doesn't, at least not from a paid Nvidia shill who's only purpose is to be a troll with a clear biased agenda. I'm not even sure why I responded to you, my posts were aimed at those who are not (or try not to be) biased towards a company that doesn't give a [redacted] we as individuals exist.

No profanity in the tech forums
-ViRGE

 

[Keysplayr]

Yeah, of course it doesn't, at least not from a paid Nvidia shill who's only purpose it to be a troll with a clear biased agenda. I'm not even sure why I responded to you, my posts were aimed at those who are not (or try not to be) biased towards a company that doesn't give a [redacted] you are alive.

To me it was a setup. You post something positive about TR saying they may have been right, only later to post a graph to show them utterly wrong, hoping that people would think you were willing to accept that TR was right in the beginning, only to show them wrong later. Bait and switch tactic. Kind of like you posting the Hitman graph showing "massive" differences from TR's findings. And of course your "massive" differences show in AMD's favor. Only reinforces what I am saying. I'm sorry man. We just can't just as any graphs that I post, you wouldn't be able to accept. So, I am not. I'll leave it to the Big Guys at the review sites who are willing to examine this situation.

 

[ICDP]

I knew TR's article was completely rubbish when they reversed the performance lead on 7950 to be a huge perf loss to the 660ti. Getting massive stutters in single gpu when it never occurred in other review sites is icing on their crap-cake.

Weather you like TR or not their review did raise enough questions that we have a very long thread about it here. I wouldn't call their results complete rubbish, Skyrim at default CCC settings is unplayable even with vsync enabled. To get decent stutter free gaming flip queue size needs to be set to 1, and that is only possible with RadeonPro.

I would like to see the following options added to CCC for 3D graphics configuration.

Adaptive Vsync equivalent
Triple Buffering for DirectX games
Flip Queue Size adjustment
An ability to set a manual FPS cap

Just these four options would give AMD user so much more flexibility with their games.

 

[ICDP]

To me it was a setup. You post something positive about TR saying they may have been right, only later to post a graph to show them utterly wrong, hoping that people would think you were willing to accept that TR was right in the beginning, only to show them wrong later. Bait and switch tactic. Kind of like you posting the Hitman graph showing "massive" differences from TR's findings. And of course your "massive" differences show in AMD's favor. Only reinforces what I am saying. I'm sorry man. We just can't just as any graphs that I post, you wouldn't be able to accept. So, I am not. I'll leave it to the Big Guys at the review sites who are willing to examine this situation.

On the contrary, not everything is a conspiracy. No need to attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity (or in my case ignorance). I tested Skyrim first and honestly expected there to be no problems. When I removed my RadeonPro Skyrim profile from the equation I was presented with an absolute stuttery mess. When I loaded up Hitman AB to do the same tests I didn't know what to expect. If you want to believe I have an agenda go right ahead. I have changed my opinion based on evidence and my own recent testing. That is what normal rational people do when presented with new evidence.

 

[Keysplayr]

On the contrary, not everything is a conspiracy. No need to attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity (or in my case ignorance). I tested Skyrim first and honestly expected there to be no problems. When I removed my RadeonPro Skyrim profile from the equation I was presented with an absolute stuttery mess. When I loaded up Hitman AB to do the same tests I didn't know what to expect.

I am totally grateful for your contributions, however, going by your intense support of AMD since you joined, you cannot blame me for my skepticism. Can you? Just as I would not expect you to take my findings. I do hope you understand that we need professional review sites to examine this situation. I've emailed a few other sites editors about it, and I hope Ryan Smith takes up the challenge here at Anandtech sooner than later.

 

[ICDP]

I am totally grateful for your contributions, however, going by your intense support of AMD since you joined, you cannot blame me for my skepticism. Can you?

No I honestly can't blame you, or anyone else for adopting this attitude given the content of my posts. I'm not sucking up to anyone, just admitting I was wrong in my initial assumptions.

I do hope you understand that we need professional review sites to examine this situation. I've emailed a few other sites editors about it, and I hope Ryan Smith takes up the challenge here at Anandtech sooner than later.

I now agree that more data is required. My testing of 12.7 and 12.11 drivers showed no difference in this behavior using Skyrim. So I don't think it is the new drivers. My findings lead me to suspect it is is an individual game profiles issue (CAPS). Time will tell, I hope AMD get a solution sooner rather than later.

