Arizona signs immigration bill into law

[cubby1223]

Here is the big whoop over this issue:

Pretty much we all want the exact same outcome, the legal residents and legal visitors to be left alone, illegals dealt with to the letter of the law, and the border secure, violence reduced.

But, the stupid political parties just fight each other because they both want to be the sole one recognized as the party that fixed the problem, and the other party recognized as the racists.

And like so many other times, we the public get the royal screw job from politicians.

 

[blackangst1]

Here is the big whoop over this issue:

Pretty much we all want the exact same outcome, the legal residents and legal visitors to be left alone, illegals dealt with to the letter of the law, and the border secure, violence reduced.

But, the stupid political parties just fight each other because they both want to be the sole one recognized as the party that fixed the problem, and the other party recognized as the racists.

And like so many other times, we the public get the royal screw job from politicians.

Thats the thing...we all DONT want the same thing. Most, I think, want what you said; however, there are those, including those who have said as much in this thread, who want open borders with no requirements at all. And to think one poster even used the word sovereignty in the same post :hmm:

 

[cheezy321]

I didnt read anything in this thread.

Just wanted to add this news article: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/04/29/20100429phoenix-drop-house-raid-12-arrested.html

A lot of you in other non-border states have no idea how often this happens. Its commonplace. This was in the news today. It happens way too often, and it needs to stop. Something needs to be done, and the federal government has done absolutely nothing to solve the problem.

 

[DAGTA]

Another great article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html

 

[flavio]

i have no idea where you are from, whether in the US or not, but if you get pulled over, you give them your id if you are asked. i have had many interactions w/ police that haven't asked for my id. you have this crazy idea that somehow AZ is some police state when what this law does is what fed law has been doing and local leo has been doing for years.

Your ID does not very your status of your citizenship. This law allows police detain you upon any "lawful contact" if you cannot prove you are legal. You don't have to be driving.

 

[flavio]

flavio - where do you live?

Oakland.

 

[flavio]

It's already been covered in this thread. A drivers license is good enough because you can't get one if you in the country illegally in most states and absolutely the case in AZ.

Something is wrong with your theory.
http://www.azfamily.com/video/featu...ed-to-provide-birth-certificate-91769419.html

Also, if you're not driving you shouldn't have to have your Drivers License. Since my 13yr old doesn't drive or have any idea I suppose she would have to carry her birth certificate everywhere she goes....but then how do they know it's hers?

Ridiculous.

 

[DAGTA]

Something is wrong with your theory.
http://www.azfamily.com/video/featu...ed-to-provide-birth-certificate-91769419.html

Also, if you're not driving you shouldn't have to have your Drivers License. Since my 13yr old doesn't drive or have any idea I suppose she would have to carry her birth certificate everywhere she goes....but then how do they know it's hers?

Ridiculous.

How often do you think your 13yr old will be stopped by police while driving?

 

[flavio]

Did you tell me I didnt read the thread? Ive participated heavily, troll. It doesnt matter where you are, the fact is, ALL LEO have access to Dept of Licensing records from their car. Which include pictures that are associated with said ID/License. And here in AZ, an ID or license will establish that you are here legally. In any case, we will now require what the feds do - if youre an alien, carry your green card.

Youre a fuckin troll man.

You're a fuckin dumbass dork.

First your theory seems flawed about ID.
http://www.azfamily.com/video/featu...ed-to-provide-birth-certificate-91769419.html

Second if I'm not driving why do I need to have my drivers license?

 

[flavio]

Officer, the name is spidey
Live at 123 evergreen terrace
This vehicle is registered to that address

On my merry way but with a ticket for not having drivers license on me. That would make sure there is absolutely no reasonable suspicion that I'm an illegal alien.

And if you're not in a vehicle or you are a passenger? Not that the law says giving your address covers you anyway.

 

[flavio]

How often do you think your 13yr old will be stopped by police while driving?

There's nothing in the law that says you have to be driving.

 

[DAGTA]

There's nothing in the law that says you have to be driving.

have you read it, yet?

 

[OrByte]

Has anyone bothered to ask what AZ law enforcement officers what they think of the new law?

I'm just curious...

 

[flavio]

have you read it, yet?

Yes, it says "any lawful contact".

 

[flavio]

Has anyone bothered to ask what AZ law enforcement officers what they think of the new law?

I'm just curious...

