Ars Rips on intel with KL review

[NTMBK]

Weird in those threads with the denial of the HT pointlessness. People started saying its important on i3s...but don't i3s have extra cache and clockspeed over pentium dual cores making it the same Apples to Oranges comparison?

Speaking from experience, I've written very memory bandwidth intensive, highly multithreaded code which benefits a great deal from Hyperthreading. Run on the exact same CPU (apart from HT being enabled/disabled), I've seen it add ~15% performance.

Depends on the use case, but if your code is often stalling on fetches from main memory you will probably see improvements.

 

[TheELF]

Weird in those threads with the denial of the HT pointlessness. People started saying its important on i3s...but don't i3s have extra cache and clockspeed over pentium dual cores making it the same Apples to Oranges comparison?

Disable HT on an i3 and compare some well threaded games...
(or just use affinity to restrict the game to two cores)
you will get double the FPS with HT working,cache and clockspeeds are just the gravy.

 

[inf64]

Disable HT on an i3 and compare some well threaded games...
(or just use affinity to restrict the game to two cores)
you will get double the FPS with HT working,cache and clockspeeds are just the gravy.

Sorry to tell this to you, but nobody sane will buy dual core SMT enabled chip in 2017 for gaming on a budget build. Not with quoted i3/pentium KL prices when something way better is coming for a bit more $$ . 8 threads for a slight bump in price, unlocked, high IPC core. No comparison, they will lose it in this segment (also )

 

[PingSpike]

Speaking from experience, I've written very memory bandwidth intensive, highly multithreaded code which benefits a great deal from Hyperthreading. Run on the exact same CPU (apart from HT being enabled/disabled), I've seen it add ~15% performance.

Depends on the use case, but if your code is often stalling on fetches from main memory you will probably see improvements.

That's kind of what I expect out of it, on certain specific types of workloads it makes a noticeable but somewhat marginal difference. But its always been put as a big selling point feature in the Intel lineup that I never thought should really command a premium. And because its paired with cache or clockspeed boosts this myth has grown up that its the HT that is actually making the difference. If those gaming tests are to be believed, its actually a double edged sword that sometimes harms performance just by being enabled.

 

[LTC8K6]

Sorry to tell this to you, but nobody sane will buy dual core SMT enabled chip in 2017 for gaming on a budget build. Not with quoted i3/pentium KL prices when something way better is coming for a bit more $$ . 8 threads for a slight bump in price, unlocked, high IPC core. No comparison, they will lose it in this segment (also )

Just a bit more than the $64 cost of a KL Pentium?

 

[inf64]

Just a bit more than the $64 cost of a KL Pentium?

~100 or so bucks for nearly 2x more performance in CPU intensive workloads? I would go for it, wouldn't you?
BTW is that KL Pentium unlocked? If you cannot OC it then 3.5Ghz is worthless for gaming on a budget since you don't get 4 real cores like in an i5.

 

[lolfail9001]

Sorry to tell this to you, but nobody sane will buy dual core SMT enabled chip in 2017 for gaming on a budget build. Not with quoted i3/pentium KL prices when something way better is coming for a bit more $$ . 8 threads for a slight bump in price, unlocked, high IPC core. No comparison, they will lose it in this segment (also )

So, you have AMD's price list already? Care to share? Telling you last time: if Zen performs as matching i7, it will be priced in the area of matching i7, not significantly below.

~100 or so bucks for nearly 2x more performance in CPU intensive workloads? I would go for it, wouldn't you?
BTW is that KL Pentium unlocked? If you cannot OC it then 3.5Ghz is worthless for gaming on a budget since you don't get 4 real cores like in an i5.

Yeah, except it is 70 bucks, good luck beating it for value.

 

[LTC8K6]

~100 or so bucks for nearly 2x more performance in CPU intensive workloads? I would go for it, wouldn't you?
BTW is that KL Pentium unlocked? If you cannot OC it then 3.5Ghz is worthless for gaming on a budget since you don't get 4 real cores like in an i5.

You already know you can get an unlocked RyZen chip for ~$100?

And that it will have 2X the performance of what Intel offers in that ballpark? Which would be a 3.9ghz i3.

 

[krumme]

So, you have AMD's price list already? Care to share? Telling you last time: if Zen performs as matching i7, it will be priced in the area of matching i7, not significantly below.
.

Ok better tell amd because then it looks to me they named their zen sr3 sr5 sr7 wrong

 

[Sweepr]

Sorry to tell this to you, but nobody sane will buy dual core SMT enabled chip in 2017 for gaming on a budget build.

For $64 it is a much better alternative than anything AMD got in their APU lineup in terms of CPU perf/$ and upgrading path, and will have no competition till H2-2017 at the earliest. And yes, Core i3-6100 like performance will be more than enough for >99% use cases of budget users running $100-200 dGPUs, as stated by people who actually own 2C/4T Skylake/Kaby Lake, which is not your case.

Not with quoted i3/pentium KL prices when something way better is coming for a bit more $$ . 8 threads for a slight bump in price, unlocked, high IPC core. No comparison, they will lose it in this segment (also )

Again confusing what you wish for what is likely to happen, some people never learn. Not everybody shopping for $60-80 CPUs is willing to spend 2-3x as much, even if that gives them much better performance (be it Intel or AMD).

