Asking Ryan Smith of AT if a special examination could be done?

[boxleitnerb]

3 or 4 GPUs are only smoother because you are more CPU bottlenecked with them. And that leads to the CPU dictating the frametime deltas, making it smooth(er).

 

[omeds]

3 or 4 GPUs are only smoother because you are more CPU bottlenecked with them. And that leads to the CPU dictating the frametime deltas, making it smooth(er).

True, but even when using heavily GPU limited settings 3 gpu's is generally smoother than 2.

 

[Final8ty]

3 or 4 GPUs are only smoother because you are more CPU bottlenecked with them. And that leads to the CPU dictating the frametime deltas, making it smooth(er).

Some of it is down to that but also there is more time for each GPU to be fully ready.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I've actually heard that 3x is better than 4x, however I never really looked into the claims as I never saw myself seriously consider anything more than 2x.

I mean maybe if 3x truly is that much better I might consider it, but that's a pretty hefty increase in cost...

 

[Final8ty]

I've actually heard that 3x is better than 4x, however I never really looked into the claims as I never saw myself seriously consider anything more than 2x.

I mean maybe if 3x truly is that much better I might consider it, but that's a pretty hefty increase in cost...

3 is meant to be the sweet spot.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

3 is meant to be the sweet spot.

but 7 is the most powerful number in magic

 

[omeds]

I've actually heard that 3x is better than 4x, however I never really looked into the claims as I never saw myself seriously consider anything more than 2x.

I mean maybe if 3x truly is that much better I might consider it, but that's a pretty hefty increase in cost...

I've had 3 Tri systems now, 1 AMD and 2 Nvidia, in all cases it's seemed smoother to me than dual, and fraps frame times reflect this. I know fraps frame times arent a perfect gauge, but they do show better frame distribution and it reflected my experience. I wouldnt say it miles better, but better all the same. I still use frame caps anyway, and gameplay is as smooth as single GPU.

but 7 is the most powerful number in magic

Cant argue with that!

 

[SlowSpyder]

First of all, thank you for your comments. I think.
I am glad you are part of this form also.
Next, Isn't too big of a war? Have you seen the other thread?
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287359
The discussions over at H and TR? I do believe this is ruffling a bushel of feathers and I, like you, would love to read an article like this NO MATTER THE OUTCOME. If it shows Nvidia in a better light, why do you care? I don't care if it does, or turns out to all be rubbish. Either way, I'd like to know and that seems to be the overwhelming consensus in the posts I'm reading in this thread.
The ONLY reason I started this request was because of H and TR. I didn't just come out of the blue and request a smoothness test at a time when AMD was just ahead in framerates.

I am looking at it from your perspective. And I think this is the "I think often you get flak when it is completely not deserved." situation.
With only my preference for Nvidia and focus group participation, my motives for the thread come into question. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever. As long as it's done tastefully. The way you responded was admirable. But if you scroll back a bit and observe a post like Will Robinson's, you'd see those type of posts are useless and damaging to the forums.

Thanks SS.

I understand... I have no problem at all with the results, whatever they may be. If Nvidia has earned a favorable article, then good job team-Green. Maybe AMD will do something about that in one of their upcoming drivers, or next dual GPU card, and we'd have a good part and competition from Nvidia to thank for that.

I guess the point of my post was that if, as you mention Will, was to ask for an article to be written that shows all of the things a DX11.1 card can do vs. a DX11.0 card, you may question why he is asking for that. Especially if the AMD cards cost more than Nvidia cards while generally being a bit slower. But as pointed out by other posters, it very well may be worth investigating, I'm looking forward to the article.

I'll admit, I barely have time to nef on AT as much as I'd like to these days, much less read other forums. So if this is a big 'war' on other forums, I admit I haven't seen it because I don't get out much. I generally do really appreciate your posts, Keys. If it weren't for you I might have gone through life thinking 2x4's really are 2"x4".

 

[SlowSpyder]

3 or 4 GPUs are only smoother because you are more CPU bottlenecked with them. And that leads to the CPU dictating the frametime deltas, making it smooth(er).