Yes, there was one on Hardball or something today that is not interested in enforcing it and said it opens them up to lawsuits from both directions. It allows people to sue if they think they aren't enforcing it well enough and also opens them up to wrongful detainment suits.

 

[bob4432]

Has anyone bothered to ask what AZ law enforcement officers what they think of the new law?

I'm just curious...

i doubt much of that will get reported in the media since we know that they(media) only want 1 view. next time i get pulled over i will ask them :awe:, may take a while though, i haven't been pulled over in over 20yrs but had "lawful contact" w/ a couple detectives investigating a shooting just a few weeks ago.

 

[blackangst1]

You're a fuckin dumbass dork.

First your theory seems flawed about ID.
http://www.azfamily.com/video/featu...ed-to-provide-birth-certificate-91769419.html

Second if I'm not driving why do I need to have my drivers license?

Really? Im the dumbass? Where in that article does it say he had an AZ license?

Learn to read and comprehend. Well, on second thought dont. Its fun watching idiots

 

[flavio]

Really? Im the dumbass? Where in that article does it say he had an AZ license?

It clearly says he had a commercial drivers license. He's driving a truck. Seems appropriate right? I don't know if it was an AZ license but he was a "valley man" and lived nearby.

Are you trying to say a CDL isn't good enough or that out of state licenses aren't good enough? Either way you're a moron but it'll be fun to see where you're going with this.

 

[blackangst1]

It clearly says he had a commercial drivers license. He's driving a truck. Seems appropriate right? I don't know if it was an AZ license but he was a "valley man" and lived nearby.

Are you trying to say a CDL isn't good enough or that out of state licenses aren't good enough? Either way you're a moron but it'll be fun to see where you're going with this.

Then your point is moot. And yes thats what Im saying. If you cared to pay attention instead of continually making a fool out of yourself, you would know AZ doesnt recognize licenses and ID's from all 50 states as valid proof. There are state restrictions that, if presented, AZ would reject, and require proof of either citizenship or alien status to get an AZ license or ID. That is AZ law. Who's the fucking moron now? You dont know shit, troll.

Yes, it IS fun to see where this is going.

 

[flavio]

Then your point is moot. And yes thats what Im saying. If you cared to pay attention instead of continually making a fool out of yourself, you would know AZ doesnt recognize licenses and ID's from all 50 states as valid proof.

You've made my point even better. If a truck driver carrying his CDL can be detained by the police for simply pulling into a weigh station than AZ has seriously moved to a police state.

That makes you unequivocally the fucking moron for supporting it as well as a fascist dickhead. Give up some more freedom tool.

It was fun to see where that went.

 

[blackangst1]

You've made my point even better. If a truck driver carrying his CDL can be detained by the police for simply pulling into a weigh station than AZ has seriously moved to a police state.

That makes you unequivocally the fucking moron for supporting it as well as a fascist dickhead. Give up some more freedom tool.

It was fun to see where that went.

Well, since you lost the ID point, you have no choice but to resort to attacking. Thats cool, its what trolls do If you dont like it, dont come here. Meanwhile, as illegals are fleeing my state, I will smile knowing they arent sucking resources, fueling the meth and human trafficking trade, and our crime is lowering

Cheers mate!

 

[flavio]

Well, since you lost the ID point, you have no choice but to resort to attacking.

I did not attack you unless you mean the insults. You clearly started that shit. I would love to just use facts and reason but that wasn't good enough for you. If you want to pull of the silly insults.

I would like to hear exactly why you think I lost the ID point. Please explain. My point has always been that the law will fuck with legal people and reduce their freedom and that is pretty much proven.

Thats cool, its what trolls do

No sorry, trolls use start childish insults instead of facts. That's what you did. I have been arguing with facts.

as illegals are fleeing my state, I will smile knowing they arent sucking resources, fueling the meth and human trafficking trade, and our crime is lowering

It's completely unproven that is what the result will be but it's interesting that you will give up freedom for this promise.

You were completely wrong when you denied that "ALL PEOPLE, not just aliens, will have to have their papers on them or face possible detention and arrest"

Just a little fucked up.

 

[blackangst1]

I did not attack you unless you mean the insults. You clearly started that shit. I would love to just use facts and reason but that wasn't good enough for you. If you want to pull of the silly insults.

