Arizona signs immigration bill into law

[First]

I'm not even sure Republicans realize this absolutely plays into the hands of the Dems, totally and completely shutting the door on any hope of riling up Hispanic support on the right for the 2010 election. This leaves a golden opportunity for Dems and liberals to (rightfully) argue that the right wants no compromise on illegals and (currently) wants no path to citizenship given the Senate filibuster promises we know of. It just alienates a base of voters you don't want to alienate based both on demographics and merit. For crying out loud, it's a law where you're actually going to be asked the historically infamous question "Show me your papers". You can't make that stuff up, that's just a wet dream for libs wanting to argue right-wing fascism.

 

[irishScott]

I'm not even sure Republicans realize this absolutely plays into the hands of the Dems, totally and completely shutting the door on any hope of riling up Hispanic support on the right for the 2010 election. This leaves a golden opportunity for Dems and liberals to (rightfully) argue that the right wants no compromise on illegals and (currently) wants no path to citizenship given the Senate filibuster promises we know of. It just alienates a base of voters you don't want to alienate based both on demographics and merit. For crying out loud, it's a law where you're actually going to be asked the historically infamous question "Show me your papers". You can't make that stuff up, that's just a wet dream for libs wanting to argue right-wing fascism.

And the right will fire back that not only did Obama do nothing, but he admitted that the federal government had failed to act.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/obama-calls-az-immigration-case-misguided-10458562

Sure the lefties will try to use it, but it won't be a huge setback IMO.

 

[bob4432]

I'm not even sure Republicans realize this absolutely plays into the hands of the Dems, totally and completely shutting the door on any hope of riling up Hispanic support on the right for the 2010 election. This leaves a golden opportunity for Dems and liberals to (rightfully) argue that the right wants no compromise on illegals and (currently) wants no path to citizenship given the Senate filibuster promises we know of. It just alienates a base of voters you don't want to alienate based both on demographics and merit. For crying out loud, it's a law where you're actually going to be asked the historically infamous question "Show me your papers". You can't make that stuff up, that's just a wet dream for libs wanting to argue right-wing fascism.

you fail to realize that legal immigrants aren't exactly happy about the illegal ones....cutting in line

 

[PieIsAwesome]

The only part I have a problem with is the part where police would ask people for their papers on "reasonable suspicion" that they are committing the crime of being in the country illegally. "Reasonable suspicion" is not exact enough and the definition varies. This could lead to legal residents or citizens of a certain ethnic appearance being singled out by police.

But this has already been brought up repeatedly. An alternate solution worth considering, I think, would be to make it standard practice to ask people about their residency whenever they are caught committing some other crime. Anything like traffic violations or whatever you can think of. And ask everyone, doesn't matter if they "look" illegal or not. This way those whose ethnic appearances more closely match that of the majority of illegal immigrants are not singled out or randomly stopped on the street to prove their legal residence. It helps solve the crime problem by catching and deporting illegals that commit crimes and forcing others to behave.

Two problems caused by illegals that are brought up are the crimes they commit and their use of social services paid for by citizens and legal residents. The above directly helps solve the first problem, but not the latter. Keeping illegal immigrants from taking advantage of state-provided social services would simply be a matter of requiring proof of legal residence whenever anyone wants to take advantage of such services. This could be extended as a requirement for all those who have undergone hospital treatment. Not only would this outright prevent illegals from using these services (and in the case of emergency hospital treatment, deport illegals after their treatment), but it would make it very difficult to live, and encourage them to leave. Indeed, this combined with the risk of being deported for committing even a minor infraction would be very discouraging for any would-be illegal immigrant.

So its possible to achieve the same results of the Arizona bill without the fascist "show me your papers" thing and the singling out of individuals with certain ethnic appearances.

Then there is the whole thing about making it impossible for them to be employed by any legit business.

 

[First]

And the right will fire back that not only did Obama do nothing, but he admitted that the federal government had failed to act.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/obama-calls-az-immigration-case-misguided-10458562

Sure the lefties will try to use it, but it won't be a huge setback IMO.

Except it has been just 16 months. It's inevitable he'll get an immigration bill passed.

you fail to realize that legal immigrants aren't exactly happy about the illegal ones....cutting in line

Except they're not angry enough to vote for Republicans in droves and the Hispanic vote is in lock-step with Dems.

 

[bob4432]

Except it has been just 16 months. It's inevitable he'll get an immigration bill passed.



