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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
I'm pretty sure I have more training in mathematics than you do.

I'm pretty sure you don't or else we wouldn't be having these ridiculously unmathematical conversations.

But for the sake of argument let's say you are some math expert; how do you feel about people who don't know any math proclaiming math is wrong because they believe so?
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
I'm pretty sure you don't or else we wouldn't be having these ridiculous conversations.
I'm pretty sure I do.
But for the sake of argument let's say you are some math expert, how do you feel about people who don't know any math proclaiming math is wrong because they believe so?
I'm not a math expert. I'd ask them to show me via proof. In math there are proofs in Darwinian biology there are fairy tales based on conjecture.
 

abj13

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2005
1,071
902
136
10^20 mammals have ever existed. How much variation can you get in that number of animals, by blind processes? How many changes needed to occur in order for a mouse like creature to turn into people, whales, and bats? You've only got around 10^20 opportunities to get all this done.

Any change requiring 3 simultaneous mutations will happen once every 10^27 cell divisions.

Ah yes, the creationist bastardizing science.

Let's not forget the bad math he purposes

1) 10^20 mammals (let's ignore the fact that this is a estimate). Does the creationist represent the number of all living organisms? Nope. His math completely forgets the fact there are other non-mammalian organisms that preceded the evolution of mammals. But that's what creationists do, distort facts.
2) As already shown in this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37827878&postcount=525 This creationist posts number he doesn't understand, cherrypicks data, and doesn't understand data.
3) What he won't tell you is the mutation rate of other genes. He only likes his Michael Behe number, and ignores all other mutational rate. Why should we accept his 10^27 number (when in that other thread, he threw around a mutation rate of 10^20)?
4) Why is he NOT talking about the mutational rate of atovoquone resistance is 10^12.

So, as I asked back then, why did you post a manuscript that completely contradicted you point?

But creationist trolls like him merely want to bastardize math, science, and logic just to fulfill is own assumptions about the world.
 

master_shake_

Diamond Member
May 22, 2012
6,425
292
121
$17 million of public (state) money invested in it. Government funding of religion is against the very essence of the USA. Further, no gays, etc. allowed as employees, Christians only and single employees have to sign chastity oaths.

and we wonder why other civilizations on other worlds don't want to come say hi....
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
1. I'm pretty sure I do.

2. I'm not a math expert.

That would account for your judgement in these situations; let's say I've placed pretty well in competitive math. There frankly isn't much basis for comparison.

I'd ask them to show me via proof. In math there are proofs in Darwinian biology there are fairy tales based on conjecture.

My point is that many people aren't really in a position to understand either anyway. As in, they can't make odds or ends of a modern math proof, yet they can surely mouth off about it.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Ah yes, the creationist bastardizing science.

Let's not forget the bad math he purposes

1) 10^20 mammals (let's ignore the fact that this is a estimate). Does the creationist represent the number of all living organisms? Nope. His math completely forgets the fact there are other non-mammalian organisms that preceded the evolution of mammals. But that's what creationists do, distort facts.
Hello my dear friend.

My math completely ignores other types of animals because it doesn't matter. I'm talking about the variation in only mammals so why would I include the number of bacteria? I wouldn't and yes that is an estimate which I've said.
2) As already shown in this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37827878&postcount=525 This creationist posts number he doesn't understand, cherrypicks data, and doesn't understand data.
You came to an incorrect conclusion and wouldn't be disabused of your error, no matter what I said. I was talking about limits so cherry picking isn't an appropriate accusation.
3) What he won't tell you is the mutation rate of other genes. He only likes his Michael Behe number, and ignores all other mutational rate. Why should we accept his 10^27 number (when in that other thread, he threw around a mutation rate of 10^20)?
It is simple mathematics. Tell me what you do not understand.
4) Why is he NOT talking about the mutational rate of atovoquone resistance is 10^12.
Yeah, why not? Because that isn't my point. The mutation rate of any single point change is only 10^9, two simultaneous changes is 10^18 and 3 is 10^27. Simple mathematics. Any change that requires 3 mutations at once is only going to happen once out of every billion times you go through 10^20 organisms. It will happen only 100 times for a change that requires on 2 every 10^20 organisms.

Hint, I'm not talking about CQ resistance here.
So, as I asked back then, why did you post a manuscript that completely contradicted you point?
It didn't. You just kept saying what my point was and wouldn't listen when you were told you were wrong.
 

abj13

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2005
1,071
902
136
I'm not a math expert. I'd ask them to show me via proof. In math there are proofs in Darwinian biology there are fairy tales based on conjecture.

What's the mathematical proof that DNA leads to expression of proteins?
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
The fundamental error that buckwheat makes is to suppose that humans were the "target" that evolution has always been "aiming for." All arguments against evolution on the basis of probability make this mistake, and it's particularly evident when he talks about genetic "errors" or "mistakes." "Errors" and "mistakes" presuppose "correct" answers, which isn't the way reality works.

Buckwheat is rightfully mocked for his rejection of evolution because of his obvious and deep ignorance of it, and of the world in general.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
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It's a nice day out, isn't it?

This guy, I guess, just swam home?

large-Duck-billed-Platypus-photo.jpg

platypus9.jpg
 
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