Asian manufacturing - unfair, but superior

[moonbogg]

That's a pretty dim view of Asian manufacturing when you've lumped it all into design stealing and the use of cheap / inferior processes and materials.

Is it a coincidence that you are both brilliant and rich? I am willing to bet that you are painfully handsome as well. Like, handsome enough to turn me gay probably.

 

[norseamd]

http://thediplomat.com/2014/09/why-the-world-doesnt-make-in-india/

 

[AdamK47]

Is it a coincidence that you are both brilliant and rich? I am willing to bet that you are painfully handsome as well. Like, handsome enough to turn me gay probably.

You went from being completely wrong about something in this thread to being completely right about something in this thread. I applaud this unexpected turnaround.

 

[mmntech]

China can manufacture anything you want at any level of quality you want. Apple products are a good example of a Chinese made product that has high build quality. Most brands though chose to manufacture at the lowest quality items consumers will tolerate. Since we've been conditioned into a throwaway society, that's a lot lower than you'd think. Certainly lower than in the past.

Western wages have stagnated since the 90s. Yet we all now have champagne tastes on a beer budget. Which has driven demand for goods produced overseas using cheap labour. Our entire consumer economy is dependent on it.

The reason Chinese tolerate working in those factories is they're better than where they came from. Many factory workers are from impoverished rural farming communities. There will be a tipping point though as wealth starts to grow. You'll see a push for unions and stricter labour laws. Once that happens, China will no longer be the world's factory. All that will move to India, then to Africa.

 

[Svnla]

The consumer doesn't care, so in the end, China will be left not only standing, but towering over the U.S. In the end, we will have our imaginary ethics, and China will have the strongest, most untouchable country to have ever existed.

Strongest? Untouchable? Seriously?

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Exhibit A = http://www.businessinsider.com/china-water-pollution-photos-2014-7?op=1

Exhibit B = http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-25/china-needs-millions-of-brides-asap

Exhibit C= http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jun/28/china-food-water

Exhibit D = http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/30/china-economy-shadowbanking-idUSL4N0SP1O720141030

That will be enough for now.

 

[moonbogg]

http://thediplomat.com/2014/09/why-the-world-doesnt-make-in-india/

" There’s bureaucratic red tape, a difficult land acquisition act, troublesome environmental legislation, a shortage of electricity, and a lack of water resources."

The bolded sounds like home. When was the last time someone wanted to "Make in America" AHAHA! Its worse than a joke. If you want something to be good quality and cost a trillion dollars, then you make in America. Can you imagine iphone's being made here? Imagine some guy packaging screens all day on an assembly line in Los Angeles. That guy would expect that screen to pay for his kids college, buy him a house with a 2 car garage, buy two cars, buy a pension, buy vacations, buy health insurance, buy nice clothes, buy Christmas gifts, buy Starbucks, buy nice dinners, Buy 6 video cards for a single PC so he can splash it out on his AT sig for all the kids to see in VC&G and act like a pro-derp, and finally, buy a fancy grave stone for his underworked and overpaid ass.
Your iphone now costs $3,600.00.

 

[norseamd]

As bad as the bureaucracy is over there I fear another Russian style privatization might have terrible consequences not just for India but for the world overall.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

1/2 price for 1/4 the quality.

What exactly does the USA manufacture that's so great? Walk into Wal-Mart or Target for any cheap, Chinese-made, consumer level goods, clothing, electronics, appliances, sporting goods, housewares, toys, hardware, whatever, what are the American-made alternatives that are 4 times better for only double the price?

 

[IronWing]

Protectionism works. Eventually, maybe, Americans will remember this.

 

[Mai72]

If you have a product that is cheaper and put together fair next to a superior product that cost more, most consumers are going to go after the cheaper product. It doesn't help matters that most items are now disposable. Most items seems to last only a few years anyway. Have an issue with your laptop? Buy a new one. Should I spend $1k on a quality desk that will last me 20 years, or should I go with this $100 knock off that will last me for 3 years? Should I purchase a Coach handbag from America for $600 or buy a Chinese knockoff for $50? Hmm... decisions.

This type of mentality benefits China, but doesn't fit American manufacturing.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Chinese "clone" products are a cheap alternative to original products. They shamelessly copy creative and popular industrial products and sell for a tiny fraction of the price. I used to think this was cheating in a way, but I now see it as strength and is indicative of a superior economic model compared to our own.

