As Israel ticks ever closer to 9/20/2011

[SamurAchzar]

As much as I'd like Israel to be destroyed, power is a deciding factor in any lasting solution. Israel has both soft (powerful lobbies) and hard power and I do not see Israel giving up much of its land without the involvement of world powers. As long as the the house of Saud stands in the way of Muslim unity, there is no way that the Arab and Muslims states can counter Israel on their own.

If all Muslim states were united and sincere in the Palestinian cause, not even Israel would be able to withstand the onslaught.

First, let me say I admire your honesty and candor. You speak what many people on this forum think, although unlike you, they try to mask it with all sorts of dubious arguments and fake concern for Israel. Good for you.

Second, being that your views can be considered mainstream in the Muslim world, I must ask, what is a reasonable price to pay for the ultimate destruction of Israel and it's inhabitants? How many Muslim and Muslim countries is it agreeable to sacrifice for this cause?

 

[Nebor]

How many Muslim and Muslim countries is it agreeable to sacrifice for this cause?

Muslims are legion. They don't have the technology or high functioning intelligence of the enemy, but they are cheap, expendable and numerous. Have you ever read the book Starship Troopers? The muslims are the bugs, and Jews are the cap troopers.

 

[Craig234]

As much as I'd like Israel to be destroyed...

Explain that further.

On the one side, you could mean 'Israel relocates their nation after diplomacy'.

On the other, you could mean 'a group gets some nukes and blows up the nation'.

How much violence are you endorsing? Why are you endorsing violence?

One thing I'll note - Samur jumped on your post to pretend 'Muslims want violence'. Another post I saw today, yet another 'nuke the middle east', he won't respond to.

 

[Craig234]

Muslims... are cheap, expendable... The muslims are the bugs...

First, let me say I admire your honesty and candor.You speak what many people on this forum think, although unlike you, they try to mask it with all sorts of dubious arguments and fake concern for Muslims. Good for you. Second, being that your views can be considered mainstream in the pro-Israel world, I must ask, what is a reasonable price to pay for the ultimate destruction of Muslims? How many non-Muslims is it agreeable to sacrifice for this cause?

 

[chucky2]

All of them?

 

[Nebor]

First, let me say I admire your honesty and candor.You speak what many people on this forum think, although unlike you, they try to mask it with all sorts of dubious arguments and fake concern for Muslims. Good for you. Second, being that your views can be considered mainstream in the pro-Israel world, I must ask, what is a reasonable price to pay for the ultimate destruction of Muslims? How many non-Muslims is it agreeable to sacrifice for this cause?

Just like in Starship Troopers, they started this war, and their stated goal is total domination. That's not our goal, but it may very well be the only way to stop them.

 

[EagleKeeper]

There is a difference between radical Muslims and Muslims.
It is easy to weed out the difference from their actions.

Those that feel that anything justifies action against infidels deserve the same response.

 

[Whiskey16]

Muslims are legion. They don't have the technology or high functioning intelligence of the enemy, but they are cheap, expendable and numerous. Have you ever read the book Starship Troopers? The muslims are the bugs, and Jews are the cap troopers.

:thumbsdown: Much like jews having long been portrayed as cockroaches and vermin to be exterminited.

Hate speech is hate speech. Genocide is genocide. Nebor, you are among the worst of the worst in this world.

Stormfront URL redirections again?

 

[Lemon law]

Well tick tick tick, lots of issues will be resolved on 9/20/2011, as the stakes on all sides keep rising.

Yet everyone seems in denial, as if an event only 8 days in the future can be ignored or not addressed until the last minute.

 

[Craig234]

Just like in Starship Troopers, they started this war, and their stated goal is total domination. That's not our goal, but it may very well be the only way to stop them.

No, it's more our goal than theirs. It's not 'their stated goal', and while we don't 'state it' as ours, our actions speak louder than our words. We are the dominant empire.

That has plateued some as we've gotten ourselves into problems, but the rich as a class are more dominant than ever in modern history.

Who's invaded whom? Who's pushed the leaders onto whom for their own interests?

 

[SamurAchzar]

There is a difference between radical Muslims and Muslims.
It is easy to weed out the difference from their actions.

Those that feel that anything justifies action against infidels deserve the same response.

Looking at polls and Muslim public opinion, one must ask - who ARE the radicals of the Muslim world, those who support Jihad against infidels or those who support human rights and separation of church and state? For me the answer is easy - Jihadists are an overwhelming majority.