So gaming on AMD is good for smoothness as my CPU will typically be the limiting factor?

 

[lavaheadache]

just want to chime in here and say that I don't think my 7970 is smooth in Far cry 3. Even at 50 and 55 fps I feel like there is microstutter. I really don't have this issue in any other games, that I notice anyway. I just feel like the game is never smooth. I would have mentioned this earlier but that is when I was playing the game on "high" settings because I thought that was as high as they went and the frame rate was very high at that point

 

[Jaydip]

Could run it on open source games, freemium games, and/or games that have depreciated to the point where the publishers are okay with giving them away free from time to time. Heck does it even need to be a game per se? Not really, right? So open source game-like software might work, too, as long as they had D3D support.

This is all assuming that the metrics tracked do in fact track the end-user experience and there are no problems like you get with FRAPS.



Did you read mine? A camera solution is ugly, slow to analyze the output from, but effective. I think Ryan would rather have something more automated and quicker to do, and I don't blame him, however, I'm not sure how feasible something like his proposal is. If it would require a lot of custom software or even hardware, then it could be a real chore.



Interesting idea, I don't know the answer, but perhaps someone here does. I hope Ryan will look into this as well.

It will run on any D3D application(probably for OpenGL as well).This is different than fraps.

 

[Vesku]

just want to chime in here and say that I don't think my 7970 is smooth in Far cry 3. Even at 50 and 55 fps I feel like there is microstutter. I really don't have this issue in any other games, that I notice anyway. I just feel like the game is never smooth. I would have mentioned this earlier but that is when I was playing the game on "high" settings because I thought that was as high as they went and the frame rate was very high at that point

Not noticing any stuttering myself, kind of surprised my setup is fine with Ultra settings actually.

 

[96Firebird]

just want to chime in here and say that I don't think my 7970 is smooth in Far cry 3. Even at 50 and 55 fps I feel like there is microstutter. I really don't have this issue in any other games, that I notice anyway. I just feel like the game is never smooth. I would have mentioned this earlier but that is when I was playing the game on "high" settings because I thought that was as high as they went and the frame rate was very high at that point

Is this while using RadeonPro? Might just be a bug with Far Cry 3... If my memory serves me correctly, I recall you saying you don't really notice microstutter. Weird that one game would cause you to notice it, unless I am thinking of someone else...

Edit - Nevermind, just saw in another thread you said you are very susceptible to microstutter. And also saw you started another thread on the issue.

 

[cmdrdredd]

just want to chime in here and say that I don't think my 7970 is smooth in Far cry 3. Even at 50 and 55 fps I feel like there is microstutter. I really don't have this issue in any other games, that I notice anyway. I just feel like the game is never smooth. I would have mentioned this earlier but that is when I was playing the game on "high" settings because I thought that was as high as they went and the frame rate was very high at that point

I notice something similar in skyrim when I hop back in that game. I can have 80fps and it never feels totally smooth all the time. Even on one card since I did try that too. I think at times a certain game engine will just appear jittery sometimes.

 

[Whitestar127]

Just get high speed camera an compare 2-way CF, 3-way CF and 4 -way CF with radeon pro and without. Do the same with NV cards. Doing it with only 2 cards would be a waste considering how much a high speed camera costs. I'm very interested if 4-way CF is indeed smother that 2-way. Maybe do it also on last generation cards, GTX590 and 6990 and 2xGTX590 and 2x6990 and see if they managed to improve smoothness. It would be very hilarious if they actually took a step back.

Camera is good, but I would prefer some tool that could measure it. And also do a visual blind test in games. Measurable performance is one thing, but how does that performance translate onto the screen? Should be very interesting to find out.

 

[Whitestar127]

I notice something similar in skyrim when I hop back in that game. I can have 80fps and it never feels totally smooth all the time. Even on one card since I did try that too. I think at times a certain game engine will just appear jittery sometimes.

Hmmm could this have anything to do with LCD screens and the vsync/60 fps thing (if you know what I'm talking about)? On my CRT screen Skyrim is always silk smooth.