 

[LTC8K6]

It wouldn't make any sense to sell an i7 competitor too much below i7 prices, though.

I can't imagine AMD undercutting the i7 that much, especially if the Sr7 chip has more actual cores.

AMD should be selling on performance, not price.

 

[Arachnotronic]

~100 or so bucks for nearly 2x more performance in CPU intensive workloads? I would go for it, wouldn't you?
BTW is that KL Pentium unlocked? If you cannot OC it then 3.5Ghz is worthless for gaming on a budget since you don't get 4 real cores like in an i5.

This CPU is great for a budget general purpose + gaming rig. Put a decent GPU in the system, hook it up to a cheap 1080p monitor, and it'll play anything you want.

Not sure why you are ripping on this CPU so harshly.

 

[inf64]

Of course it is good for the money , no doubt about it. But dual core in 2017 in a budget build? SMT cannot replace real cores, it can help somewhat. One cannot simply ignore elephant in the room. And another, greater elephant is coming in H2 2017, with great iGPU and likely lower price for same core/thread count.

 

[Rifter]

We may want to wait untill Zen actually launches before speculating on prices and making comparisons to i3's, i expect there lowest end CPU to be in the $75-150 range but this has yet to be verified.

But the people suggesting a dual core for gaming in 2017 are pretty funny.

 

[RichUK]

We may want to wait untill Zen actually launches before speculating on prices and making comparisons to i3's, i expect there lowest end CPU to be in the $75-150 range but this has yet to be verified.

But the people suggesting a dual core for gaming in 2017 are pretty funny.

Depends what games you play and the settings / frames you expect. 1080p 60FPS on an i3 is fine.

 

[Ken g6]

You already know you can get an unlocked RyZen chip for ~$100?

When? Newegg shows 0 results for "ryzen"

Not that you can get all of these chips now either. But I really do wonder when each of these chips will be available.

 

[TheELF]

But dual core in 2017 in a budget build?

That's why they are called budged builds,you go for cheap components.

SMT cannot replace real cores,

It doesn't have to replace real cores,it only has to replace butchered half breed jaguar CMT cores (that run at ~1,5Ghz)

Also here is a old test of i3 with and without HT running older games that are not as well threaded as todays.
Huge improvement especially for min FPS and that's on a very early implementation of HT in most cases the i3+ht matches the real quad(and even the real quad+ht since most games don't scale much beyond 4 threads)
http://techbuyersguru.com/dual-core-quad-core-and-hyperthreading-benchmark-analysis?page=1

 

[inf64]

It doesn't have to replace real cores,it only has to replace butchered half breed jaguar CMT cores (that run at ~1,5Ghz)

Also here is a old test of i3 with and without HT running older games that are not as well threaded as todays.
Huge improvement especially for min FPS and that's on a very early implementation of HT in most cases the i3+ht matches the real quad(and even the real quad+ht since most games don't scale much beyond 4 threads)
http://techbuyersguru.com/dual-core-quad-core-and-hyperthreading-benchmark-analysis?page=1

Jaguar is not CMT core , just FYI. Just like Zen is not CMT (like you claimed in another thread).
Yes, SMT brings improvements to fps but still it is not a real core replacement. That is why i5 is an order of magnitude better chip for games than i3.

 

[LTC8K6]

When? Newegg shows 0 results for "ryzen"

Not that you can get all of these chips now either. But I really do wonder when each of these chips will be available.

What in the world caused you to check Newegg for RyZen?

 

[Ken g6]

What in the world caused you to check Newegg for RyZen?

What, I should have checked Amazon? (Nothing but FX there.)

You were acting like getting a RyZen processor was a viable option now or in the very near future. When will it be a viable option? A Kaby Lake Pentium says it's "launched", but I can't find any in stores either. Does either company even have an official availability date for either product?

The real point is, how long will Kaby Lake Pentiums be available while RyZen is not? I'm guessing 0-6 months.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Of course it is good for the money , no doubt about it. But dual core in 2017 in a budget build? SMT cannot replace real cores, it can help somewhat. One cannot simply ignore elephant in the room. And another, greater elephant is coming in H2 2017, with great iGPU and likely lower price for same core/thread count.

H2'17? I don't know of any desktop APUs that will be superior.

Raven Ridge for desktop is likely 1H 2018

 

[LTC8K6]

What, I should have checked Amazon? (Nothing but FX there.)

You were acting like getting a RyZen processor was a viable option now or in the very near future.

You missed the question marks.

I was asking Info64 questions.

He is the one who apparently knows RyZen performance, pricing, and availability, and the future of 2C/4T processors...

 

[Ken g6]

You missed the question marks.

I was asking Info64 questions.

He is the one who apparently knows RyZen performance, pricing, and availability, and the future of 2C/4T processors...

That I did. Sorry.

Looking that far back, I also think he meant RyZen would be ~$100 more than this Pentium. But maybe I missed something there too.

 

[sm625]

It really should have been called 6790K.

 

[Ajay]

It really should have been called 6790K.

That would have made sense if Intel didn't redo there whole line up as Kabylake, but, of course, they did.