 

[Generator]

The Jews have all but conquered Israel, the Gaza strip must be redone however. Its a gauntlet of despair as the son becomes the father...the jew becomes the nazi. Its horrible blight upon humanity that this situation exists.

I wouldn't tell the Jews to retreat to these old lines like Obama suggested. But I don't Nentayu berating the President of my country. Lemon Law is right the jew must be dope slapped for such transgression.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Well tick tick tick, lots of issues will be resolved on 9/20/2011, as the stakes on all sides keep rising.

Yet everyone seems in denial, as if an event only 8 days in the future can be ignored or not addressed until the last minute.

I hope UN will decide on a Palestinian state with no US veto. Let them have their state. If a state is granted and the right of return is thrown out the window, they will start killing each other. The refugees and Hamas will revolt against the PA and its leadership. It will be a real bloodbath. Let them have it.

The difference between Israelis and Palestinians is that the former have come to terms with a state for the latter, while the reverse does not hold true.

 

[SamurAchzar]

The Jews have all but conquered Israel, the Gaza strip must be redone however. Its a gauntlet of despair as the son becomes the father...the jew becomes the nazi. Its horrible blight upon humanity that this situation exists.

How do you purpose solving it?

I wouldn't tell the Jews to retreat to these old lines like Obama suggested. But I don't Nentayu berating the President of my country. Lemon Law is right the jew must be dope slapped for such transgression.

With an election year coming, I'd rather bet on the Jews slapping Obama than the other way around.

 

[JSt0rm]

How many Muslim and Muslim countries is it agreeable to sacrifice for this cause?

Probably a 4:1 ratio. If it was Americans then it would be around 12:1 or 15:1

 

[Whiskey16]

Lemon Law is right the jew must be dope slapped for such transgression.

No. Careful with labels. You mean to criticise the state of Israel and Zionist expansionists.

Among the belligerants, they are the violent extremists that alone hold control the land and power to acceptably bring a resolution to the Israeli/Palestinian issue.

Zionist expansionists are the problem. They enact policies of criminal occuption and colonisation at the expense of Palestinian basic rights, the just identity of a Palestinian people, and their just goal for independant sovereignty as a state. Students of history (as Germans studied and learned lessons from the Ottomans upon Armenians), particularly Germany into Polland in the last century, they are equally attempting to perfect a policy of bigotry by militarilly expanding their state and people at the expense of others, who are demeaned.

 

[The Green Bean]

Explain that further.

On the one side, you could mean 'Israel relocates their nation after diplomacy'.

On the other, you could mean 'a group gets some nukes and blows up the nation'.

How much violence are you endorsing? Why are you endorsing violence?

One thing I'll note - Samur jumped on your post to pretend 'Muslims want violence'. Another post I saw today, yet another 'nuke the middle east', he won't respond to.

Israel should exist as part of an Pan-Arab federal state with full autonomy except defense, finance and foreign relations. Jerusalem should exist as a special territory governed by all the stakeholders combined. Nobody needs to be physically destroyed or killed but the current Israeli Zionist expansive and aggressive approach needs to stop.

 

[The Green Bean]

First, let me say I admire your honesty and candor. You speak what many people on this forum think, although unlike you, they try to mask it with all sorts of dubious arguments and fake concern for Israel. Good for you.

Second, being that your views can be considered mainstream in the Muslim world, I must ask, what is a reasonable price to pay for the ultimate destruction of Israel and it's inhabitants? How many Muslim and Muslim countries is it agreeable to sacrifice for this cause?

The destruction of Israel does not mean genocide. Jews have lived in Islamic lands for 1400 years with varying degrees of autonomy and there is no reason why they should not be able to get along in a secular setup.

 

[Generator]

If Israel really wants peace they will pay for it. Literally give these Palestinians hundreds of thousands of dollars per family. That is the sort of aid I would like to see American dollars going to. Gaza should driven into the sea. Bribe Egypt into taking the suddenly wealthy refugees. Think of it as a last real good deed of dying American monetary money printing debacle.

Peace can be bought, show the world that Jews are tired of pinching pennies.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Israel should exist as part of an Pan-Arab federal state with full autonomy except defense, finance and foreign relations. Jerusalem should exist as a special territory governed by all the stakeholders combined. Nobody needs to be physically destroyed or killed but the current Israeli Zionist expansive and aggressive approach needs to stop.

