Arizona passes law banning multilingual requirement for businesses

[spacejamz]

You say that like the offensiveness of that fact should be self evident...but I really just don't see it. We don't have a national language, period. While a lot of people might WISH English was the national language, it's silly to get offended by people not following a non-existent law. It's one thing to be privately pissed off that not everyone speaks the same language you do, I guess, but it's another thing to get publicly bent out of shape because people aren't speaking English just because you think they should.

In other words...immigrants want to communicate in Spanish? Well why the hell shouldn't they be able to if they want? As long as *I* don't have to communicate in Spanish, I honestly have a really hard time getting my panties in a twist about it.

My tax dollars go to print forms in Spanish at local government offices. They go to pay for bilingual clerks so they can answer questions from people who only speak Spanish. I have to hear Spanish options every time I dial into an automated phone system.

All I hear is that my local goverment offices are over budget and are always trying to find ways to cut the budget.

Government should not be in the business of catering to other languages. We did not make them come here and yet they want us to cater to them??

Besides, if it is good for the goose, it should be good for the gander, right?

 

[umbrella39]

Maybe we should start deporting employers that hire illegals.

Same thing goes for employers with companies that work for them like cleaning contrctors with illegals working for them.

And we have a winner! Let's see how serious AZ really is.

 

[Corn]

Every countries downfall can be traced to not having a common language. Speak English or perish.

Is it a full moon tonite? How the hell can a comparative few grains of sand who don't speak english bring down the country? For fuck's sake.......witnessing this absurdity fatigues me........

 

[Rangoric]

There is no official language in the US, so you can't force anyone to speak a single language. That cuts two ways though, people can't be forced to cater to any given language either (So if they only speak Chinese/Spanish/whatever, they can't be sued to speak English)

This "doesn't speak English" comes up with each large enough batch of immigrants though and isnt' anything new.

 

[KMFJD]

Sounds like a milder version of Quebec

 

[Carmen813]

I believe that if we are going to be language police then all of us had better shape up. This thread is full of grammatical errors!

 

[nonlnear]

Sounds like a milder version of Quebec

It's actually the complete opposite of Quebec. The Arizona resolution (and existing law) place no obligations on businesses whatsoever and affirm their liberty, whereas Quebec places very strict controls on language.

 

[Carmen813]

It's actually the complete opposite of Quebec. The Arizona resolution (and existing law) place no obligations on businesses whatsoever and affirm their liberty, whereas Quebec places very strict controls on language.

If businesses want to restrict their pool of available customers, I really have no problem with that. Hell, all this law does is create an opportunity for someone else to step up.

 

[child of wonder]

I don't agree with the immigration law AZ just passed, but I do agree with this one.

If a foreigner, legal or otherwise, wants to work in the US, shop here, etc. they need to learn our language -- not the other way around.

 

[Carmen813]

Has nothing to do with the ability to speak other languages. I speak English, German and Russian since you brought it up.

The problem is these people are here, many of them illegally, and in most cases are refusing to learn and speak our language or assimilate into the culture. You know the whole melting pot idea. So instead we are expected to make allowances for them and print various business/government forms in their language. Sorry Paco, it shouldn't work that way. While in various countries in Europe I never expected the people there to speak English, though some could, and I surely never would have expected them to provide me with forms, etc...in English should I have needed medial services or services of any other kind.

The melting pot "idea" is quite a myth. I guarantee you that every single culture that has ever migrated to the U.S. retains portions of it's base culture. Whether it be religion, food, language, or some other attribute.

No one should be forced to speak any language, if for no other reason than some ideas cannot be translated between them.

 

[spacejamz]

If businesses want to restrict their pool of available customers, I really have no problem with that. Hell, all this law does is create an opportunity for someone else to step up.

The Optometrist did not not want to have a 12 year girl translate a medical dialogue between himself and the lady who could not speak English.

How is that him wanting to restrict his pool of available customers? I thought that it is pretty obvious that he was protecting himself against a future lawsuit, but she still sued him anyway....

 

[Carmen813]

The Optometrist did not not want to have a 12 year girl translate a medical dialogue between himself and the lady who could not speak English.

How is that him wanting to restrict his pool of available customers? I thought that it is pretty obvious that he was protecting himself against a future lawsuit, but she still sued him anyway....

