As a Republican how do you defend voter suppression?

[cybrsage]

😕

So you claim it is a massive problem, and must be addressed, but can never show that it ever truly is a problem in the first place?

Nope. I am saying it is stupid to claim it is not a problem when no one can explain to me how to show in person voter fraud when you are not allowed to verify the identity of the person voting in person.

Can you tell me how one could prove in person voter fraud when you are not allowed to verify the identity of the person voting in person? And no, an easily forged signature (shown to you when you write yours) is not a verification of identity - if it was, then there would be no one successfully using stolen credit cards - so don't bother mentioned that failure.

Give it a shot, tell us how to prove in person voter fraud when the identity of the person voting in person is not allowed to be verified.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Personally I say that voting rights should be restricted to current Goldman/JPM boardmembers.

The results would be the same, and the rest of us would be spared from having to watch insipid political theater every other year.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I'm guessing this will remain my favorite. How true...

 

[cybrsage]

Yeh- Disenfranchisement? Who cares? Just fuck 'em, right?

Yet we have voter registration disenfranchising people and you do not care. You have not bothered to rail against it and you KNOW requiring voter registration disenfranchises otherwise legitimate voters.

Hypocrisy, they name is Jhhnn.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yet we have voter registration disenfranchising people and you do not care. You have not bothered to rail against it and you KNOW requiring voter registration disenfranchises otherwise legitimate voters.

Hypocrisy, they name is Jhhnn.

You have never shown any mechanism by which registration disenfranchises anybody, particularly when same day registration is allowed.

Have at it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Nope. I am saying it is stupid to claim it is not a problem when no one can explain to me how to show in person voter fraud when you are not allowed to verify the identity of the person voting in person.

Can you tell me how one could prove in person voter fraud when you are not allowed to verify the identity of the person voting in person? And no, an easily forged signature (shown to you when you write yours) is not a verification of identity - if it was, then there would be no one successfully using stolen credit cards - so don't bother mentioned that failure.

Give it a shot, tell us how to prove in person voter fraud when the identity of the person voting in person is not allowed to be verified.

Your credit card analogy sucks. Thieves have a lot to gain personally from using stolen credit cards. There are no such personal gains wrt in person voter fraud. Nor is it like a potential fraudster has a copy of the voter's signature for practice, as is the case with stolen credit cards. Go ahead, tell me you can instantly forge a signature, any signature at random that you've never seen before. Then tell me you could be absolutely sure the person whose signature you're forging won't show up later in the day to vote themselves.

Righties have concocted a lot of fanciful scenarios whereby voter fraud would be undetectable, none of which hold up in light of their intense efforts to prove that it's a widespread problem.

All this stuff is a matter of public record, so if massive voter fraud existed, it'd be easy enough to prove it after the fact. The fact that voter Id ravers are still coming up almost entirely empty handed after enormous effort tells us that they're hunting bigfoot...

It's not like anybody has suggested *no* ID as acceptable, either, that we want to allow your false scenario to exist in the first place.

 

[cybrsage]

You have never shown any mechanism by which registration disenfranchises anybody, particularly when same day registration is allowed.

Have at it.

Easy, almost every state does NOT have same day registration. You can toss that away, since it applies to almost no one. You make yourself look sillier than normal when you pretend it does.

Next, if you do not register in time, you are not allowed to vote. If that is the only thing preventing you from voting, guess what it did - it suppressed your vote!

Here, let me try again, using a different approach:

Let us pretend you live in California (a heavily dem state). Let us pretend you are also a big procrastinator. After saying "I will register to vote tomorrow" for many months, you decided today that you will register to vote. So, happy that you are motivated, you go here:

http://registertovote.ca.gov/

Skipping right to the bottom, you click the big button. You click next after selecting resident, then next, then next again. It then asks for a bunch of info, but you can say you do not have any of it but your birthdate so you do. You hit Next, fill in the CAPTCHA, Next, Next, Next, Next. Print, Sign, Mail.

Happy, you go about your business of smoking weed or whatever other useless things you do.

