Ars Rips on intel with KL review

[Rifter]

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/01/intel-core-i7-7700k-kaby-lake-review/

"The Intel Core i7-7700K is what happens when a chip company stops trying. The i7-7700K is the first desktop Intel chip in brave new post-"tick-tock" world—which means that instead of major improvements to architecture, process, and instructions per clock (IPC), we get slightly higher clock speeds and a way to decode DRM-laden 4K streaming video. Huzzah."

I pretty much agree with them, intel calling this a new generation and not a 6xxx model is just plain wrong, its not a new generation any way intel tries to spin it.

 

[SpaceBeer]

Yes it is new generation. It is not the same as Skylake. IGP is different if nothing else. Locked models have higher clocks. Plus, intel has right to name its products whatever they like. They can say KL is from the future if they want. Customer on the other hand, has right to purchase or not to purchase their products. No one is forcing people to buy new CPU/PC. Intel also offers much better CPUs, such as Broadwell-E, AMD and VIA also have some x86 CPUs to offer, so customer has a choice

 

[Rifter]

Yes it is new generation. It is not the same as Skylake. IGP is different if nothing else. Locked models have higher clocks. Plus, intel has right to name its products whatever they like. They can say KL is from the future if they want. Customer on the other hand, has right to purchase or not to purchase their products. No one is forcing people to buy new CPU/PC. Intel also offers much better CPUs, such as Broadwell-E, AMD and VIA also have some x86 CPUs to offer, so customer has a choice

Except even the IGP is not different, all they did was add playready support, there are no architectural changes to the IGP and there isnt even a clock speed boost to the IGP. They just called the IGP a 630 to sucker people into thinking its new but its really the same as the 530.

 

[LTC8K6]

I don't understand the upset at KL at all. You don't have to buy anything from Intel, and it's been no secret that KL was the same core as SL.

It was detailed long ago that KL was a clock speed, media engine, and power improvement to SL, and that the performance increases would be in the mobile chips.

That's exactly what was delivered.

 

[RichUK]

I don't understand the upset at KL at all. You don't have to buy anything from Intel, and it's been no secret that KL was the same core as SL.

It was detailed long ago that KL was a clock speed, media engine, and power improvement to SL, and that the performance increases would be in the mobile chips.

That's exactly what was delivered.

I finally got a 5Ghz setup that is stable, so I am happy.

But I'm a numbers whore (the i3 was still good enough for my usage).

 

[Rifter]

I don't understand the upset at KL at all. You don't have to buy anything from Intel, and it's been no secret that KL was the same core as SL.

It was detailed long ago that KL was a clock speed, media engine, and power improvement to SL, and that the performance increases would be in the mobile chips.

That's exactly what was delivered.

Its pretty easy to understand, you used to be able to count on at least a 5% minimum gain from a new CPU generation, now they are re branding old CPU's and dressing them up as new with 0 improvements. I dont think its to much to ask for new generations to actually be new.

 

[daxzy]

Its pretty easy to understand, you used to be able to count on at least a 5% minimum gain from a new CPU generation, now they are re branding old CPU's and dressing them up as new with 0 improvements. I dont think its to much to ask for new generations to actually be new.

If it was a 5% IPC gain, you'd have people whining about how that is not enough to justify for an upgrade anyways. Skylake over Haswell was about 10-15%.

For desktop, its just a clock speed bump, but the HVEC/VP9 decode combined with higher clocks per TDP is actually quite useful on mobile.

 

[NTMBK]

Zen will be here soon, for anyone looking for an alternative.

 

[Rifter]

Zen will be here soon, for anyone looking for an alternative.

Thank god, something needs to get intels head back in the game, cause right now they are coasting.

 

[John Carmack]

Interesting difference in the audiences of that site and this site. Over there saying nope this isn't a new generation, just a new Skylake stepping with minor GPU update is a top-rated comment but over here saying the 7700K is really a 6701K or 6790K will get people (perhaps the louder voices) blaming you for expecting more from a 1000 bump in model number.

 

[Rifter]

Interesting difference in the audiences of that site and this site. Over there saying nope this isn't a new generation, just a new Skylake stepping with minor GPU update is a top-rated comment but over here saying the 7700K is really a 6701K or 6790K will get people (perhaps the louder voices) blaming you for expecting more from a 1000 bump in model number.

That just means they are smarter than most of us and see a rebranded SL for what it is.

 

[Nereus77]

So Kaby Lake is more like a Devil's Canyon 2.

 

[RichUK]

So Kaby Lake is more like a Devil's Canyon 2.

How do you work that one out?

 

[Rifter]

So Kaby Lake is more like a Devil's Canyon 2.

Not really, DC they did right IMO going from a 4700k to a 4790k, they didnt try and pawn it off as a new generation.

 

[LTC8K6]

Interesting difference in the audiences of that site and this site. Over there saying nope this isn't a new generation, just a new Skylake stepping with minor GPU update is a top-rated comment but over here saying the 7700K is really a 6701K or 6790K will get people (perhaps the louder voices) blaming you for expecting more from a 1000 bump in model number.

I'm not blaming anybody, I just don't understand how anyone could have expected a performance jump.

Heck, posters here have been saying for a long time that if you have a 6700K, then you shouldn't upgrade to KL.

I think most posters here were just paying more attention to KL reporting.

