Arizona to remove all heavily accented teachers

[waggy]

holy shit i could live with this. i have had hard classe's made harder by a teacher you just couldn't understand. i know many students felt the same and complained. but NOTHING would be done.

 

[sandorski]

explain the fail and educate me. one of my docs is a canadian citizen and we talk about this stuff every time i see him, every 3mos. is my info about the way you handle immigration incorrect? he is the one that explained your healthcare/immigration situation to me, not like i heard it on any news channel. also, does canada allow teachers to teach if they cannot clearly communicate to the students in a grammatically correct manner?

How Canada deals with Immigration is not the issue here. No, we don't go around testing the Grammatical Correctness of our Teachers. That is also not really the point either.

My point has to do with the Scapegoatism occurring in Arizona. Illegals are in the US not because they are bad people intent on taking advantage of the US. They are there because they were encouraged to come by Industry and in turn Government. I don't blame Arizona for wanting to end Illegal Immigration, for they are after all one of the States which is on the front line, as it were, of it, but until the systemic issues are dealt with those Immigrants will continue to stream into the US. Perhaps Arizona's actions on the Immigrant side will ultimately lead to action on the Federal level, but unless there is a dramatic shift in Policy the wrong People are going to be hurt unjustly.

 

[bob4432]

How Canada deals with Immigration is not the issue here. No, we don't go around testing the Grammatical Correctness of our Teachers. That is also not really the point either.

My point has to do with the Scapegoatism occurring in Arizona. Illegals are in the US not because they are bad people intent on taking advantage of the US. They are there because they were encouraged to come by Industry and in turn Government. I don't blame Arizona for wanting to end Illegal Immigration, for they are after all one of the States which is on the front line, as it were, of it, but until the systemic issues are dealt with those Immigrants will continue to stream into the US. Perhaps Arizona's actions on the Immigrant side will ultimately lead to action on the Federal level, but unless there is a dramatic shift in Policy the wrong People are going to be hurt unjustly.

thanks for the response. if the fed won't do anything, what are we suppose to do?

as far as the language/accent issue, there is no standard in canada for how well a instructor can speak the language? or is it just done before the hiring process, so in effect it is being done in canaday, just at a much earlier time as to no offend anybody?

also, how do you figure scapegoating?

also, do you have teacher unions in canada?

 

[Sinsear]

You're close to drawing a reasonable conclusion......keep thinking on WHY they would do something like this..

Trying to take their state back?

 

[sandorski]

thanks for the response. if the fed won't do anything, what are we suppose to do?

as far as the language/accent issue, there is no standard in canada for how well a instructor can speak the language? or is it just done before the hiring process, so in effect it is being done in canaday, just at a much earlier time as to no offend anybody?

also, how do you figure scapegoating?

also, do you have teacher unions in canada?

I assume that if a Teacher is exceedingly difficult to understand, that they would be weeded out at the point of Hiring, if not sooner. Yes, there are Teachers Unions here.

It is Scapegoating simply because it deals with the wrong end of the problem. That end is simply more Visible and more helpless making it an easy Target. For Decades US Government, Industry, and even Citizens benefited from the Illegals and barely raised objection. Then like the Ancient Egyptians with the Jews, one day Americans woke up and said, "Holy crap we're being over run by Mexicans!".

 

[Exterous]

I am all for having teachers/professors who can speak better English - heck I had a structures teacher who was completely incomprehensible everyone in the class. The Chinese students had to ask her to re-teach them in Mandarin so they could try and figure out what was going on.

As things stand now the bar seems a bit too low. The problem is - who gets to decide what accent is too much?

That said - I think the title of the article/issue is inflammatory. If it simply said 'Arizona pushing an increased language skills requirement among teachers' I think it would be less of an issue

 

[bob4432]

I assume that if a Teacher is exceedingly difficult to understand, that they would be weeded out at the point of Hiring, if not sooner. Yes, there are Teachers Unions here.

