Arizona to remove all heavily accented teachers

[Red Dawn]

Dude both my parents are immigrants one is a retired university professor. Guess what they speak perfect English - constantly reminded us growing up of improper grammar and my mom won university professor of the year twice in California (a record). Don't give me this shit it's discriminatory. People are just lazy and have no standards today.

Yeah but they immigrated from Canada.

 

[Throckmorton]

is it even classified as a dialect?

By definition it's a dialect. There are dozens of dialects within America. Just go to any rural area, or Hawaii, or Boston. Go to Britain and you'll find many dialects that aren't even understandable. Have you ever heard a rural Scot speak? I wonder why "ebonics" is singled out and ridiculed...

There's nothing wrong about ANY of these dialects, patois, or pidgins. They're just variations of English, just like English is itself a variation of Old English, Old English is a variation of the Germanic mother tongue, etc. A lot of the time these dialects are more complex and have more logical syntax.

I normally speak English better than most Americans, but (for example) I have to force myself to say "they" instead of "he" because this "incorrect" usage is normal in America even though it's not in the rest of the English speaking world.

 

[TruePaige]

By definition it's a dialect. There are dozens of dialects within America. Just go to any rural area, or Hawaii, or Boston. Go to Britain and you'll find many dialects that aren't even understandable. Have you ever heard a rural Scot speak? I wonder why "ebonics" is singled out and ridiculed...

There's nothing wrong about ANY of these dialects, patois, or pidgins. They're just variations of English, just like English is itself a variation of Old English, Old English is a variation of the Germanic mother tongue, etc. A lot of the time these dialects are more complex and have more logical syntax.

I normally speak English better than most Americans, but (for example) I have to force myself to say "they" instead of "he" because this "incorrect" usage is normal in America even though it's not in the rest of the English speaking world.

Because if you speak ebonically you are a retard. I have never known a highly successful person who spoke in that manner.

 

[pcgeek11]

Ebonics is a dialect of English, just like American is itself a dialect

Ebonics was made up to describe and a feeble attempt to justify the poor English of blacks in North America. It came about in 1973 and most linguist do NOT recognize it as either a language or Dialect.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That's telling him!



The real problem is what criteria is used and how are standards uniformly enforced. If a teacher is unintelligible to 95% of students then it's obviously a problem. What about 10 or 5?

As usual the devil is in the details.

 

[Throckmorton]

Because if you speak ebonically you are a retard. I have never known a highly successful person who spoke in that manner.

That's how every dialect is... Larry The Cable Guy vs Lindsey Graham. There's nothing wrong with how Larry speaks, it's just another English variant regardless of your bias

 

[SsupernovaE]

There goes half my alma mater's teachers.

 

[newnameman]

The thread title is incorrect. This does not apply to all teachers, only teachers in classes meant for non-native English speakers who are still learning English.

 

[loldoctor]

Because if you speak ebonically you are a retard. I have never known a highly successful person who spoke in that manner.

Dave Chappelle?

 

[Kappo]

When you think about, it really should be ALL teachers. I mean, wtf? How can we expect our children to learn anything if their teacher has an accent? And while we're at it, what about doctors? How can a doctor properly treat their patient if the patient cant understand them because of their accent?

and nurses
and counselors
and all service providers
waiters/waitresses
etc...

I say we clear them all the fuck out of our country.

The difference is that in a lecture setting you can't constantly be going "WTF did you just say?" because it basically interrupts the class schedule for everyone. One on one, people can convey information (doctors really don't have to convey THAT much, just wtf is wrong with you) much more effectively.

One on one encounters I can live with because it's passable, public speaking that you are required to learn in order to gain skills and get a better job is completely different.

 

[Deudalus]

I like the idea of this, after all, who hasn't had a teacher that is hard to understand... but it seems iffy. Maybe they really can't change their accents, and that isn't their fault.

I really want to be an NBA player.

The problem is I don't quite jump high enough or run fast enough.

I've tried to change this, but couldn't. It isn't my fault.

I would like to be offered the job now please.

 

[Rainsford]

I don't think this is a bad idea on the surface, but I'm a bit concerned about the standards that will be applied. Having teachers who you can understand makes a lot of sense, but I can easily see how this could be applied pretty arbitrarily to remove teachers from backgrounds you just don't like.

 

[DAGTA]

I don't think gov't needs to be involved in this process. A large part of being a teacher is being able to communicate ideas. If a teacher cannot effectively communicate to students, then that teacher needs to face disciplinary action by the employer. If the teacher does not improve afterwards, then that teacher's position should be terminated.

 

[cwjerome]

I don't think gov't needs to be involved in this process. A large part of being a teacher is being able to communicate ideas. If a teacher cannot effectively communicate to students, then that teacher needs to face disciplinary action by the employer. If the teacher does not improve afterwards, then that teacher's position should be terminated.

I tend to agree. Schools and districts should be managing their own affairs in these matters. Why the government needs to make 6 billion laws to try and address every aspect of every situation is beyond me. Stick to the big ideas please and let people live (and work).