Except they're not angry enough to vote for Republicans in droves and the Hispanic vote is in lock-step with Dems.

like the gay and lesbian community? they know he just shoveled on the shit to get their vote and the only reason he will attempt to force down amnesty the same way he did healthcare will piss off immigrants who did it the correct way. you are only seeing the few people on the news because that makes more interesting news, not the huge majority that was for this. to be honest, i am surprised that the coverage they have is all they have. and then the pres gives a half-assed excuse that the feds haven't done their job a couple hours before the governor signs it? again, weak.

it is just sad that it had to come to this since the feds won't protect an international border and citizens of this country are being killed on a weekly if not daily basis because of it. and i know it is just not this admin, but they are who is in control atm so for the time being, it is on them.

 

[dmcowen674]

I'm not even sure Republicans realize this absolutely plays into the hands of the Dems, totally and completely shutting the door on any hope of riling up Hispanic support on the right for the 2010 election. This leaves a golden opportunity for Dems and liberals to (rightfully) argue that the right wants no compromise on illegals and (currently) wants no path to citizenship given the Senate filibuster promises we know of. It just alienates a base of voters you don't want to alienate based both on demographics and merit. For crying out loud, it's a law where you're actually going to be asked the historically infamous question "Show me your papers". You can't make that stuff up, that's just a wet dream for libs wanting to argue right-wing fascism.

The Republican wolves lost their Sheep costume in the field when the Messiah got in and it's getting worse for them everyday. :thumbsup:

 

[Tristicus]

The Republican wolves lost their Sheep costume in the field when the Messiah got in and it's getting worse for them everyday. :thumbsup:

How are you so ignorant? Were you born with it? Were you in a terrible accident? Did Bush physically ravage your ass and now you hate all Republicans because of it?

 

[Danube]

Most minorities favor restricted immigration so what AZ did is not as politically lethal as some people here make it out to sound. From one poll:


In contrast to the leadership of many ethnic advocacy groups, most members of minority groups think immigration is too high.

• Hispanics: 56 percent said it is too high; 7 percent said too low; 14 percent just right.
• Asian-Americans: 57 percent said immigration is too high; 5 percent said too low; 18 percent just right.
• African-Americans: 68 percent said it is too high; 4 percent said too low; 14 percent just right.

Most members of minority groups do not feel that illegal immigration is caused by limits on legal immigration as many ethnic advocacy groups argue; instead, members feel it’s due to a lack of enforcement.

• Hispanics: Just 20 percent said illegal immigration was caused by not letting in enough legal immigrants; 61 percent said inadequate enforcement.
• Asian-Americans: 19 percent said not enough legal immigration; 69 percent said inadequate enforcement.
• African-Americans: 16 percent said not enough legal immigration; 70 percent said inadequate enforcement.

http://www.cis.org/Minority-Views-Immigration

 

[Modelworks]

I saw all those crowds protesting the law in AZ. I wonder how many of them are here illegally.

 

[IronWing]

I saw all those crowds protesting the law in AZ. I wonder how many of them are here illegally.

Here, in a nutshell, is the problem with this law.

 

[Svnla]

Remember, we did a half ass "immigration reform" before, in the 80s under elder Bush administration. We did give amnesty/citizenship for ILLEGALS before and look how things turn out now, for worse, much worse.

Enough is enough. No more amnesty/citizenship for ILLEGALS. Enforce our borders and our laws. Do you hear that Federal Government (BOTH Democrats and Republicans)? If any of you vote for amnesty/citizenship for ILLEGALS, you will be vote out of office.


<<-----LEGAL immigrant and hate ILLEGALS (not who they are, but what they did) with a passion.

 

[blackangst1]

I'm not even sure Republicans realize this absolutely plays into the hands of the Dems, totally and completely shutting the door on any hope of riling up Hispanic support on the right for the 2010 election. This leaves a golden opportunity for Dems and liberals to (rightfully) argue that the right wants no compromise on illegals and (currently) wants no path to citizenship given the Senate filibuster promises we know of. It just alienates a base of voters you don't want to alienate based both on demographics and merit. For crying out loud, it's a law where you're actually going to be asked the historically infamous question "Show me your papers". You can't make that stuff up, that's just a wet dream for libs wanting to argue right-wing fascism.

Youre a complete idiot. LEGAL hispanics support this bill, and are just as pissed off at fast tracking illegals into citizenship as are asians and every other race for that matter. Nice fear talk though.

 

[IronWing]

Youre a complete idiot. LEGAL hispanics support this bill, and are just as pissed off at fast tracking illegals into citizenship as are asians and every other race for that matter. Nice fear talk though.

