As a Republican how do you defend voter suppression?

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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
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You miss the irony of the situation in Florida. Repubs attempted to quash registration by third parties, like the LWV, citing ACORN & their dishonest attack on that organization, then end up with their own efforts being similarly discredited. Sweet Justice.



Democrats opposed the onerous restrictions on third party registrations all along. They only called out Florida Repubs to highlight Repubs' bullshit in the matter.

"They would if they could" isn't an argument, it's projection of one's own "values" onto others.



You're also projecting your personal situation onto others wrt obtaining picture ID, ignoring the fact that it's not so easy for other people. While the ID itself may be "free" in many places, the supporting documentation isn't. Let's try a hypothetical example, like an elderly woman who's been married & divorced twice, then widowed by a third husband. Let's say she's lived all over the country, changing her name with each marriage. She has to provide documentation for all of that, including her birth certificate, to "prove" who she is, even though she may be receiving SS checks or a state pension. It's a good thing she doesn't have to document all of that to keep getting those checks, huh?

But you seem to think it's a good thing she has to document all that to keep on voting...

When it requires zealotry to obtain the documentation to vote, then only zealots will vote, the whole point of current Repub efforts. "They must not want to vote that bad" is a bullshit argument in support of such.

Why should anybody need a counter argument to deal with a solution in search of a problem? Why concede that significant "Voter Fraud" is anything more than a conspiracy theory intended to make it harder for some people to vote? Should we say "You're right, but..." when you're not right at all?

It's nice of you to concede that all of this is a voter suppression effort, so why do you support it?

So assuming everything you said is true (and I'm not admitting that it is), the Florida Dems apparently think two wrongs make a right. So at best, they were acting like teenagers.

"They would if they could" is an acknowledgement of the nature of politics. Nice try to underhandedly demonize my values though.

As for the last part, what are you smoking? Check out Virginia's voter ID:
http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/votinginperson.html

If she's collecting SS checks and has a corresponding SS card, she has all the ID she needs for VA. Hell even a current utility bill does the job. Can't speak for all states, but your argument rings hollow on the concept of voter ID in general.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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Let's cut through the crap, shall we?

1. Republicans don't really care about voter fraud nearly so much as they do about making it difficult for Democrat-leaning demographic groups to vote.

2. Democrats don't care about dealing with voter fraud if it causes any inconvenience whatsoever to Democrat-leaning demographic groups.

3. Most reasonable people would be fine with voter ID laws if they were implemented in a way that ensured certain groups would not be disenfranchised. They do have a problem with voter ID laws that take the attitude of "do it this way or too bad".

I agree, since number 1 includes illegals and the dead, who routinely vote democrat. These are the democrat leaning demographics whose votes I support suppressing. The handful of "house zombies" and "house illegals" (as their respective groups call them) who vote republican should also have their votes suppressed.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
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Once upon a time it could be considered suppression to require an ID, knowing damn well a good 15% of the urban poor democrat base wouldnt even be able to produce an ID. Nowadays it is pretty much irrelevant. Anyone can get an ID.

When it comes down to it, both parties are very equal in terms of voter suppression. If you do not understand this then you're naive. Just ask one of those party leaders why they dont support instant runoff voting, like most civilized countries. They know damn well that that encourages other parties to rise up. They dont want that. Not at ALL. If that isnt voter suppression then what is?
 

D-Man

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 1999
2,991
0
71
As a Republican how do you defend voter suppression?

I really do not need to as your talking point is pure boloney lacking bread and mayo.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,505
16,993
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As a Republican how do you defend voter suppression?

I really do not need to as your talking point is pure boloney lacking bread and mayo.

Did you tell the judges that ruled against the voter ID laws on the grounds that it does suppress voters?

Clearly, you are the one holding the baloney.
 
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thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,587
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I agree, since number 1 includes illegals and the dead, who routinely vote democrat. These are the democrat leaning demographics whose votes I support suppressing. The handful of "house zombies" and "house illegals" (as their respective groups call them) who vote republican should also have their votes suppressed.

Ah cybrsage and his current lies. They're so amusing. Ignore the fact that vote fraud is the statistically least committed crime in this nation. Then support a solution for it that will cause a problem 250,000 times larger than the one it solves, brilliant!

You see, when a problem doesn't occur or occurs at such an insignificant level as to be virtually non-existent, then a "solution" that creates a bigger problem isn't really a solution. The factual, 100% correct, true statistics (ie. not whatever bullshit you inevitably believe) say that voter id laws AT BEST will stop 1 fraudulent vote for every 50,000 to 250,000 legal votes it prevents.

In other words, if you support the voter id laws you're a piece of shit because you support denying Constitutional rights to people for political reasons.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
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What a coincidence..
#1. "We need voter ID laws, or else voter fraud will run rampant!"

http://www.cracked.com/article_2006...uments-you-hear-every-election-season_p2.html


Thats a rich article I like the prohibition failed part the best , I can't say where but underground Bars are opening up in many places , Pay no insurance. NO TAXES A beer for a 1$ and setups . Its like drinking in the 70's $10 is all ya need and these new underground bars are making money, My shop has a pop vending machine . Pricies exactly what I pay coke 50 cents a can , If you know what button to push beer comes forth @$1
Weekends on the poker tables I do well. I don't play . But to sit at table you pay. With this extra money I can buy new vechicles or whatever I need. Many ways to make money off the books and Americans are rushing head first into this new opertunity the gooberment and insurance companies created
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
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Let's cut through the crap, shall we?