 

[Kappo]

I tend to agree. Schools and districts should be managing their own affairs in these matters. Why the government needs to make 6 billion laws to try and address every aspect of every situation is beyond me. Stick to the big ideas please and let people live (and work).

Creating a merit based environment is not what the school systems want. The unions keep people who are terrible teachers teaching and students suffer. I don't like seeing these laws either but, without someone telling them what to do, the school systems just keep on sucking. TBH, this (the OP) is just an annoyance to me, but I didn't really learn anything in those classes that really stuck with me.

School systems cave to pressure from parents to just be babysitters then wonder why their kids are morons. School systems go overboard in situations (zero tolerance) and have proven themselves to be completely incapable of handling the process on their own.

 

[cwjerome]

Creating a merit based environment is not what the school systems want. The unions keep people who are terrible teachers teaching and students suffer. I don't like seeing these laws either but, without someone telling them what to do, the school systems just keep on sucking. TBH, this (the OP) is just an annoyance to me, but I didn't really learn anything in those classes that really stuck with me.

School systems cave to pressure from parents to just be babysitters then wonder why their kids are morons. School systems go overboard in situations (zero tolerance) and have proven themselves to be completely incapable of handling the process on their own.

I think the state can provide guidance and cover the bigger ideas while the districts execute within their own parameters. What I generally advocate is more local control and what I generally discourage is layers upon layers of governmental micromanagement. You can empower schools through good, strategic leadership or be their nanny.

FYI, the seniority system is no longer in effect in Arizona, so we should see more merit based re-hiring procedures.

What I don't believe is that this rule is some sinister racial idea, and it's funny to see people who have been so dumbed-down to Pavlovian response with accusations of racism. Here's the deal... ADE walks through ELL classrooms in most districts all the time, especially in schools that are "underperforming." They have their little checklists and provide feedback to the administrators on the good and the bad that they observed in the ELL rooms, ie, compliance with the million and one little rules, procedures, and hoops to jump through. ELL instruction is a bureaucratic disaster. What these ADE officials might have noticed are a few ELL teachers that might not be totally easy to understand, so now they are making this a new law.

It's just another rule on top of countless others and I'm sure there will be countless more. This is not how you fix education.

 

[Perknose]

Dude both my parents are immigrants one is a retired university professor. Guess what they speak perfect English - constantly reminded us growing up of improper grammar and my mom won university professor of the year twice in California (a record). Don't give me this shit it's discriminatory. People are just lazy and have no standards today.

Well, in that case, allow me to carry on their sadly failed efforts with you, Mr. Perfect spawn of English perfection!

Besides the usual and understandable "who cares" type omissions like you not putting the otherwise necessary comma between "Guess what" and "they speak" is your inexcusable grammar mistake in using "of" instead of "about" above.

Since you come from such a fine pedigree, you KNOW that "constantly reminded us growing up of improper grammar" means "my parents (implied) improper grammar constantly reminded me about improper grammar."

Switching your mistaken "of" with "about" restores the meaning you meant to convey, but failed to.

It's as simple but as important as the difference between the two following sentences:

He reminds me of dung slurping all the time.

He reminds me about dung slurping all the time.

Perhaps we should ban you from our forums, Mr. Faux defender of the language!

As you so rightfully said, "Don't give me this shit it's discriminatory. People are just lazy and have no standards today."



However, to get back to the main discussion, I agree with Rainsford:

I don't think this is a bad idea on the surface, but I'm a bit concerned about the standards that will be applied.

 

[heyheybooboo]

--

 

[LumbergTech]

The classes I had with heavily accented teachers were generally harder, but not because of their accent. Many lazy ass students liked to blame it on the teacher's accent when they got poor grades.

 

[1prophet]

They should send the teachers to remedial speech classes taught by Professor Higgins and Colonel Pickering, but then again they might still fire them for speaking proper English now. :whiste:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAYUuspQ6BY&feature=related

 

[BoberFett]

This seems to be going a bit too far. I support their anti-illegal push, but why punish legal immigrants because they have an accent?

 

[LumbergTech]

This seems to be going a bit too far. I support their anti-illegal push, but why punish legal immigrants because they have an accent?

You're close to drawing a reasonable conclusion......keep thinking on WHY they would do something like this..

 

[bob4432]

fail

explain the fail? none in there...

 

[sandorski]

explain the fail? none in there...

Lots in there. You're too busy trying to dismiss me due to Geographic position to really have a point.

 

[bob4432]

Lots in there. You're too busy trying to dismiss me due to Geographic position to really have a point.

explain the fail and educate me. one of my docs is a canadian citizen and we talk about this stuff every time i see him, every 3mos. is my info about the way you handle immigration incorrect? he is the one that explained your healthcare/immigration situation to me, not like i heard it on any news channel. also, does canada allow teachers to teach if they cannot clearly communicate to the students in a grammatically correct manner?