It is Scapegoating simply because it deals with the wrong end of the problem. That end is simply more Visible and more helpless making it an easy Target. For Decades US Government, Industry, and even Citizens benefited from the Illegals and barely raised objection. Then like the Ancient Egyptians with the Jews, one day Americans woke up and said, "Holy crap we're being over run by Mexicans!".

as far as the teaching, w/out a law i am sure they would claim discrimination and then the ACLU would get them their job...happens all the time. PC this, PC that. one would think like you, but not so much the case here all the time.

maybe i look at it (the illegal situation) in a different light that others being a native of phx, AZ, to me it is not a new problem. just the level of violence has exponentially exploded in the past couple years which is honestly what i believe brought on the current laws. if you watch the local phx, az nightly news and hear how many certain names are constantly named in this robbery, this kidnapping, this drop house, this drug raid, this murder, this rape, this assault, this car stop that shot leo, this car stop that netted 50#s of weed, etc it gets really, really old.

if it is true that some people say it is only a very small % of the illegal immigrant that is here breaking the laws, then there are much more than 500k illegals in AZ....

glad you and i can have a decent conversation about this stuff

 

[Rainsford]

Trying to take their state back?

They're trying to take their state back from people who have an accent?

I'm fine with a push to make teachers understandable, but when it becomes some big symbolic blow struck against people who weren't born in the US, it's looking a little too much like an idea people thought up at their last Klan meeting...

 

[sandorski]

as far as the teaching, w/out a law i am sure they would claim discrimination and then the ACLU would get them their job...happens all the time. PC this, PC that. one would think like you, but not so much the case here all the time.

maybe i look at it (the illegal situation) in a different light that others being a native of phx, AZ, to me it is not a new problem. just the level of violence has exponentially exploded in the past couple years which is honestly what i believe brought on the current laws. if you watch the local phx, az nightly news and hear how many certain names are constantly named in this robbery, this kidnapping, this drop house, this drug raid, this murder, this rape, this assault, this car stop that shot leo, this car stop that netted 50#s of weed, etc it gets really, really old.

if it is true that some people say it is only a very small % of the illegal immigrant that is here breaking the laws, then there are much more than 500k illegals in AZ....

glad you and i can have a decent conversation about this stuff

A lot of that Crime looks like it's directly related to something else, the War on Drugs. A whole other ball of wax.

 

[Zebo]

They're trying to take their state back from people who have an accent?

I'm fine with a push to make teachers understandable, but when it becomes some big symbolic blow struck against people who weren't born in the US, it's looking a little too much like an idea people thought up at their last Klan meeting...

Race is a canard. If they were German immigrants who could not be understood by even the principle, their boss, and could not write Arizonians would not want them teaching their children either. Race gives you no excuse to butcher the language you're supposed to be teaching children in. Likewise race gives you no excuse to enter USA ahead of everyone else and our very generous quota system (compared to the other G8s). Race gives you no excuse to skip our background, criminal, and health checks before establishing residency. Why do you guys make it about race? I want to understand this because I assure you I'm as color blind as you can get and don't see it that way. That's not to say there are no racists in the crowd but I think we are past that for the most part and it's an economic and standards argument and race is a convenient diversion to not apply rule of law and enforce laws.

 

[OutHouse]

Ebonics is a dialect of English, just like American is itself a dialect

Ebonics IS NOT a dialect, its ghetto slang.

 

[spidey07]

Taking back the country from mexican inavasion also means taking back the language. Everyday Arizona shows what a free state needs to so. Go Arizona, go.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I once had a calc class taught by a Chinese TA who viewed every class as a performance. He could literally write simultaneously with both hands on the blackboard. This was an old fashioned classroom with blackboards on three sides. After filling the third board up, he would race back to the first board and start erasing with one hand while continuing to write with the other. He may have been speaking Mandarin for all anyone paid attention to what was said. We spent the entire class copying down equations to sort out later. Interesting to watch but, forget about learning anything.

 

[Lemon law]

Now that Steven Hawking has resigned his Lucasian Professorship and might be on the employment market, he need not apply for work in Arizona. Hells fire, any country or US State would be thrilled to death to employ him, but not Arizona. Ole Steve may habla English, but he can't speak it worth a shit anymore.