November 6th comes about and you go into the election place to vote. They tell you that you cannot vote since you registered after the deadline.

Registration Deadline

The deadline to register to vote for the November 6 election is October 22 at 11:59:59 p.m. PDT. If you submit an application after this time, your application will still be processed for future elections.

Your are officially a victim of voter suppression! CONGRATS!


I hope this helped you understand. I chose California because it is a liberal/DNC haven so you cannot blame the GOP for the voter suppression - it is firmly the DNC's fault.

 

[Jhhnn]

Easy, almost every state does NOT have same day registration. You can toss that away, since it applies to almost no one. You make yourself look sillier than normal when you pretend it does.

Next, if you do not register in time, you are not allowed to vote. If that is the only thing preventing you from voting, guess what it did - it suppressed your vote!

Here, let me try again, using a different approach:

Let us pretend you live in California (a heavily dem state). Let us pretend you are also a big procrastinator. After saying "I will register to vote tomorrow" for many months, you decided today that you will register to vote. So, happy that you are motivated, you go here:

http://registertovote.ca.gov/

Skipping right to the bottom, you click the big button. You click next after selecting resident, then next, then next again. It then asks for a bunch of info, but you can say you do not have any of it but your birthdate so you do. You hit Next, fill in the CAPTCHA, Next, Next, Next, Next. Print, Sign, Mail.

Happy, you go about your business of smoking weed or whatever other useless things you do.

November 6th comes about and you go into the election place to vote. They tell you that you cannot vote since you registered after the deadline.



Your are officially a victim of voter suppression! CONGRATS!


I hope this helped you understand. I chose California because it is a liberal/DNC haven so you cannot blame the GOP for the voter suppression - it is firmly the DNC's fault.

So you're arguing for same day registration?

 

[ivwshane]

So you're arguing for same day registration?

Sounds like it and yet I don't see how voter ID laws help that.

 

[cybrsage]

So you're arguing for same day registration?

Sounds like it and yet I don't see how voter ID laws help that.

No, I am exposing the hypocrisy of those who claim they are against voter ID due to voter supression while at the same time are for voter registration and the voter suppression is blatantly causes.

My views are irrelevant to exposing the hypocrisy in the views of almost everyone against voter ID.

 

[Jhhnn]

No, I am exposing the hypocrisy of those who claim they are against voter ID due to voter supression while at the same time are for voter registration and the voter suppression is blatantly causes.

My views are irrelevant to exposing the hypocrisy in the views of almost everyone against voter ID.

No you're not. You're just creating false equivalency, as usual.

Registration requires a few minutes of one's time & a stamp to convenience yourself. Sometimes you don't even need a stamp with online registration. It provides useful information so that election officials can better allocate voting resources.

The only alternatives to registration are registration on demand, even on election day, or no registration at all. You support neither.

Strict voter ID requires that people already registered obtain state issued photo ID, pay for the documentation required if they don't already have it, (birth cert, marriage & divorce papers, proof of residency) spend hours at a sometimes remote location just so they can keep on doing what they've been doing, often for decades. Some people may not be able to obtain those documents at all, for financial reasons or because they never were issued a birth cert. Previous links illustrate a few examples.

The alternatives to strict voter ID requirements are the HAVA guidelines, under which cases of in person voter fraud have been shown to be negligible.

Strict voter ID advocates have never made a case that it's necessary, and probably never will. It's Iraqi WMD's all over again, but this time the target is American citizens' right to vote free of unnecessary restrictions & requirements.

 

[cybrsage]

No you're not. You're just creating false equivalency, as usual.

This is one of the things you claim when you realize you are caught and cannot lie your way out of it.

Registration requires a few minutes of one's time & a stamp to convenience yourself. Sometimes you don't even need a stamp with online registration. It provides useful information so that election officials can better allocate voting resources.

You "forgot" about my example. I made it very simple so even you could understand it. I am starting to think you have a medical condition which prevents you from remembering anything you previously read.

The only alternatives to registration are registration on demand, even on election day, or no registration at all. You support neither.