Pros and cons to everything.

Lot of these clones are extreme cheap quality and take Human abuse to the extreme with it.

End product is not much I ever cared for.

But it depends on the consumer too. Some people don't mind buying stuff every few weeks or months over and over again.

I would prefer to pay more money for quality and have it last much longer....

I will not say it's superior. US is simply outsourcing it's slavery to China. We need it to sustain and they need it to develop.

 

[Mai72]

Strongest? Untouchable? Seriously?

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Exhibit A = http://www.businessinsider.com/china-water-pollution-photos-2014-7?op=1

Exhibit B = http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-25/china-needs-millions-of-brides-asap

Exhibit C= http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jun/28/china-food-water

Exhibit D = http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/30/china-economy-shadowbanking-idUSL4N0SP1O720141030

That will be enough for now.

Yes, it's predicted that the Chinese economy will overtake the American economy by 2020. By 2050 it's predicted that the Chinese economy will double that of America. We will be battling for 2nd place with India.

You make the mistake that most westerners make. You are trying to define China thru western perceptions. a few centuries ago China was the dominant country. It was only the last two to three centuries that China fell from the top spot. The 20th century belonged to America. The 21st century is going to belong to China.

Understanding the Rise of China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imhUmLtlZpw

The Chinese were much more advanced than the west. Take a look at Christopher's ship vs Chinese explorer Zheng.

 

[Svnla]

Yes, it's predicted that the Chinese economy will overtake the American economy by 2020. By 2050 it's predicted that the Chinese economy will double that of America. We will be battling for 2nd place with India.

You make the mistake that most westerners make. You are trying to define China thru western perceptions. a few centuries ago China was the dominant country. It was only the last two to three centuries that China fell from the top spot. The 20th century belonged to America. The 21st century is going to belong to China.

Understanding the Rise of China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imhUmLtlZpw

The Chinese were much more advanced than the west. Take a look at Christopher's ship vs Chinese explorer Zheng.

Ok,

A few centuries ago, Rome (Italy), Persia (Iran), Ottoman (Turkey), England/<fill in the blank> was a dominant country too.

Speaking of Zheng, what did china get from the voyage with all those big ships? Columbus found the New World. Enough said.

US is not perfect but I rather put my money on US than china. The stinking rich and the ruling class in china are doing the same thing. They are sending their family members and kids to US/EU/Canada/Australia in droves.

 

[Engineer]

What exactly does the USA manufacture that's so great? Walk into Wal-Mart or Target for any cheap, Chinese-made, consumer level goods, clothing, electronics, appliances, sporting goods, housewares, toys, hardware, whatever, what are the American-made alternatives that are 4 times better for only double the price?

There are no alternatives at this point....at all. It's ALL been shipped out. What Wal-Mart started with....the MADE IN THE USA premise ....in an ironic turn, is everything but made in the USA now.

 

[Engineer]

Protectionism works. Eventually, maybe, Americans will remember this.

No we won't. Look for two more free trade deals, sending out more US jobs, coming soon.

By the way, China uses protectionism and 'nationalism' (by force) very well.

 

[moonbogg]

Pros and cons to everything.

Lot of these clones are extreme cheap quality and take Human abuse to the extreme with it.

End product is not much I ever cared for.

But it depends on the consumer too. Some people don't mind buying stuff every few weeks or months over and over again.

I would prefer to pay more money for quality and have it last much longer....

I will not say it's superior. US is simply outsourcing it's slavery to China. We need it to sustain and they need it to develop.

Way to see the world through a western lens. The U.S. does this of course, but that's only a fly eating off the back of the rhino.
China has its own products. This isn't just about America using China. Its time people face up to the facts. China is great. They are stronger and better than we are in many ways. We have our strengths, but those strengths aren't going to pull us through in any significant way. As far as China is concerned, America can keep the moral high ground, because this next century China will dominate the actual ground.

 

[dawheat]

Why are people lumping Chinese manufacturing by first tier companies (Apple, Samsung, etc) to Chinese clone products sold by Chinese companies?

Honestly looking around my home right now, I don't know if I have a single Chinese branded product. Sure most of my electronics are probably made in China, but I pay Samsung, Apple, Microsoft, Canon, etc. I wish they'd pass more of the savings on to me as the end consumer, but the savings mostly go to pad their corporate profits.

If we're talking about that no-name Walmart $15 toaster oven, sure - that'll be the end of Western companies.

