Arizona signs immigration bill into law

[Patranus]

Breaking News: Illegals plan to leave Arizona over new law
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100429/D9FCDCN00.html

Man, CA is bankrupt right now, I cant wait for the influx of these people.

 

[spidey07]

Breaking News: Illegals plan to leave Arizona over new law
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100429/D9FCDCN00.html

Man, CA is bankrupt right now, I cant wait for the influx of these people.

This law is doing exactly what needed to be accomplished and the damn thing isn't even in effect yet. Bravo Arizona, well done and you should be a model for other states to enact the exact same law.

 

[Linflas]

When in Arizona and you're walking down the street and you see a Cop coming towards you, it's time to go to the other side.

I guess you could do that if you actually wanted to provide them with probable cause for stopping you. The better approach would be to continue walking towards the cop and greet him like any normal person with nothing to hide or be nervous about would do.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

When in Arizona and you're walking down the street and you see a Cop coming towards you, it's time to go to the other side.

Typical FUD. Because cops ask everyone walking down the streets to hold out their IDs right? What part of lawful contact do you not understand?

 

[sandorski]

Typical FUD. Because cops ask everyone walking down the streets to hold out their IDs right? What part of lawful contact do you not understand?

Clearly mere Contact is grounds for Lawful Contact. Why chance it?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Anyone looking for a job . Hormel is hiring anyone that is white or black . As the internet has exposed their hiring of illegals. The tears in near by town are flowing . The city has been exposed for allowing , the cops are now viewd as corrupted. About dam time wages will rise now . About dam time.

 

[Linflas]

Clearly mere Contact is grounds for Lawful Contact. Why chance it?

Whereas in your country speech itself is enough to have you hauled before an unelected Human Rights Commission to determine if you have committed thought crime. Getting heckled in a comedy club doing your act by a couple of lesbians? If you are in Canada better ignore them lest they have you hauled in.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Why is that little detail absent from most of the media reports about the law? I would venture to guess that the US Laws and particularly the AZ is are not the harshest things in the world.

Because "illegal" is a bad sounding word. It's pretty easy to figure out. It's illegal to move into the US without coming through the immigration process, or a visa. I'm not aware of any country which does not have a similar policy. Since it's illegal to do so, the person has violated the law. That makes one a criminal.

To rephrase the text of the photo I posted, "AZ law makes someone who is already a criminal (but we won't say that), a criminal."

Newspeak is awesome!

 

[sandorski]

Whereas in your country speech itself is enough to have you hauled before an unelected Human Rights Commission to determine if you have committed thought crime. Getting heckled in a comedy club doing your act by a couple of lesbians? If you are in Canada better ignore them lest they have you hauled in.

You gotta point?

 

[Linflas]

You gotta point?

You mean that mote in your eye isn't obvious?

 

[sandorski]

You mean that mote in your eye isn't obvious?

I wasn't aware of this being a mote situation. The 2 situations are not remotely similar.

 

[CitizenKain]

I guess you could do that if you actually wanted to provide them with probable cause for stopping you. The better approach would be to continue walking towards the cop and greet him like any normal person with nothing to hide or be nervous about would do.

Since when are cops people?

 

[Modelworks]

Also on the issue of jobs, I think these immigrants probably is making 1/2 or 1/3 the wages of a legal resident, so the local residents is enjoying the product of their labors at a much cheaper rate.

That is what many people think , and maybe it was true years ago, but it isn't now.
When there were not many jobs the illegals had to take whatever they could get so they often worked for low wages. Low wages allowed them to undercut the competition, the legal workers. Over time their numbers increased to the point that there were no legal workers or very few in a lot of these jobs. The legal workers moved on both because of the wages and because 'that' kind of work was seen as beneath what the general public accepted as something people should do. Now there are no legal workers to do the work so illegals do not have to accept the low wages anymore and they aren't. What are you to do if your workforce is illegals and they want xxx amount for working ? You can tell them no and try to find legal workers plus all the hassle that comes with that, or you can give them the money they want.