You would not know what I support, I have not made a statement about it. My support for or against is irrelevant to your support (and the other dems' support) of voter suppression via registration.

Your hypocrisy is exposed for all to see and it bothers you. You therefor "pretend" that voter suppression does not happen due to voter registration, even though we both know it does.

 

[lotus503]

This is one of the things you claim when you realize you are caught and cannot lie your way out of it.



You "forgot" about my example. I made it very simple so even you could understand it. I am starting to think you have a medical condition which prevents you from remembering anything you previously read.



You would not know what I support, I have not made a statement about it. My support for or against is irrelevant to your support (and the other dems' support) of voter suppression via registration.

Your hypocrisy is exposed for all to see and it bothers you. You therefor "pretend" that voter suppression does not happen due to voter registration, even though we both know it does.

The only thing we all see is you doing more of the same worthless banter.

I hope you have more value in your RL than you do here 🙂

 

[Jhhnn]

This is one of the things you claim when you realize you are caught and cannot lie your way out of it.



You "forgot" about my example. I made it very simple so even you could understand it. I am starting to think you have a medical condition which prevents you from remembering anything you previously read.



You would not know what I support, I have not made a statement about it. My support for or against is irrelevant to your support (and the other dems' support) of voter suppression via registration.

Your hypocrisy is exposed for all to see and it bothers you. You therefor "pretend" that voter suppression does not happen due to voter registration, even though we both know it does.

You're not fooling anybody, Cybr. If you have problems with the current registrations system, offer an alternative or admit to duh-version of false equivalency. Otherwise, you really have nothing to say.

I support advance registration to aid in the election process, and on the spot election day registration for stragglers. Explain how that suppresses voters.

 

[cybrsage]

I support advance registration...

There you go, you just said you support voter suppression. You can no longer claim you do not without being a liar.

 

[cybrsage]

The only thing we all see is you doing more of the same worthless banter.

I hope you have more value in your RL than you do here 🙂

Do you support voter registration?

 

[lotus503]

Do you support voter registration?

we have covered this already

 

[Jhhnn]

There you go, you just said you support voter suppression. You can no longer claim you do not without being a liar.

I'm embarrassed for you, Cybr, because you have no sense of shame or common decency, because there are no limits on your dishonesty.

I said I supported two things simultaneously, one of them being instant registration on demand. Not registered? Show up at your polling place, register & vote.

Explain how that's voter suppression.

 

[cybrsage]

we have covered this already

Is that a yes or a no?

 

[cybrsage]

I'm embarrassed for you, Cybr, because you have no sense of shame or common decency, because there are no limits on your dishonesty.

You have already set the bar very, very high wrt dishonestly. No one could ever hope to reach the level of dishonesty you routinely display. I accept your claim there are no limits on it, since you are an expect in dishonesty. I would never try to dispute you in that field.

I said I supported two things simultaneously, one of them being instant registration on demand. Not registered? Show up at your polling place, register & vote.

Explain how that's voter suppression.

You continue to say that the current systems do not cause voter suppression, giving your tacit approval to them. Do you finally admit that voter registration in almost every state is a form of voter suppression?

 

[Jhhnn]

You have already set the bar very, very high wrt dishonestly. No one could ever hope to reach the level of dishonesty you routinely display. I accept your claim there are no limits on it, since you are an expect in dishonesty. I would never try to dispute you in that field.

You continue to say that the current systems do not cause voter suppression, giving your tacit approval to them. Do you finally admit that voter registration in almost every state is a form of voter suppression?

I offer a solution to what you represent to be a problem. What solution do you offer?

Obviously none, which means you don't honestly see it as a problem at all. You're just dancing to the tune of false equivalency once again.

It's like this-

You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

If registration is a speck, then the sort of strict voter ID you advocate is obviously a log.

 

[boomerang]

This is out of control. Do we live in a free country anymore? Our president, Barack Obama, had to show ID to early vote in Chicago just yesterday. Had to show ID. The evil Republican racist train has now reached the top office in our land. I weep for our future.

 

[cybrsage]

You're just dancing to the tune of false equivalency once again.