 

[Ronstang]

The Chinese are uncreative junk peddlers and you praise them as superior?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

There are no alternatives at this point....at all. It's ALL been shipped out. What Wal-Mart started with....the MADE IN THE USA premise ....in an ironic turn, is everything but made in the USA now.

Exactly my point. China is not producing stuff that's 1/4 the quality at 1/2 the price, they're producing the vast majority of our consumer goods completely unopposed by American manufacturing. On a consumer goods level I'm not sure what I could buy that's made in America other than a car and I wouldn't buy an American car.

 

[Mai72]

US is not perfect but I rather put my money on US than china. The stinking rich and the ruling class in china are doing the same thing. They are sending their family members and kids to US/EU/Canada/Australia in droves.

That's true. No argument there.

 

[Leyawiin]

If this is going to end up making us like Canada I say hurry the hell up.

 

[dawheat]

Way to see the world through a western lens. The U.S. does this of course, but that's only a fly eating off the back of the rhino.
China has its own products. This isn't just about America using China. Its time people face up to the facts. China is great. They are stronger and better than we are in many ways. We have our strengths, but those strengths aren't going to pull us through in any significant way. As far as China is concerned, America can keep the moral high ground, because this next century China will dominate the actual ground.

No one can argue that China is not a leading power or will not be a leading power in the upcoming century. But dreams of domination are naive considering the issues China faces:

- massive income inequality
- massive state supported debt (esp regional/local)
- huge environmental damage and shrinking arable land
- falling fertility rates and an aging population (just like the rest of Asia, though not quite as bad)
- huge oil dependency
- ethnic unrest
- military that can only be deployed locally - no ability to project conventional power outside their borders or local waters

The US has its own challenges, but dreams of a Chinese hegemony are stupid. Reality is likely more complicated - in 20-30 years, no country having US-type sole, global leadership anymore.

 

[moonbogg]

Why are people lumping Chinese manufacturing by first tier companies (Apple, Samsung, etc) to Chinese clone products sold by Chinese companies?

Honestly looking around my home right now, I don't know if I have a single Chinese branded product. Sure most of my electronics are probably made in China, but I pay Samsung, Apple, Microsoft, Canon, etc. I wish they'd pass more of the savings on to me as the end consumer, but the savings mostly go to pad their corporate profits.

If we're talking about that no-name Walmart $15 toaster oven, sure - that'll be the end of Western companies.

That's the bulk of it. Its the little stuff, but it takes a lot of little stuff to support a nation. China does it all though, and they are getting better. People say China is inferior because of cheap products, but that is simply them taking advantage of the market. That's capitalism, right?
If America is more free, but China ends up ruling the world, who wins? Define "better" in this scenario. You can be moral and impoverished living in the US, or you can be a citizen of the mightiest country on earth.
The thing about China rising is that, unlike America, China will not be tripped up and slowed down by soft bullshit. If they have enemies, they will kill them. If they want a territory, they will take it. If they see economic opportunity, they will exploit it without the "moral" hesitations that Americans have. They will not be their own worst enemy.
China is the kind of strong, traditional empire that the world used to know. They will create the rules and decide if they feel like playing by them.

 

[Engineer]

Exactly my point. China is not producing stuff that's 1/4 the quality at 1/2 the price, they're producing the vast majority of our consumer goods completely unopposed by American manufacturing. On a consumer goods level I'm not sure what I could buy that's made in America other than a car and I wouldn't buy an American car.

You wouldn't buy an 'American Made' car or one produced by 'American Companies'?

 

[Engineer]

That's the bulk of it. Its the little stuff, but it takes a lot of little stuff to support a nation. China does it all though, and they are getting better. People say China is inferior because of cheap products, but that is simply them taking advantage of the market. That's capitalism, right?
If America is more free, but China ends up ruling the world, who wins? Define "better" in this scenario. You can be moral and impoverished living in the US, or you can be a citizen of the mightiest country on earth.
The thing about China rising is that, unlike America, China will not be tripped up and slowed down by soft bullshit. If they have enemies, they will kill them. If they want a territory, they will take it. If they see economic opportunity, they will exploit it without the "moral" hesitations that Americans have. They will not be their own worst enemy.
China is the kind of strong, traditional empire that the world used to know. They will create the rules and decide if they feel like playing by them.

Living in the nuclear age, I doubt that China will do shit except to try to bankrupt everyone else.