“We shall never stop until we can go back home and Israel is destroyed… The goal of our struggle is the end of Israel, and there can be no compromises or mediations… the goal of this violence is the elimination of Zionism from Palestine in all its political, economic and military aspects… We don’t want peace, we want victory. Peace for us means Israel’s destruction and nothing else. ”
- Yasser Arafat, PLO chairman

(Washington Post, March 29, 1970)

 

[The Green Bean]

“We shall never stop until we can go back home and Israel is destroyed… The goal of our struggle is the end of Israel, and there can be no compromises or mediations… the goal of this violence is the elimination of Zionism from Palestine in all its political, economic and military aspects… We don’t want peace, we want victory. Peace for us means Israel’s destruction and nothing else. ”
- Yasser Arafat, PLO chairman

(Washington Post, March 29, 1970)

That quote could be interpreted in many different ways. It fits in perfectly fine with what I said. The destruction of Israel means the end of Israel in it's current form. It does not mean "kill all Jews."

Also, 1970 is more than 41 years ago. Things have changed since then.

 

[SamurAchzar]

One thing I'll note - Samur jumped on your post to pretend 'Muslims want violence'. Another post I saw today, yet another 'nuke the middle east', he won't respond to.

Craig, I don't know what other post you are referring to, but I do find interest in The Green Bean's posts because he does not seem like a troll, rather he has a laid out agenda and unlike the Muslims living in the states that come to this forum he's not trying to whitewash anything, just tells it like it is, a virtue which I sincerely appreciate. I'd even go as far as to say that he represents the young Muslims that took part in the Arab spring, with their detest of the dictators in power and their will to throw American influence out. For better or worse, to me he's the face of Arab democracy more than anyone else out here. TGB I hope you don't take offense in this, perhaps you'd even agree with me.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Israel should exist as part of an Pan-Arab federal state with full autonomy except defense, finance and foreign relations. Jerusalem should exist as a special territory governed by all the stakeholders combined. Nobody needs to be physically destroyed or killed but the current Israeli Zionist expansive and aggressive approach needs to stop.

This idea is intriguing, first time I hear it. Few questions which I would appreciate if you took the time to answer:

1. How will you bridge the GDP per capita gaps between Israel and the pan Arab entity? Israel's GDP per capita is about $30k; Egypt's is $6,200, Syria's $2,700, Pakistan's $1,050, Jordan's $4,500. Obviously there will be tremendous economical gaps which might cause anger; furthermore, it's not fiscally possible to unite such different economies, with huge inflation and unemployment rates in Arab states.

2. What kind of educational mandate will Jews receive? Will they be able to teach their kids what they see fit without external intervention?

3. What guarantees are there that the pan Arabian state will keep protecting the Jews even if the political structure of it were to destabilize?

4. What kind of military opportunity do you see to force Israel into this scheme? Israel would have to be first disarmed of WMDs, all second strike capabilities, all anti ICBM capabilities (Arrow missile, etc.) and even then it seems nearly impossible to beat it with conventional means - and you said yourself that a genocide is not something you desire, so that rules out using the Pakistani WMDs offensively.

5. Continuing the last question, and this is something I already ask, if someone would assure you that your plan will work out militarily, what kind of sacrifice would you think is acceptable for the Muslim states? 100,000 men? Millions? An entire state?

6. Do you think a threshold exists by which Muslim will have to accept Israel as a given fact? Like in 10, 20 years from now. Assuming you will not be able to militarily force your vision and the military balance of power remains as it is today, do you see an expiration date to the conflict or is it something perpetual and holy?

 

[Nebor]

Looking at polls and Muslim public opinion, one must ask - who ARE the radicals of the Muslim world, those who support Jihad against infidels or those who support human rights and separation of church and state? For me the answer is easy - Jihadists are an overwhelming majority.

Just look at how laws and societal norms emerge in every country with a Muslim majority. It's not rocket science.

 

[Nebor]

The destruction of Israel does not mean genocide. Jews have lived in Islamic lands for 1400 years with varying degrees of autonomy and there is no reason why they should not be able to get along in a secular setup.

First of all, there shouldn't be any "Islamic lands," as religion should have no bearing on governance. But look at how Jews live in Islamic lands today. They live discreetly, quietly and with some amount of fear. They're not treated equally. What happens if an Islamic woman decides she wants to marry a Jew and convert to Judaism? Not good things, that's what.