Armed Militia Members take over Federal Building in Oregon

[zinfamous]

Because the same people keep trying to play the same card over and over again.

If you don't see this trend then you are blind:

1: When a thread starts up about a non-white male doing something bad, someone has to come in and talk about how a white person did something bad once too. Dont' ask me why that is just what makes them feel better.

2: When a thread about a bad white person comes along it's "why isn't this person being referred to as" insert whatever makes blankslate feel good about himself.

While racist conservatives and reverse racist liberals are figuring out color and name labels I am just looking at the bad actions.

I still don't know what reverse racism is.

 

[zinfamous]

I think calling them what they are might, just might stop them from acting out in similar ways in the future. Simple as that.

Oh and this....

________________

awesome.

 

[TheSlamma]

I still don't know what reverse racism is.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Reverse+racism

Don't get in a tizzy cause I want to just move forward. For me it's hard that "All lives matter" is now associated with racism because I think they do.


I think this kids life mattered and I posted about it
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2231467&

And I think this kids life mattered too
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2436383&

 

[DrDoug]

There's a good article up at OregonLive.com where they interview the sheriff of Harney County about what is going on. The short is steps are being taken to resolve the situation, the feds are taking the lead with Oregon resources concentrated on keeping the peace elsewhere and he's encouraging the militants to leave the area and return home. Regarding what the community thinks:

Ward has scheduled a community meeting for Wednesday afternoon at the Harney County fairgrounds. He wants to confront rumors, provide information and take questions. He said people are upset about the occupation and want it over.

An "occupation" is exactly what it is. An armed occupation by militants who want to take over and run the county as they see fit. As long as the law acts responsibly (and good luck with that given history), it's really on them if this ends peacefully or not. They know that what they are doing can not and will not be allowed by the federal government.

They made the first stupid decision in going to a fight expecting logistical support and got little to none. Their second stupid decision was to double down after being rejected by the 'cityfolk' and take over a empty federal wildlife reserve with no logistical support, instead choosing to appeal to outsiders like them to come to our state and back them up. Right now I'm not very confident that these men will make the right decision in ending this peacefully due to the fact that their 'warrior' lives seem to be nothing but one bad decision after another.

This whole thing is stupid and it took some really gawdawful stupid fuckers to think that this was a brilliant plan.

ETA: Regarding whoever thought this was a brilliant plan, I just remembered that Ammon Bundy said God told him to go to Oregon...lol!

 

[HomerJS]

Because the same people keep trying to play the same card over and over again.

If you don't see this trend then you are blind:

1: When a thread starts up about a non-white male doing something bad, someone has to come in and talk about how a white person did something bad once too. Dont' ask me why that is just what makes them feel better.

2: When a thread about a bad white person comes along it's "why isn't this person being referred to as" insert whatever makes blankslate feel good about himself.

While racist conservatives and reverse racist liberals are figuring out color and name labels I am just looking at the bad actions.

You omitted the most common response. Terrorist and thug are thrown around absent evidence.

 

[DrDoug]

This comment by the sheriff made me lol:

“I think if one person gives them a Snickers bar, they’re going on national media and claiming that the community supports them”

I like this guy. :biggrin:

As the person who quoted it said: "That’s not too far from the “Do Not Feed the Animals” sign at the zoo."

 

[Jhhnn]

This comment by the sheriff made me lol:

I like this guy. :biggrin:

As the person who quoted it said: "That’s not too far from the “Do Not Feed the Animals” sign at the zoo."

That was a brilliant way to pre-empt the bullshit. The sheriff is no dummy.

Let the feds handle the situation at the visitor center. It's govt property, after all. Then do your best to shield the community from any stupid shitstorm fallout that might occur. Act normal. Coming or going, just let militia guys go right on by if they're not breaking the law.

Well, if there even are any more headed that way. If anybody is turned back by the feds I'm sure everybody will hear about it in short order. What if nobody comes? What if the feds just let 'em leave when they get cold enough & hungry enough?