 

[DAGTA]

Now that Steven Hawking has resigned his Lucasian Professorship and might be on the employment market, he need not apply for work in Arizona. Hells fire, any country or US State would be thrilled to death to employ him, but not Arizona. Ole Steve may habla English, but he can't speak it worth a shit anymore.

Sir, put the crack pipe down and back away.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Now that Steven Hawking has resigned his Lucasian Professorship and might be on the employment market, he need not apply for work in Arizona. Hells fire, any country or US State would be thrilled to death to employ him, but not Arizona. Ole Steve may habla English, but he can't speak it worth a shit anymore.

Steven has a computer aided device that speaks clear English. Your point is pretty moot and lame. I am also pretty sure he isn't sweating this decision at all. Unless of course you are proposing that he should be able to go without his speech device and his students and colleagues should all have try to interpret everything his says via a system of undecipherable blinks.

 

[aphex]

I find it amazing that some were calling Obama a Nazi and a fascist yet many support Arizona dredge down this slippery slope. Should we just make all foreigners put gold stars on their clothes?

 

[sandorski]

whooosh

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I find it amazing that some were calling Obama a Nazi and a fascist yet many support Arizona dredge down this slippery slope. Should we just make all foreigners put gold stars on their clothes?

Oh yeah illegals are so fucking oppressed. Dear god what a oppressive state and nation they have illegally crossed over into. I mean how dare anyone want to have teachers who can clearly and intelligibly speak English or worse have their immigration laws enforced like other nations in the world.

 

[sandorski]

Oh yeah illegals are so fucking oppressed. Dear god what a oppressive state and nation they have illegally crossed over into. I mean how dare anyone want to have teachers who can clearly and intelligibly speak English or worse have their immigration laws enforced like other nations in the world.

Obama has been so Oppressive!

You forgot ^^ that part of his point.

Whoosh again.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Obama has been so Oppressive!

You forgot ^^ that part of his point.

Whoosh again.

At what point is AZ enforcing the immigration laws and ensuring that people can be clearly understood when they are teaching at a school or college being oppressive? You think I could go to China and teach a class by only speaking unintelligible and broken Mandarin? You think they'd let someone else teach a class in Mexico who can barely speak Spanish?

 

[Sinsear]

They're trying to take their state back from people who have an accent?

I'm fine with a push to make teachers understandable, but when it becomes some big symbolic blow struck against people who weren't born in the US, it's looking a little too much like an idea people thought up at their last Klan meeting...

Yes because Arizonans and all the politicians there are secretly Klan memebers. That must be it.

 

[sandorski]

At what point is AZ enforcing the immigration laws and ensuring that people can be clearly understood when they are teaching at a school or college being oppressive? You think I could go to China and teach a class by only speaking unintelligible and broken Mandarin? You think they'd let someone else teach a class in Mexico who can barely speak Spanish?

sigh, he's just making a point, not claiming Oppression.

 

[Darwin333]

I like the idea of this, after all, who hasn't had a teacher that is hard to understand... but it seems iffy. Maybe they really can't change their accents, and that isn't their fault.

I wouldn't really "blame" them for that but OTOH I don't think they should be given a public job that requires you to be able to effectively communicate with potentially hundreds of people (like teaching).

Seriously, what is the point of a teacher lecturing a classroom if no one can understand WTF they are saying? Is that person an effective teacher? Do we really need a law to state that "the average student must be able to understand the words coming out of your mouth in order for you to be a teacher"? Things like foreign language studies should obviously be exempted but I always assumed that whoever did the hiring took "can you understand wtf he is saying" into account before hiring him.

 

[waggy]

I assume that if a Teacher is exceedingly difficult to understand, that they would be weeded out at the point of Hiring, if not sooner. Yes, there are Teachers Unions here.

It is Scapegoating simply because it deals with the wrong end of the problem. That end is simply more Visible and more helpless making it an easy Target. For Decades US Government, Industry, and even Citizens benefited from the Illegals and barely raised objection. Then like the Ancient Egyptians with the Jews, one day Americans woke up and said, "Holy crap we're being over run by Mexicans!".

You would think that they would not hire them. but i swear they don't give a shit and hire then NO matter that nobody can understand them.