I would like to hear exactly why you think I lost the ID point. Please explain. My point has always been that the law will fuck with legal people and reduce their freedom and that is pretty much proven.

flavio: Your ID does not very your status of your citizenship.
me: Yes, AZ ID does, as I stated. You were wrong.

flavio: This law allows police detain you upon any "lawful contact" if you cannot prove you are legal.
me: Actually, any of the 24 stop and identify states in the union can. Nothing new here.

flavio: First your theory seems flawed about ID.
me: you linked a story that is irrelevant. You seemed to think because this trucker was taken into custody, it was because his CDL wasnt proof enough. Which is true. Had it been an AZ ID or license, it would have.

flavio: Are you trying to say a CDL isn't good enough or that out of state licenses aren't good enough?
me: for the second time, and about the tenth in the thread, yes. Per AZ law ALREADY IN PLACE.

No sorry, trolls use start childish insults instead of facts. That's what you did. I have been arguing with facts.

Facts are anything but what you've contributed in this thread. Youve contributed to the usual liberal puppet talking points with nothing to support your statements, whereas my statements HAVE been backed up in this very thread. With law.

It's completely unproven that is what the result will be but it's interesting that you will give up freedom for this promise.

What freedoms am I, or my immigrant wife, giving up with this bill?

You were completely wrong when you denied that "ALL PEOPLE, not just aliens, will have to have their papers on them or face possible detention and arrest"

Just a little fucked up.

No, I wasnt. You obviously havent read the bill, or you've chosen to cherry pick it. The bill is clearly targeted at aliens, not citizens. If you feel Im wrong, feel free to post the part of the bill that states citizens must have "their papers". I would post the part where it clearly says aliens, but it's been posted a couple times in this thread already. I dont feel like contributing more to the lazy than I already have.

 

[flavio]

flavio: Your ID does not very your status of your citizenship.
me: Yes, AZ ID does, as I stated. You were wrong.

No, I was completely right. Your ID or drivers license does not verify your citizenship.

You changed the subject to AZ ID and might be correct depending on if that valley truck driver's CDL was out of state.

Verdict: I was factually correct and you might be as well if that valley drivers CDL is out of state.

flavio: This law allows police detain you upon any "lawful contact" if you cannot prove you are legal.
me: Actually, any of the 24 stop and identify states in the union can. Nothing new here.

I was factually correct again. Your statement could be as well but is unproven. Regardless it does not contradict my statement.

Verdict: I was factually correct and you might be as well if you can substantiate it. You substantiating it in no way will ever disprove my statement.

flavio: First your theory seems flawed about ID.
me: you linked a story that is irrelevant. You seemed to think because this trucker was taken into custody, it was because his CDL wasnt proof enough. Which is true. Had it been an AZ ID or license, it would have.

Your claim was: "And here in AZ, an ID or license will establish that you are here legally."

I disproved your theory by showing where this wasn't the case. You later confined it to AZ licenses.

Verdict: I was factually correct. You were possibly sloppy and didn't specify AZ licenses. Otherwise you were just wrong.

flavio: Are you trying to say a CDL isn't good enough or that out of state licenses aren't good enough?
me: for the second time, and about the tenth in the thread, yes. Per AZ law ALREADY IN PLACE.

I asked a question and you claimed one of the choices was already in place.

Verdict: kind of meaningless.

Facts are anything but what you've contributed in this thread. Youve contributed to the usual liberal puppet talking points with nothing to support your statements, whereas my statements HAVE been backed up in this very thread. With law.

Actually you have proven nothing I've said factually incorrect and have made several statements that you haven't backed up yet.

What freedoms am I, or my immigrant wife, giving up with this bill?

If you or your wife leave the house without being able to prove you are legal you can be incarcerated.

feel free to post the part of the bill that states citizens must have "their papers". I would post the part where it clearly says aliens

This one is easy. As a citizen how are you going to prove your legal without your papers? If you can't then obviously you must have your papers. It didn't work out so well for the truck driver who was a citizen even with his CDL.

Ok, so you're 14 years old and a citizen but don't have an ID yet. There's some "lawful contact". Prove to me that you can keep from being detained without your papers.

Verdict: I was factually correct. It appears you were wrong unless you can come up with something.

 

[palehorse]

Meanwhile, as illegals are fleeing my state, I will smile knowing they arent sucking resources, fueling the meth and human trafficking trade, and our crime is lowering

w00t!