 

[cmdrdredd]

TR did test HD7970Ghz vs. GTX680 and 680 showed more stutter in previous testing. No one on the forums or online raised a storm about it though. Why is that? Because we know stutter happens depending on the game/game engine. In the same review HD7970 925mhz tied an overclocked 670

Old drivers dude. I remember you specifically telling everyone reviews using old drivers don't matter and only when using the newest drivers with the newest fixes should count. Now all the sudden this is relevant? It's from June...

It wasn't an issue then so much since the review was of the 7970Ghz edition and not an investigation into microstutter.

 

[Keysplayr]

After listening to the TR Podcast, I can say that Scott Wasson stated that the 12.8 drivers didn't give as high framerates as the 12.11s, but the latency issues were still there. Might even have to go back further than the 12.8's.

 

[3DVagabond]

After listening to the TR Podcast, I can say that Scott Wasson stated that the 12.8 drivers didn't give as high framerates as the 12.11s, but the latency issues were still there. Might even have to go back further than the 12.8's.

So are you giving up the position that AMD is cheating with the 12.11's?

 

[Keysplayr]

So are you giving up the position that AMD is cheating with the 12.11's?

You mean my speculation that AMD sacrificed quality gameplay for framerates? No, why? It just tells me that what they did with the 12.8s, they did further with the 12.11s. Isn't that what it tells you? Doesn't it speak to you?

Heck, we might even have to go back to the 6970!!

 

[KingFatty]

Is the TR Podcast providing results for anything other than Skyrim?

I appreciate that drivers could be at fault, but the behavior could also be explained by the game itself right, if the anomalous results are only shown for a single game? Why don't they dispel any thoughts like this by testing perhaps some game other than Skyrim?

 

[lavaheadache]

You mean my speculation that AMD sacrificed quality gameplay for framerates? No, why? It just tells me that what they did with the 12.8s, they did further with the 12.11s. Isn't that what it tells you? Doesn't it speak to you?

Heck, we might even have to go back to the 6970!!

c'mon man, what has gotten into you lately. Did you get bitten by a rabid animal or something?

I could give a crap who's card is in my rig. Don't you think if I felt like I was getting the short end of the stick I would be bitching and moaning about it? I can confirm Skyrim stutters. But Skyrim has always had stutters. I can confirm Far Cry 3 stutters but that also seems to be par for the course too. That's it. Nadda, Zip.

I play a lot of games and am not seeing what you are crapping your pants about and I am an avid smoooooth supporter. I have been on a soap box about things like microstutter, frame caps and vsync since those terms have been terms. Heck I even push 120hz displays because I believe they are *soO much smoother. I can say with confidence that I don't think there is the kind of monkey business going on that you are ranting about.

 

[ocre]

So are you giving up the position that AMD is cheating with the 12.11's?

i would. Its not a 12.11 issue as far as the pod cast says.


it also claims that the older skyrim benchmarks were in town, whiterun. The later test are not.

 

[Keysplayr]

c'mon man, what has gotten into you lately. Did you get bitten by a rabid animal or something?

I could give a crap who's card is in my rig. Don't you think if I felt like I was getting the short end of the stick I would be bitching and moaning about it? I can confirm Skyrim stutters. But Skyrim has always had stutters. I can confirm Far Cry 3 stutters but that also seems to be par for the course too. That's it. Nadda, Zip.

I play a lot of games and am not seeing what you are crapping your pants about and I am an avid smoooooth supporter. I have been on a soap box about things like microstutter, frame caps and vsync since those terms have been terms. Heck I even push 120hz displays because I believe they are *soO much smoother. I can say with confidence that I don't think there is the kind of monkey business going on that you are ranting about.

Then what can I say lava. It's all made up lies and you are right.

 

[lavaheadache]

Then what can I say lava. It's all made up lies and you are right.

I'm not trying to get a dismissal out of you. What do you know that you aren't saying? Did somebody at nVidia put a bug in your ear about this and now you are pushing the issue trying to get people to stumble onto something by themselves.

Have you gotten yourself a 7970 yet to o your own testing like you stated you were doing, well you said you were shopping for one. I have had a 680 and didn't notice a difference in every day gaming, well except that the overclocking left a lot to be desired.