Strawberries are starting to come into stores now and the fields are full. The illegals here don't get paid minimum wage , they get $10.50 /hour + housing + transportation.
The farmers here can't get anyone cheaper than that. It has become its own unofficial union made up of illegals. Farmers can't get legal people to work in the sun for $10.50 /hour even though it is more than minimum wage. Like a friend who said he went to home depot to get some help planting some trees, and the illegal told him he would do it for $25 a tree for 10 trees, when asked if he could go lower , he said that he may be illegal but he isn't dumb.

 

[flavio]

Youre either ignorant or naive. Your last sentence...is wrong. Do you not see a conflict where federal law clearly states an alien with any kind of visa is required, again by federal law (US Code Title 8 Section 1304(E), to carry said paperwork with them, no matter where they go, yet states have initiated laws that prevent that law from being enforced? You dont see a problem with that? What the new AZ law does is allow federal law that has been in place for decades to actually be enforced.

I'm not sure what you're not understanding here. This law will have the affect that ALL PEOPLE, not just aliens, will have to have their papers on them or face possible detention and arrest.

 

[flavio]

Glad to see my state finally has a governor with a back-bone.

If you call someone giving up your freedoms having backbone sure. I guess that's pretty ballsy. Don't step out of your house without your papers.

 

[Chaotic42]

If you call someone giving up your freedoms having backbone sure. I guess that's pretty ballsy. Don't step out of your house without your papers.

Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri-Kansas City law professor who handled immigration law and border security under U.S. Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft during the Bush administration, said the law does not seek to regulate immigration but merely adds state penalties for what are already federal crimes.

 

[flavio]

Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri-Kansas City law professor who handled immigration law and border security under U.S. Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft during the Bush administration, said the law does not seek to regulate immigration but merely adds state penalties for what are already federal crimes.

That's silly, you can read the law yourself and see what it says.

"Lawful contact can occur in many instances when there is no reasonable suspicion of a crime," she said. "A consensual encounter, such as asking a police officer for directions, reporting a crime to a police officer, or being a victim of a crime or a witness and being questioned by a police officer, is a 'lawful encounter.' Also lawful are some stops premised on absolutely no individualized reasonable suspicion -- think about DUI checkpoints where everyone is stopped even if there is no individualized suspicion for the stop. The bill is clear that so long as the initial encounter is lawful, a police officer can then ascertain my legal status upon suspicion that I am undocumented. So Huppenthal is wrong if he maintains that only those suspected of criminal activity can be questioned regarding status. Under the plain language of the law, any time the police engage in a lawful encounter, that is enough to trigger the inquiry into status upon reasonable suspicion."

And some of the potential crimes that could lead to questioning involve seemingly inoccuous actions.

In an effort to curb day laborer gathering points -- the ad-hoc spots where illegal immigrants have often offered themselves as informal laborers -- the law makes it unlawful "for a person to enter a motor vehicle that is stopped on a street, roadway or highway in order to be hired by an occupant of the motor vehicle and to be transported to work at a different location if the motor vehicle blocks or impedes the normal movement of traffic." It also is now "unlawful for a person who is unlawfully present in the United States and who is an unauthorized alien to knowingly apply for work [or] solicit work in a public place." And how does the law define "solicit"? As a "verbal or nonverbal communication by a gesture or a nod that would indicate to a reasonable person that a person is willing to be employed."

So, presumably, anyone getting into a car, or making a gesture or a nod in a public place, could fall under suspicion of violating these laws -- which in turn could open the door to an individual being questioned about their immigration status.

None of this means that law enforcement officers will fully exercise these powers -- or that judges will let them. But most legal experts we asked felt that the law opened the door to police questioning of individuals who are not specifically suspected of committing a crime."

 

[cubby1223]

If you call someone giving up your freedoms having backbone sure. I guess that's pretty ballsy. Don't step out of your house without your papers.

You sure love media tag-lines, don't you

 

[flavio]

I dig the facts....yes.