 

[feralkid]

Jackbooted Feds attempt to apprehend Tarp-Dude.

Don't Tread on #Tarp-Dude!



.

 

[DrDoug]

That was a brilliant way to pre-empt the bullshit. The sheriff is no dummy.

Let the feds handle the situation at the visitor center. It's govt property, after all. Then do your best to shield the community from any stupid shitstorm fallout that might occur. Act normal. Coming or going, just let militia guys go right on by if they're not breaking the law.

Well, if there even are any more headed that way. If anybody is turned back by the feds I'm sure everybody will hear about it in short order. What if nobody comes? What if the feds just let 'em leave when they get cold enough & hungry enough?

Yup, great preemption on his part. Contrast that with the sheriff of Clark County, Nevada who did squat and two cops ended up getting killed in a local shop by a couple of the gun nuts. The sheriff doing this not only lets the locals know that he is on top of it but he is sending a message to the locals that he isn't going to tolerate supporting this crap. He might not be able to stop locals from assisting the rebels without a clue but I'm sure he has his own personal Shit List that he keeps score on for future reference.

He's smart to let the feds handle it and assist them if requested, otherwise focus on keeping the peace in the rest of the county. He's also making their job easier for them, unlike the CC sheriff in Nevada.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yup, great preemption on his part. Contrast that with the sheriff of Clark County, Nevada who did squat and two cops ended up getting killed in a local shop by a couple of the gun nuts. The sheriff doing this not only lets the locals know that he is on top of it but he is sending a message to the locals that he isn't going to tolerate supporting this crap. He might not be able to stop locals from assisting the rebels without a clue but I'm sure he has his own personal Shit List that he keeps score on for future reference.

He's smart to let the feds handle it and assist them if requested, otherwise focus on keeping the peace in the rest of the county. He's also making their job easier for them, unlike the CC sheriff in Nevada.

I don't see it quite that way. I don't think that the occupiers have any support from the locals at all. The militiamen are likely seen as boneheaded outside agitators that they don't want to have anything to do with- Damned fools trying to get themselves killed.

Whatever help the militiamen get will have to come from old friends because they didn't make any new ones in that neck of the woods.

 

[DrDoug]

I don't see it quite that way. I don't think that the occupiers have any support from the locals at all. The militiamen are likely seen as boneheaded outside agitators that they don't want to have anything to do with- Damned fools trying to get themselves killed.

Whatever help the militiamen get will have to come from old friends because they didn't make any new ones in that neck of the woods.

I'm not saying that any locals are supporting the morons, I'm saying that the sheriff is just making it clear to anybody in the community that might decide to get stupid later on.

I don't think anybody there welcomes their invasion. Nobody. Stone cold.

ETA: The sheriff pretty much describes how the locals see it:

"A peaceful demonstration – that's a positive, proactive American thing," the sheriff said. Though they had "made people feel uncomfortable," the militants to that point "hadn't really broken any laws," he said.
The occupation, however, "was a game changer," Ward said. It occurred on a day that marked his first anniversary as sheriff.
Whatever positive message the protesters created turned negative, he said.
The militants weren't in town on behalf of the soon-to-be-imprisoned ranchers, he said. "I believe the Hammonds were exploited by these people," he said.

 

[Vic]

I don't see it quite that way. I don't think that the occupiers have any support from the locals at all. The militiamen are likely seen as boneheaded outside agitators that they don't want to have anything to do with- Damned fools trying to get themselves killed.

Whatever help the militiamen get will have to come from old friends because they didn't make any new ones in that neck of the woods.

The locals are sympathetic to the Hammonds' plight, but not the Bundys.

 

[Jaskalas]

Occupation...

Criminal trespassing, illegal entry, etc...
Possessing a gun in the commission of a crime... across state lines... felony, yeah?
Conspiracy to commit this felony (group activity)

The criminal charges could be quite immense.