Therefore any hispanics who oppose this law must be illegal. Might I suggest you rinse out your broadbrush? You're basically painting with bullshit now. Some legal hispanics support the law but others oppose it as they know who is most likely to get harassed and arbitrarily thrown in jail under this law.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Very simply, there is an excellent chance that within a few months these illegals are going to be legal and enfranchised as the newest Democrat voters in the United States.

so you're saying they're willing to take a big shit on their very own country for votes.

 

[blackangst1]

But this has already been brought up repeatedly. An alternate solution worth considering, I think, would be to make it standard practice to ask people about their residency whenever they are caught committing some other crime. Anything like traffic violations or whatever you can think of. And ask everyone, doesn't matter if they "look" illegal or not. This way those whose ethnic appearances more closely match that of the majority of illegal immigrants are not singled out or randomly stopped on the street to prove their legal residence. It helps solve the crime problem by catching and deporting illegals that commit crimes and forcing others to behave.

This already happens. There is nothing in this bill that allows for pulling someone over for being hispanic. Nothing. In fact, current AZ law specifically prohibits this. So quit listening to the fear mongers and read the law yourself.

 

[blackangst1]

Except it has been just 16 months. It's inevitable he'll get an immigration bill passed.



Except they're not angry enough to vote for Republicans in droves and the Hispanic vote is in lock-step with Dems.

Yeah especially when there are Democrat senators calling for Obama to fucking ignore immigration law.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100426/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_enforcement

PHOENIX – An Arizona congressman urged the Obama administration not to cooperate when illegal immigrants are picked up by local police if a tough new state immigration law survives legal challenges.

This prick needs to be voted out of office. And any others who think he's in the right for that matter. Unfuckingbelievable.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

cheap labor. IIRC california's strawberry industry is entirely dependent on it (if i'm wrong feel free to correct me)

i don't buy it.
just like i don't buy that americans won't do the "dirty" jobs. hunger is a great motivator.

 

[blackangst1]

Therefore any hispanics who oppose this law must be illegal. Might I suggest you rinse out your broadbrush? You're basically painting with bullshit now. Some legal hispanics support the law but others oppose it as they know who is most likely to get harassed and arbitrarily thrown in jail under this law.

Thats all you've got? Did I say all? Or even impy it? Does every post need an asteric with a disclaimer that there may be those to whom it doesnt apply? WTF is wrong with you? The fact is, MOST LEGAL immigrants no matter their ethnicity supports this. So fuck off already. Dont like it? make sure you stay in a state that harbors illegals. Pretty simple.

 

[Red Dawn]

Fuck it. I'm proud to be a racist now. VERY proud. Very proud and making more of an impact than most all on this forum.

Everybody knows this

 

[Fenixgoon]

i don't buy it.
just like i don't buy that americans won't do the "dirty" jobs. hunger is a great motivator.

it isn't always that americans aren't willing to do certain jobs (though i have no doubt there are plenty of instances). the whole point of hiring illegal immigrants is that someone else is willing to do it for much cheaper.

as i understood it anyway...

 

[GuitarDaddy]

This is one of those laws that looks great on paper but the actually application has major fail written all over it?

1. How will illegals be identified ? Racial profiling anyone? lawsuits galore?

2. What will the police do with an illegal once identified? Will there be a massive coordination between the police and imigration that currently doesnt exist? Will the police take deportation into their hands? Will illegals remain in local jails until turned over and processed by imigration?


Looks to me like the framers of this bill didn't look past the potential headline grabbing popularity of this idea at the difficulties in applying it. I predict this becomes problematic to implement and sees very little actual enforcment and becomes a feel good law that is not enforced.

 

[blackangst1]

This is one of those laws that looks great on paper but the actually application has major fail written all over it?

1. How will illegals be identified ? Racial profiling anyone? lawsuits galore?

2. What will the police do with an illegal once identified? Will there be a massive coordination between the police and imigration that currently doesnt exist? Will the police take deportation into their hands? Will illegals remain in local jails until turned over and processed by imigration?


Looks to me like the framers of this bill didn't look past the potential headline grabbing popularity of this idea at the difficulties in applying it. I predict this becomes problematic to implement and sees very little actual enforcment and becomes a feel good law that is not enforced.

I know its 11 pages, but your answers are not only in this thread, but in the bill.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I know its 11 pages, but your answers are not only in this thread, but in the bill.

People can't read 11 pages but they will tell you that the 2000 worth in the health care bill has been.

The questions about "how do I prove" pretty much shows that not many people read first, posted second.

 

[nick1985]

People can't read 11 pages but they will tell you that the 2000 worth in the health care bill has been.

The questions about "how do I prove" pretty much shows that not many people read first, posted second.

Its funny to watch them spew shit thats answered in the bill