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Asian manufacturing - unfair, but superior

moonbogg

moonbogg

Lifer
Chinese "clone" products are a cheap alternative to original products. They shamelessly copy creative and popular industrial products and sell for a tiny fraction of the price. I used to think this was cheating in a way, but I now see it as strength and is indicative of a superior economic model compared to our own.
They can do anything we can do for less. This takes the wind out of our sails while they sell their own original products right here in our country, along side their clones. Our patent laws have come back to bite us in the ass. We are crippled by our own laws and they just sit back and shake their head and wonder why we don't untie our own hands.
America can't win like this. It will continue to get worse and we will go down in a big way and end up like Canada.
 
You left out paying slave wages, using grossly inferior/unsafe material, and a general disregard for human life.

I don't get the Canada reference, are they having major problems? Runaway deficits, a huge and growing illegal community, complete disregard for personal property, things like that?
 
The reason it is unfair is that ideas are not tangible but are worth a lot more than manufacturing. When the bulk of R&D and marketing is dispensed by companies only to be ripped off, that is the theft of ideas.
 
Rakehellion said:
1/2 price for 1/4 the quality.
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Here's the thing. Most people don't care. If its barely put together well enough to not fall apart as soon as you open the box, that's good enough for most people. The attitude of the buyer is what will destroy the buyer. Rabid consumerism without conscience will never last long, anywhere.
Also, many "clone" items are of good quality. Not the best like the original, but many are fairly decent and even very good at times.
People think China doesn't innovate and create new products. That's not true because they do those things, but they also destroy our advantage and take the steam out of our engine by cloning our innovation. The laws that we made to protect ourselves are the very laws that are allowing us to be destroyed. Ridiculous intellectual property and patent laws are nothing but a joke in a global market with players like China involved. We are drowning in a sea of our own red tape.

Also, its not half the price. Its often less than 10% of the price for a 1:1 copy of the original. A greedy (and broke) American consumer can't resist such temptation because they simply MUST include high end items into their consumer based lives, even if it means the bleeding out of an entire nation.

Greenman said:
You left out paying slave wages, using grossly inferior/unsafe material, and a general disregard for human life.
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The consumer doesn't care, so in the end, China will be left not only standing, but towering over the U.S. In the end, we will have our imaginary ethics, and China will have the strongest, most untouchable country to have ever existed.
 
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moonbogg said:
Chinese "clone" products are a cheap alternative to original products. They shamelessly copy creative and popular industrial products and sell for a tiny fraction of the price. I used to think this was cheating in a way, but I now see it as strength and is indicative of a superior economic model compared to our own.
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Very true.
 
moonbogg said:
They can do anything we can do for less. This takes the wind out of our sails while they sell their own original products right here in our country, along side their clones. Our patent laws have come back to bite us in the ass. We are crippled by our own laws and they just sit back and shake their head and wonder why we don't untie our own hands. America can't win like this. It will continue to get worse and we will go down in a big way and end up like Canada.
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Most certainly.
 
Industries that care enough create red tape to prevent low end competition.
Energy Star, ANSI, SAE, UL, CSA, etc.
They have strict testing, performance, material requirements that only larger companies can obtain.

Why do you think we don't have knock off cars, appliances or industrial equipment?
Chinese knockoffs are mainly for household items where safety or performance isn't a big deal.
 
The fact is that China can research and innovate but right now it is far more effective and efficient for them to steal our shit.
 
moonbogg said:
Here's the thing. Most people don't care. If its barely put together well enough to not fall apart as soon as you open the box, that's good enough for most people.
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Seems like everyone in this thread cares.

Also, its not half the price. Its often less than 10% of the price for a 1:1 copy of the original.
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It's pretty much never an exact copy of the original and I don't know any retailers who pass that savings on to you.
 
They can't make guitars for crap. They can't make scooters for crap. Their manufacturing plants spew toxic waste into their air and their ingredients can be anything. They really save money because they have no restrictions and of course the slave wages and they make their workers work like machines.

It does make me mad that they are the worlds electronics makers. Our country always bitches about China but yet we buy so many products from them knowing and supporting their ways
 
edro said:
Industries that care enough create red tape to prevent low end competition.
Energy Star, ANSI, SAE, UL, CSA, etc.
They have strict testing, performance, material requirements that only larger companies can obtain.
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Exactly. China is good at quantity, not quality.