 

[Jaepheth]

"Hey guys, let's dig in for a prolonged occupation as winter approaches" -Napoleon, 1812 (Apocryphal)

 

[DrDoug]

Jackbooted Feds attempt to apprehend Tarp-Dude.

Don't Tread on #Tarp-Dude!



.

#Tarp-Dude! is ready!

 

[Slew Foot]

if ISIS is the JV, these guys are the freshman club team. i admit i laughed at "cowliphate", i suppose "calfilate" works as well.

 

[Zorba]

Occupation...

Criminal trespassing, illegal entry, etc...
Possessing a gun in the commission of a crime... across state lines... felony, yeah?
Conspiracy to commit this felony (group activity)

The criminal charges could be quite immense.

Don't forget wearing body armor in the commission of a crime, also a felony, at least here.

Back in 2004 there was a nut that was running for governor, who got a ticket for block traffic with a bike trailer with a large ad on it, since he was wearing a bullet proof vest (because people had been throwing stuff at him and threatening him) he got charged with a felony.

 

[lopri]

I have not read the thread but it looks like the dudes got unbelievably lenient punishments for their crimes by the trial judge, which were swiftly (and rightfully) reversed by the appeals court. Is that why they got pissed and decided to act?

 

[DrDoug]

I have not read the thread but it looks like the dudes got unbelievably lenient punishments for their crimes by the trial judge, which were swiftly (and rightfully) reversed by the appeals court. Is that why they got pissed and decided to act?

People here in Oregon think that the two were initially sentenced too leniently but also agree that the "terrorism" enhancement to the sentence (five year min) was too much. The problem is the initial judge tried to use discretion in sentencing, contrary to the law. All that was going on locally was the two men were upset at having their illegal sentences vacated and then heading back to court for re-sentencing according to the law. The local farm org put out a petition to help drive attention to the unfairness of the minimum sentence and the Bundy Brigade picked up on it and tried to use it to pump up their own movement. Some of the locals were fine with the protesters but they lost the them once they struck out on their own and took over the preserve. Once it was clear that they were not there to support the Hammonds, they got the cold shoulder.

The Hammonds have cooperated and complied with the law at every point. Bundy and his Brigade? Not so much.

 

[alcoholbob]

I have not read the thread but it looks like the dudes got unbelievably lenient punishments for their crimes by the trial judge, which were swiftly (and rightfully) reversed by the appeals court. Is that why they got pissed and decided to act?

I think it also has to do with the BLM chomping at the bits to seize their property, and BLM doesnt have the greatest track record (like in the past flooding lands of people who wouldnt sell their land to the BLM in order to destroy their property values so they have no choice but to sell to the BLM). Of course I'm not saying the BLM is somehow a unique agency in that regard since most of the things they did was tame compared to what the US government did to seize land during westward expansion to build the transcontinental railroad.

 

[lopri]

Hmm.. it looks like these two are a lot worse than you give credit for. And I came to that conclusion by a cursory reading of their lawyer's account of the event. (who, by the way, seems to have known that his clients would receive lenient sentences from the judge for whatever reason..)

http://landrights.org/or/Hammond/Ha...for-Writ-of-Certiorari-Filed-June-17-2013.pdf

 

[DrDoug]

Hmm.. it looks like these two are a lot worse than you give credit for. And I came to that conclusion by a cursory reading of their lawyer's account of the event. (who, by the way, seems to have known that his clients would receive lenient sentences from the judge for whatever reason..)

http://landrights.org/or/Hammond/Ha...for-Writ-of-Certiorari-Filed-June-17-2013.pdf

Their history is well known in the state. You don't get a fire named after your family without garnering some infamy. People believe that the son's sentence is probably the fairest given his history but giving his Dad five years at his age is pretty rough. In the end they accepted their convictions, even with the tougher sentences. At his age, letting the old man out after a year or two would be a fair deal, IMO. I would like sentences like this to not only reflect the severity of the crime but also take into account the few remaining years a person of that age has left to them. Minimum sentencing is fucking stupid and the only people it benefits are the politicians who made a big deal about passing the mandatory minimum law.