1. Republicans don't really care about voter fraud nearly so much as they do about making it difficult for Democrat-leaning demographic groups to vote.

2. Democrats don't care about dealing with voter fraud if it causes any inconvenience whatsoever to Democrat-leaning demographic groups.

3. Most reasonable people would be fine with voter ID laws if they were implemented in a way that ensured certain groups would not be disenfranchised. They do have a problem with voter ID laws that take the attitude of "do it this way or too bad".

Exactly! Some people just aren't very reasonable though. In another thread on the same topic, I asked if people would be for the law if there was a way to completely ensure that everyone would be able to vote, and the only response i got was something about strawman or some other crap that did not really make sense. It really just proves that some people really don't care about anything but the party line. Foolishness.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
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OJ was acquitted. Courts aren't arbiters of truth.

OJ went free based on Blackstone's principle- the prosecution didn't make their case. Onerous voter ID requirements were struck down for similar reasons & others- those wanting them couldn't make a reasonable case to have them, to burden voters unnecessarily.

Make a case that we need strict voter ID *on the evidence*, not on notions of the way you think it might be.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
I agree, since number 1 includes illegals and the dead, who routinely vote democrat. These are the democrat leaning demographics whose votes I support suppressing. The handful of "house zombies" and "house illegals" (as their respective groups call them) who vote republican should also have their votes suppressed.

*Citation needed*
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
So assuming everything you said is true (and I'm not admitting that it is), the Florida Dems apparently think two wrongs make a right. So at best, they were acting like teenagers.

"They would if they could" is an acknowledgement of the nature of politics. Nice try to underhandedly demonize my values though.

As for the last part, what are you smoking? Check out Virginia's voter ID:
http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/votinginperson.html

If she's collecting SS checks and has a corresponding SS card, she has all the ID she needs for VA. Hell even a current utility bill does the job. Can't speak for all states, but your argument rings hollow on the concept of voter ID in general.

Oh, please. I haven't suggested that people be allowed to vote with no ID at all. I think Virginia's requirements are fine, but those *aren't good enough* for strict voter ID advocates. That's not what they're advocating, at all, or what Repub controlled state govts have tried to enact.

Let's hear what the people on the other side of the argument have to say about Virginia's requirements- Virginia *does not* require state issued photo ID, at all.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,081
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Nope, just some sort of ID.

I know, I voted in Virginia several times now.

Oh, and they did just mail out voter ID's recently, but only for convenience. It aint required.
 
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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
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Oh, please. I haven't suggested that people be allowed to vote with no ID at all. I think Virginia's requirements are fine, but those *aren't good enough* for strict voter ID advocates. That's not what they're advocating, at all, or what Repub controlled state govts have tried to enact.

Let's hear what the people on the other side of the argument have to say about Virginia's requirements- Virginia *does not* require state issued photo ID, at all.

No, but there are people who slip through the cracks and therefore need to get a state photo ID. These people are typically poor and such, and essentially the subject of the counterargument we're hearing with regard to other states (notably PA). So the question is where you do you draw the threshold? When is it too much?

From what I've heard shouted from the rooftops, apparently going to the DMV is too much for a significant number of people. I personally find the concept hard to believe, but even assuming that it's legitimate, the solution isn't to abolish voter ID but to make it more widely available; either through more locations or through slightly looser tolerances. Haven't heard that proposed anywhere.

What I have heard is arguments of supposed moral superiority and outrage, with any practical arguments being secondary, minor, and dwindling shortly after they're made; because the answers to the practical concerns are simple and obvious. Which to me presents an image that's becoming all too common: opposing an issue for little to no real reason other than a big moral/political jerk-off. That's my impression of most of those opposed to voter ID.

Those politicians in favor may be trying to leverage the timing of it to stifle some votes, that's just big politics for you. But if that's even a secondary objective it seems pretty retarded to me. Does anyone actually think that Romney is going to take PA? Or that the amount of people temporarily affected by voter ID (because they would eventually get IDs) is going to matter anywhere in this election? No.

I see first and foremost faux outrage from the critics of "Faux News". I'd rather support stupid, ineffective, temporary and extremely minor voter suppression with potential long-term positive effects than moral/political jerk-offs for their own sake. Pick your poison.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,505
16,993
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I see first and foremost faux outrage from the critics of "Faux News". I'd rather support stupid, ineffective, temporary and extremely minor voter suppression with potential long-term positive effects than moral/political jerk-offs for their own sake. Pick your poison.

Extremely minor? No what's extremely minor is the amount of voter fraud that exists, what's extremely minor is the amount of voter fraud that would actually be prevented from any of the voter ID laws.



However I agree with your other premise. If we want voters to have ID's then they must be made available for everyone to get.

But even if everyone had an ID it still wouldn't stop the actual voter ID fraud that does exist. So what's the point of these new laws?
 

TheTony

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2005
1,418
1
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The voter id issue is a non-starter. Anyone who suggests it is an issue is denying reality and there'd be folks from a few think-tanks interested if you can substantiate their claims. Every supposed example has been disproved. Perhaps more laughable is that nearly everyone who claims it is a non-partisan issue...is a blatant partisan.

Does this mean that corruption in elections does not exist? Certainly not - to think so is probably naive. However, tampering with the vote is not happening, with intent, at the voter level. It is far more likely (and more effective, obviously) at the precinct/election judge/ballot count level. NONE of the most obvious ways to undermine elections are addressable with more stringent voter ID laws.
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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There is no voter suppression. There is only brainwashing by the media. The media conveniently hides the truth.