 

[bob4432]

That is not what you claimed. You said "thus the fact that the questions to determine citizenship would be after some other infraction. all in the bill for those that can read."

That was proven completely wrong. You can be forced to prove your citizenship for any number of reasons that do not involve committing an infraction.

Also, you aren't supposed to be stopped for "no reason" but we all know the police can always find a reason to stop you. You don't have to be doing anything illegal. I've been stopped many many times when I was doing nothing illegal. You could even be a witness, a victim, or reporting a crime.

So what's happened in AZ is that all of the people have been opened up to detainment and incarceration for possibly "any reason".

you still can not be stopped and asked "for your papers" as the main reason for the leo interaction, this is secondary to an initial contact that required legal leo interaction to take place. there has to be a reason you were in contact w/ leo in the first place, you being a different color ins't one of them.

sheriff arpaio has been doing this for years, actually just did another sweep i think yesterday and has been video taped by i think aclu people and nothing has come of it. i am sure the same thing will happen when this bill becomes law. also i am sure you have read the language in the bill that will deal w/ officers that do not follow the law and practice outside the scope of this law.

 

[dainthomas]

Also lawful are some stops premised on absolutely no individualized reasonable suspicion -- think about DUI checkpoints where everyone is stopped even if there is no individualized suspicion for the stop.

Good job, Arizona! Get ready for "green card checkpoints" by overzealous sheriffs with too much time on their hands looking to score points for the next election. But on the plus side, at least you'll get to pay more for many goods and services as the labor pool shrinks. :thumbsup:

you still can not be stopped and asked "for your papers" as the main reason for the leo interaction, this is secondary to an initial contact that required legal leo interaction to take place. there has to be a reason you were in contact w/ leo in the first place, you being a different color ins't one of them.

Hence the DUI checkpoints, where everyone who's brown gets asked for their papers. Or are DUI checkpoints not lawful contact?

 

[flavio]

you still can not be stopped and asked "for your papers" as the main reason for the leo interaction, this is secondary to an initial contact that required legal leo interaction to take place. there has to be a reason you were in contact w/ leo in the first place, you being a different color ins't one of them.

Great. I didn't claim anything to the contrary. I just pointed out that you were completely wrong when you said there needed to be an infraction to be asked for your papers.

 

[jonks]

just when you thought the GOP might make a comeback, they do all in their power to alienate the fastest growing minority group (along with all the other minority groups) in the country. Bring on 2012 lol.

GOP: if it aint white, it aint alrite

 

[ElFenix]

Hence the DUI checkpoints, where everyone who's brown gets asked for their papers. Or are DUI checkpoints not lawful contact?

they already ask everyone for ID...

 

[cwjerome]

Breaking News: Illegals plan to leave Arizona over new law
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100429/D9FCDCN00.html

Man, CA is bankrupt right now, I cant wait for the influx of these people.

The law is already working. Some are in the processes of leaving now and some are preparing to leave soon.

From an article:
Arizona's new immigration law is not so much about using local police to round up and deport as many of the estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants in the state as possible, said state Rep. John Kavanagh, R-Fountain Hills, it's about creating so much fear they will leave on their own.

The strategy is known as "attrition through enforcement," and it is a factor behind every one of the anti-illegal-immigration laws passed so far, said Kavanagh, a main supporter of the bill and a criminal-justice professor at Scottsdale Community College.

"That means that rather than conducting large-scale active roundups of illegal immigrants, our intention is to make Arizona a very uncomfortable place for them to be so they leave or never come here in the first place," he said. "So, rather than massive deportations, we are basically going to encourage them to leave on their own."

When that happens, he said, crime and taxes will go down.

But Kavanagh said he is worried about legal immigrants and U.S. citizens also leaving.

"I'm concerned about legal residents who are unnecessarily leaving the state because they have bought into a lot of the misinformation about this bill," Kavanagh said.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...immigration-law-migrants-leaving-arizona.html