Odds are that after five years (four actually now) his son will emerge from prison alive. The odds are not that good for his father, who has 4 years and 11 months remaining.

ETA: The initial sentence caused an uproar among some in the state because it was viewed as way too lenient and the final sentence is causing an uproar among others because it's viewed as excessive.

 

[MongGrel]

Occupation...

Criminal trespassing, illegal entry, etc...
Possessing a gun in the commission of a crime... across state lines... felony, yeah?
Conspiracy to commit this felony (group activity)

The criminal charges could be quite immense.

I would think so myself.

Hey, I'm not a lawyer, but if there is still an investigation going on from the incident in Arizona and the guy "organizing" the snipers they had there could be considered an organization, I'd think you could almost RICO Act the whole bunch.

But that might be a stretch I guess. Though many of the same people are involved and it is well known.

These guys seem to be racking up a long list of things, regardless of whether they have been prosecuted or not.

That was a brilliant way to pre-empt the bullshit. The sheriff is no dummy.

Let the feds handle the situation at the visitor center. It's govt property, after all. Then do your best to shield the community from any stupid shitstorm fallout that might occur. Act normal. Coming or going, just let militia guys go right on by if they're not breaking the law.

Well, if there even are any more headed that way. If anybody is turned back by the feds I'm sure everybody will hear about it in short order. What if nobody comes? What if the feds just let 'em leave when they get cold enough & hungry enough?

+1

 

[Jaskalas]

ETA: The initial sentence caused an uproar among some in the state because it was viewed as way too lenient and the final sentence is causing an uproar among others because it's viewed as excessive.

If you want to talk about the Hammonds, I looked up the facts.

They are imprisoned by nothing more than a technicality that is viewed as cruel and unusual by the Judge. They caused no harm, but morals be damned we're got our bureaucracy to bury lives under. So the feds step in to assert supremacy at unconstitutional cruelty all so the family can be ruined, go bankrupt, and sell their land to the feds.

All so we can claim to cross our Ts and dot our Is.
Is America a grinder, set to purpose at crushing innocent people?

In August 2006, a lightning storm kindled
several fires near where the Hammonds
grew their winter feed. Steven responded by
attempting back burns near the boundary of
his land. Although a burn ban was in effect,
Steven did not seek a waiver. His fires
burned about an acre of public land.

The trial judge found that the 2001 fire had, at
most, temporarily damaged sagebrush and that,
while those damages might have technically been
greater than $100, “mother nature” had remedied any
harm. App. 14. The judge’s conclusion was supported
by the BLM, which had determined that the 2001 fire
improved that portion of the federal land to which the
fire spread. ER-305.

 

[DrDoug]

If you want to talk about the Hammonds, I looked up the facts.

They are imprisoned by nothing more than a technicality that is viewed as cruel and unusual by the Judge. They caused no harm, but morals be damned we're got our bureaucracy to bury lives under. So the feds step in to assert supremacy at unconstitutional cruelty all so the family can be ruined, go bankrupt, and sell their land to the feds.

All so we can claim to cross our Ts and dot our Is.
Is America a grinder, set to purpose at crushing innocent people?

You left out the poaching of deer and the fire that covered it up. You also left out the first time they set a fire on their property (1999) and were warned about it, leading to their being charged in 2001 when they did it again. There was no "technicality" in their sentencing, they were incorrectly and illegally sentenced initially and had their sentences vacated after losing an appeal to the USSC. They were then correctly sentenced under the statute and here we are today. These men chose to do what they did, have faced the music for doing so and have turned themselves in to finish their time.

Speaking of crossing Ts and dotting Is, details are important and you seem to have left out a few important ones. These men know why they are in prison and they've earned it. The only thing in dispute is if their sentences are fair but for right now they are the law.