Voter suppression is voter suppression. Just because someone likes one form of voter suppression does not mean it is not voter suppression.

Those who like this form of suppression then cry about another form are hypocrites. You have never once railed against voter registration as a form of voter suppression, then magically you suddenly almost care about it after confronted with your own hypocrisy - yet still do not call it out as evil.

Do you think voter registration is wrong and are willing to put the same amount of energy into stopping it as you have done for voter ID?

 

[Jhhnn]

Voter suppression is voter suppression. Just because someone likes one form of voter suppression does not mean it is not voter suppression.

Those who like this form of suppression then cry about another form are hypocrites. You have never once railed against voter registration as a form of voter suppression, then magically you suddenly almost care about it after confronted with your own hypocrisy - yet still do not call it out as evil.

Do you think voter registration is wrong and are willing to put the same amount of energy into stopping it as you have done for voter ID?

You're transparently dishonest. You've been challenged repeatedly to offer up the Cybr solution to the "voter suppression" you claim exists in the registration process, yet refuse to speak your mind on that, play it coy, use it as a diversion from much more important & pervasive issues related to voter suppression, like the strict voter ID you advocate to quell your fears of the boogeyman, some person voting when they shouldn't.

We have different ways to approach the registration issue-

1. The current methodology.
2. No registration, as in N Dakota.
3. Advance registration with instant on the spot registration for stragglers, which I support.
4. Any half-assed scheme you might dream up.

Pick one, or STFU. Really.

In person voter fraud is statistically insignificant, and you have yet to show any proof to the contrary. You rave on about it as if the fate of the Republic hangs in the balance, when that's far from true. We've done w/o strict voter ID for decades, and it's only become an issue because Repubs fear the power of marginalized groups actually voting.

Repub leaders know that their flock of know-nothings is losing the demographic battle even as their real constituency, the true Bush constituency, is winning the economic war they've waged for 30+ years. The only way to change that is politically, which why they do what they do to discourage & prevent adversarial groups from voting.

Unlike you, I want every American to vote. I'd like to see 100% turnout among citizens 18 & older, and I think that the way to approach that goal is to make voting a straightforward & painless process for all Americans who want to participate.

Conservatives oppose that- they always have & always will, because they know they're not a true majority, at all, but rather a highly organized & motivated minority. If everybody voted, Repubs would be crushed on the national level, relegated to the status of a regional party representing the most undeveloped rural parts of the country and a few wealthy districts. They won back the HOR with only 21% of eligible citizens voting for them, and they like that.

Yep, it's a conspiracy, an open conspiracy for democracy. We want all the people you don't want to vote to step up and vote, because it would push back the tide of right wing authoritarian filth you're a part of.

 

[monovillage]

This is out of control. Do we live in a free country anymore? Our president, Barack Obama, had to show ID to early vote in Chicago just yesterday. Had to show ID. The evil Republican racist train has now reached the top office in our land. I weep for our future.

Oh no, Obama would never support showing ID to vote, he'd never knuckle under the horrible bad evil wicked nasty mean bad republicans and whip out his own personal ID and flash it at a poll worker and thereby undermine what every whimpering partisan asshole of a democrat has been fighting against would he?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/26/obama-asked-to-show-id-to-vote.html

Yes, yes he would.

 

[Jhhnn]

Oh no, Obama would never support showing ID to vote, he'd never knuckle under the horrible bad evil wicked nasty mean bad republicans and whip out his own personal ID and flash it at a poll worker and thereby undermine what every whimpering partisan asshole of a democrat has been fighting against would he?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/26/obama-asked-to-show-id-to-vote.html

Yes, yes he would.

Sooo dishonest.

Illinois law is beyond his powers, first of all, and it's a compromise where early voting requires picture ID, while voting on election day does not.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/why-obama-was-asked-to-show-his-id

He's a busy guy, so he voted when it was convenient for him to do so.

For most people, picture ID isn't a problem, but it is for some Americans. Doesn't mean they're not Americans, or that they should legitimately be deprived of the right to vote because of it.