Why do you think we don't have knock off cars, appliances or industrial equipment?
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Germany is kicking America's ass there.
 
Rakehellion said:
1/2 price for 1/4 the quality.
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More like 1/4 the price for 1/2 the quality.

Well, not really, but my point is that going with Asian manufacturing is MUCH cheaper overall, regardless of quality level. If you want to make something that's poor quality, it's hugely cheaper in China. If you want to make something that's good quality, and near the quality of the original, it's still noticeably cheaper.

It all depends on who the company is and what the desired end result is.

My el crappo noname products are made in China. So is my iPhone 5s. Obviously, I'd consider my iPhone 5s way better built than 99.9% of the stuff I find at the dollar store, even though it's all made in China.

That said, companies like Apple or whatever need to do more to ensure that the working conditions are decent.

P.S. I don't understand the Canada reference either. In comparison to the rest of the world, Canada has been doing well of late.
 
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Well if the US is smart then they will try to move some of the manufacturing of US consumer products over to India, Mexico, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Indonesia. That way we have more flexibility to deal with China in the upcoming conflicts. Although it also gives China more flexibility in how they can deal with the US and other countries in any possible conflicts.
 
norseamd said:
Well if the US is smart then they will try to move some of the manufacturing of US consumer products over to India, Mexico, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Indonesia. That way we have more flexibility to deal with China in the upcoming conflicts. Although it also gives China more flexibility in how they can deal with the US and other countries in any possible conflicts.
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They are already doing that to a certain extent, although the reason is for cost, not politics. The problem though is some of those other countries are not as well established in terms of manufacturing.

eg. If you want to make a tablet, it's likely going to be made in China, not Bangladesh.

Remember, it's not the US government making the tablet, it's a consumer electronics company.

Also, some of the big electronics manufacturers are starting to move into places like Vietnam. It's cheaper there in many instances than China these days. Bangladesh doesn't seem too popular though, unless you're making clothes or something like that.
 
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Can't complain about the quality of my 4 televisions, which are all probably made in China.

I think my oldest TV is like 7+ years old and still kicking.
 
norseamd said:
Well if the US is smart then they will try to move some of the manufacturing of US consumer products over to India, Mexico, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Indonesia. That way we have more flexibility to deal with China in the upcoming conflicts. Although it also gives China more flexibility in how they can deal with the US and other countries in any possible conflicts.
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Those countries don't have manufacturing plants.

You go to India for cheap drugs.
 
Phokus said:
Can't complain about the quality of my 4 televisions, which are all probably made in China.

I think my oldest TV is like 7+ years old and still kicking.
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Indeed.

I remember the previous generation saying "Made in Japan" meant bad quality. Nowadays, "Made in Japan" usually suggests higher quality, and often higher quality than stuff made domestically in North America.

It's a pretty simple concept if a factory making the stuff chooses to have high standards, it will have high standards. If it chooses to have low standards, it will have low standards. It doesn't matter what country it is in.

I consider my Apple iPad a high quality build. I consider my Asus Nexus 7 a mediocre quality build. I consider the noname chargers I got off eBay utter junk. They are all made in Asia. In fact, companies like Asus and Apple sometimes use the same manufacturing companies to make their products, but their chosen level of quality is different, to achieve different price points.

Rakehellion said:
How would they do that? Hire a spy to infiltrate the factory?
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Inspections, for one. In the old days, it was a don't ask, don't tell policy. Increasingly, responsible companies are trying to get the companies they work with for manufacturing to abide by certain rules, and allow inspections. To a certain extent, they comply, because they know that if they are too dodgy about it, they may lose the contracts.
 
Manipulate currency, place unfair (and probably illegal) trade restrictions (and tariffs) and steal stuff = winner, winner chicken dinner. Throw in no regulation (other than the government's iron fist), no safety, no benefits, pitiful wages, shit working conditions....yep...hard to compete against.

Wonder why we have a college student loan issue right now? Look above.

As for the comment about TV's above, I've had 3 Chinese made TV's die within 2 years (the oldest one was 4 years old and the youngest was 11 months old). My old made in the USA tube TV that I gave to my father in law is 20 years old and still playing (although it weighs 300 pounds and isn't HD and no HDMI either 😛 )
 
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That's a pretty dim view of Asian manufacturing when you've lumped it all into design stealing and the use of cheap / inferior processes and materials.
 
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