I build computers as a hobby, and for that hobby I spend money and time simply for enjoyment, so I will check out and build with KL and Zen, even though I have no need for anything new.

 

[dahorns]

Eh, its from the Ars UK staff. I have always been disappointed in their articles and this is no different. It is very shallow review. Performance is performance whether it comes from IPC or clock speed. Fact is that KL is clocked higher by default, appears to overclock better, and offers better sustained performance.

Further, generations are just marketing terms, so I'm not sure why anyone cares what Intel calls it. It is the next processor and it offers 5-10% better performance. Full stop. That is basically the same thing you could say for Intel's last several generations of processors on desktop. I guess Intel could have gone AMD's route and gone backwards in performance for a few years and then make a sudden jump to catch up. Apparently some people like that sort of thing, but I don't believe it is praise worthy or superior to a consistent march of progress.

 

[crashtech]

I have to admit that right until the end I thought they were going to tweak the uarch and get at least a tiny IPC bump.

 

[Rifter]

I have to admit that right until the end I thought they were going to tweak the uarch and get at least a tiny IPC bump.

Honestly i would have been happy with even a good increase to the IGP, they were adding playready support anyways it would have been a great time to update the IGP get some more performance from it especially since most of the SL/KL rebrand seems to be aimed at mobile anyways this was a missed opportunity by intel. Guess its easier to slap a sticker on a old product than actually put any time/money into improving it. Will be very interesting to see how they respond to Zen, this sitting on their butts and doing nothing is not going to cut it for much longer.

 

[dahorns]

Honestly i would have been happy with even a good increase to the IGP, they were adding playready support anyways it would have been a great time to update the IGP get some more performance from it especially since most of the SL/KL rebrand seems to be aimed at mobile anyways this was a missed opportunity by intel. Guess its easier to slap a sticker on a old product than actually put any time/money into improving it. Will be very interesting to see how they respond to Zen, this sitting on their butts and doing nothing is not going to cut it for much longer.

But they did get more performance out of the igpu, at least in mobile.

 

[Yakk]

Intel elected to go status quo in terms of performance this generation. Not a bad decision for them as they are/were alone in that performance bracket, hopefully competition will help restart innovation.

That being said, if Zen delivers, I may be tempted to make my first personal complete new build in over 7 years. Progress has been slow to say the least.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I'm not blaming anybody, I just don't understand how anyone could have expected a performance jump.

Because Intel could give us such a jump and refuse to.

Put two more cores on the chip for the same price and its the best deal in CPUs since Conroe was first sold.

 

[Rifter]

Because Intel could give us such a jump and refuse to.

Put two more cores on the chip for the same price and its the best deal in CPUs since Conroe was first sold.

Exactly, i think it says alot about the management, or lack there of, at intel right now that they are letting AMD beat them to the 4+ cores on mainstream platform punch when they could have for sure beat them to it with KL if they had so decided.

 

[RichUK]

Because Intel could give us such a jump and refuse to.

Put two more cores on the chip for the same price and its the best deal in CPUs since Conroe was first sold.

They need to get rid of the iGPU and use that silicon for an additional two cores, but I guess they are trying to sweat the mainstream 4 cores for as long as possible.

On the other-hand, my requirements / workloads don't require more cores, so additional frequency headroom in lieu of increased IPC works for me.

 

[krumme]

If it was a 5% IPC gain, you'd have people whining about how that is not enough to justify for an upgrade anyways. Skylake over Haswell was about 10-15%.

For desktop, its just a clock speed bump, but the HVEC/VP9 decode combined with higher clocks per TDP is actually quite useful on mobile.

So much misunderstanding of ipc
"
Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge: Average ~5.8% Up
Ivy Bridge to Haswell: Average ~11.2% Up
Haswell to Broadwell: Average ~3.3% Up
Broadwell to Skylake (DDR3): Average ~2.4% Up
Broadwell to Skylake (DDR4): Average ~2.7% Up
"
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-6700k-6600k-ddr4-ddr3-ipc-6th-generation/9

The progress is always exagerated. But having multiple generation tested paint the right picture.

 

[moonbogg]

KL's increased clockspeed and OCability aren't as exciting as they would have been 4 or 5 years ago. The reason is that if you game, some games are starting to take advantage of more cores in a substantial way. Its like when I had my core 2 Duo and couldn't understand why Battlefield Bad Company 2 wouldn't break 50fps on an empty map in the desert and dropped down to 15fps in certain areas, despite being clocked at 4ghz.
I still thought clocks peed was the only game in town, yet my friend with a much "slower" quad was getting much better performance. I think we have entered a new phase similar to that one. So, I see 5ghz KL and my first thought is, "Oh awesome, a solid 5ghz chip with good IPC". My very next thought is, "Yeah but only 4 cores, so...".
Quad core CPU's have now exited the enthusiast building. They are OK for general use, most gaming, and people who like to go for big OC's simply for the sake of having 5ghz will enjoy them, but not the hardcore people and not the enthusiasts. No gaming enthusiast or general PC enthusiast can any longer justify yet another quad core CPU. They really are the new dual cores and KL is just about as pathetic of a release as I have ever personally seen, besides Bulldozer.
I swear to god Zen is going to kick the crap out of this thing. The only area where KL can do better is lightly threaded work loads and most older games, but going forward the faster quad is a bad bet. Zen is where its going to be at for a good long while.