 

[Skurge]

I notice something similar in skyrim when I hop back in that game. I can have 80fps and it never feels totally smooth all the time. Even on one card since I did try that too. I think at times a certain game engine will just appear jittery sometimes.

Skyrim is best played with with a capped FPS. It's got some serious issues.

 

[JAG87]

That is almost impossible.No two frames are exactly same.

Yea umm actually it's very possible, it's called vsync.

As long as you're rendering a minimum frame rate greater than 60 fps, all frames should be drawn in less than 16.6ms, which with vsync turned on are delivered following exactly that time interval resulting in a steady flow of frames at even intervals.

Unless for some reason your game is rendering some extremely easy frames and some extremely hard frames within the same second, which is very unlikely since frame complexity changes very little within the same second.

 

[MrK6]

Hmmm could this have anything to do with LCD screens and the vsync/60 fps thing (if you know what I'm talking about)? On my CRT screen Skyrim is always silk smooth.

Possibly. But Skyrim is silky smooth on my computer, and I'm using an LCD. I think there's a multitude of factors, in addition to the above, at play when considering smoothness. Notable considerations are the type of motherboard/chipset used, CPU type/HT on, driver version, background programs running, etc. One of the biggest culprits are unstable overclocks. Many people think because an overclock on a CPU or GPU runs games "fine for hours," that it's perfectly stable, which it may not be. People are always amazed when I tell them to return everything to stock settings and try again, and then magically their games run silky smooth.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Hmmm could this have anything to do with LCD screens and the vsync/60 fps thing (if you know what I'm talking about)? On my CRT screen Skyrim is always silk smooth.

I never run sync and in skyrim I cap my fps to 80 because anything higher causes jumpy character models and such.

 

[NIGELG]

Ryan Smith says to relax and go play some PC games.Sums up what he probably thinks of these outlandish claims by just two websites.

 

[Keysplayr]

Ryan Smith says to relax and go play some PC games.Sums up what he probably thinks of these outlandish claims by just two websites.

Actually, he said:

"This is something we will eventually look at, but as I've mentioned before it's not something I want to do until I have the right tools (which I am expecting sooner than later). Scott has done an amazing job with FRAPS, but that NVIDIA quote isn't wrong."

And then he said to go play some games. . ;-)

But keep going with your Iraqi Information Minister campaign. I had no idea they were looking to full that position again. Who knew?

 

[NIGELG]

Actually, he said:

"This is something we will eventually look at, but as I've mentioned before it's not something I want to do until I have the right tools (which I am expecting sooner than later). Scott has done an amazing job with FRAPS, but that NVIDIA quote isn't wrong."

And then he said to go play some games. . ;-)

But keep going with your Iraqi Information Minister campaign. I had no idea they were looking to full that position again. Who knew?

A paid Nvidia marketer is talking about 'Iraqi Information Minister campaign'??

Oh the irony!!!!Lol

You are the one who has to propagate Nvidia and tow the Company line and sing for your free cards.Not me.

 

[Vesku]

And then he said to go play some games. . ;-)

But keep going with your Iraqi Information Minister campaign. I had no idea they were looking to full that position again. Who knew?

"In the meantime however I'm personally satisfied with both AMD and NVIDIA in this regard; in my own personal experience I don't believe either of them to be notably worse than the other when it comes to single-GPU configurations. At the same time this community has a terrible habit of making mountains out of molehills, so if there's a "big war" brewing then I fear you guys might be taking this whole subject a bit too seriously. Spend less time looking at charts and more time playing video games, it's not like there's a shortage of good action games this year."

 

[NIGELG]

"In the meantime however I'm personally satisfied with both AMD and NVIDIA in this regard; in my own personal experience I don't believe either of them to be notably worse than the other when it comes to single-GPU configurations. At the same time this community has a terrible habit of making mountains out of molehills, so if there's a "big war" brewing then I fear you guys might be taking this whole subject a bit too seriously. Spend less time looking at charts and more time playing video games, it's not like there's a shortage of good action games this year."

He conveniently left out that part did he??

LOL.