 

[thilanliyan]

You mean my speculation that AMD sacrificed quality gameplay for framerates? No, why? It just tells me that what they did with the 12.8s, they did further with the 12.11s. Isn't that what it tells you? Doesn't it speak to you?

Heck, we might even have to go back to the 6970!!

I'm with lava on this one...what's gotten into you?

The way you are talking right now is going beyond a "little" paranoia keys. This is more like a crusade...only I don't really see that you will gain anything out of it whatever the outcome. I think it would be smart to leave speculation out of it and as you said "let the reviewers handle it".

 

[Keysplayr]

I'm not trying to get a dismissal out of you. What do you know that you aren't saying? Did somebody at nVidia put a bug in your ear about this and now you are pushing the issue trying to get people to stumble onto something by themselves.

Have you gotten yourself a 7970 yet to o your own testing like you stated you were doing, well you said you were shopping for one. I have had a 680 and didn't notice a difference in every day gaming, well except that the overclocking left a lot to be desired.

Nobody at Nvidia put a bug anywhere. But you know i can say this till I'm out of air and it's not believable, so why bother saying it?
Anyway, there isn't anything that I "know" about that I'm hiding. I just want this out in the open. If the big question that everyone is thinking is "WHY" do I want it out in the open, well duh, who wouldn't?

If I appear like I've been bitten by a rabid snuffleuppagus, it's probably due to the original thread crappers. Crap leaves a really bad taste in ones mouth and it's not easily forgotten. So, I'm on the defensive. On the lookout for BS and my god there is palunty.

So, basically If AMD doesn't deserve the performance "crown" then they shouldn't have it. If TR or H didn't mention any of this there is a good chance nobody else would have bothered. So, AMD (my speculation) bet on all review sites sticking to the standard fps rules benchmarks.
Well, it looks like that era is over now. You know TR will be doing this every review now. As will H probably.

On the other hand, if AMD can release a fix for the latency and still maintain high framerates (and I don't think they can, but that is just my speculation) then they fully deserve the single GPU performance crown.

As per Scott Wasson, AMD is looking into it as it raised some internal flags.
So lava, if one is poked with a stick enough, the pokee could very become the poker. As you have seen.

 

[chimaxi83]

c'mon man, what has gotten into you lately. Did you get bitten by a rabid animal or something?

I could give a crap who's card is in my rig. Don't you think if I felt like I was getting the short end of the stick I would be bitching and moaning about it? I can confirm Skyrim stutters. But Skyrim has always had stutters. I can confirm Far Cry 3 stutters but that also seems to be par for the course too. That's it. Nadda, Zip.

I play a lot of games and am not seeing what you are crapping your pants about and I am an avid smoooooth supporter. I have been on a soap box about things like microstutter, frame caps and vsync since those terms have been terms. Heck I even push 120hz displays because I believe they are *soO much smoother. I can say with confidence that I don't think there is the kind of monkey business going on that you are ranting about.

It's pretty simple, actually. It's his job to either

1. Gloat anywhere and everywhere, to anyone who will hear or read it, when Nvidia is in the lead.

Or

2. Complain anywhere and everywhere, to anyone who will hear or read it, when Nvidia is not in the lead.

I think what's going on now is to be expected. In my opinion though, until there's a general consensus across a majority of the sites most of us reference for reviews and opinions, this thread and this wannabe crusade can be dismissed as fanboy ramblings.

 

[3DVagabond]

You mean my speculation that AMD sacrificed quality gameplay for framerates? No, why? It just tells me that what they did with the 12.8s, they did further with the 12.11s. Isn't that what it tells you? Doesn't it speak to you?

Heck, we might even have to go back to the 6970!!

When the 12.11's came out you speculated that the performance increase over 12.8 was because they were cheating. Originally you suggested it might be with AA. After the TR results you suggested they gave up smoothness for performance.

Now you want to go all the way back to the 6970? If we do, then taking TR's results, the 6970 stuttered worse than the 7950 and the 570 would have triggered epileptic fits.

 

[Keysplayr]

I'm with lava on this one...what's gotten into you?

The way you are talking right now is going beyond a "little" paranoia keys. This is more like a crusade...only I don't really see that you will gain anything out of it whatever the outcome. I think it would be smart to leave speculation out of it and as you said "let the reviewers handle it".

See explanation above. You want a list of what's gotten into me, PM me.