I was referring to the general nature laws/rulings such as these. I've been going back and forth on this, and ultimately I've reached the conclusion that a private business has the right to offer services in any language it chooses (and should not be forced to expand those). However, the natural consequence of that is a smaller pool of customers. I think business owners that are going out of their way to discriminate against non-English speakers are just shooting themselves in the foot long-term. For example, I doubt, as others have suggested, that many businesses will stop offering a Spanish speaking option on their telephone service lines.

I also disagree that anyone should be forced to learn another language (though I have no problem encouraging it). Fact is, demographic trends are going to necessitate accommodating non-English speakers. I've spent a lot of time working with lower income Hispanics, and not being fluent has definitely hurt my ability to my job.

 

[Hammerman]

A little exchange between Bank of America and a customer... It is on snopes also if you want to check it out..

Bank of America, can I help you?

Customer: Yes, I want to cancel my account. I don't want to do business with you any longer.

The Bank: Why?

Customer: You're giving credit to illegal immigrants and I don't think it's right. I'm taking my business elsewhere.

The Bank: Well, Mr. Customer, we don't want to see you do that, but we can't stop you. I'll help you close the account. What is your account number?

Customer: (gives account number)

The Bank: For security purposes and for your protection, can you please give me the last four digits of your social security number?

Customer: No

The Bank: Mr. Customer, I need to verify your information, but in order to help you, I'll need verification of who you are..

Customer: Why should I give you my social security number? The reason I'm closing my account is that your bank is issuing credit cards to illegal immigrants who don't have social security numbers. You are targeting that audience and want their business. Let's say I'm an illegal immigrant and you've given me a credit card. I have a question about it and call for assistance. You wouldn't be asking me for a Social Security number, would you?

The Bank: No sir, I wouldn't.

Customer: Why not?

The Bank: Because you would have pressed '2' to speak in Spanish. We don't ask for that information when calling in on the Spanish line.

 

[PokerGuy]

Uh, while I actually agree with this particular law, I think the perception that Mexican immigrants are somehow distinctive in not learning English is erroneous. In the late 19th/ealy 20th centuries, we had waves of European immigrants come to this country. Some learned to speak English, others not, while many got by speaking broken English. But their KIDS who were either born here or came here as children spoke English. I live in California where we have a lot of Mexicans, and I see that same situation here. Among the first generation, English speaking varies considerably. Among their kids, they speak English. There is just a perception that Mexican immigrants refuse to learn the language or assimilate because right now we have more Mexican immigrants than we do from other countries. And with respect to European immigrants today, many do speak English, but that is because in modern Europe they tend to learn English in school. They didn't learn it after coming here in order to assimilar; they learned it before they even got here. In other words, in Europe they tend to do what we do not do here - learn multiple languages starting in early childhood.

- wolf

I don't have any links to back this up, so take it for what it's worth, but I think the problem we're seeing now is that the mechanisms that made the 'second generation' immigrants speak english (or for that matter, assimilate into society at large) have broken down for a variety of reasons. Parents back then knew that in order for their kids to succeed, they would need to speak english and assimilate. Now you can find large communities where the second or even third generation of immigrants still don't speak english or blend into US society. Go to Miami and you can easily find many areas where second, third, forth generation Americans of Cuban ancestry do not speak english and make no effort to do so. They don't need to: they have radio stations, tv broadcasts, newspapers, stores etc all in spanish. There is no pressure to learn or assimilate, and parents don't feel a need to push the issue, and even schools are in spanish.

Once you reach that stage, the problem won't fade away over time like it has in previous immigration waves, the problem will just get worse.

 

[nick1985]

A little exchange between Bank of America and a customer... It is on snopes also if you want to check it out..

Bank of America, can I help you?

Customer: Yes, I want to cancel my account. I don't want to do business with you any longer.

The Bank: Why?

Customer: You're giving credit to illegal immigrants and I don't think it's right. I'm taking my business elsewhere.

The Bank: Well, Mr. Customer, we don't want to see you do that, but we can't stop you. I'll help you close the account. What is your account number?

Customer: (gives account number)

The Bank: For security purposes and for your protection, can you please give me the last four digits of your social security number?

Customer: No

The Bank: Mr. Customer, I need to verify your information, but in order to help you, I'll need verification of who you are..

Customer: Why should I give you my social security number? The reason I'm closing my account is that your bank is issuing credit cards to illegal immigrants who don't have social security numbers. You are targeting that audience and want their business. Let's say I'm an illegal immigrant and you've given me a credit card. I have a question about it and call for assistance. You wouldn't be asking me for a Social Security number, would you?

The Bank: No sir, I wouldn't.

Customer: Why not?

The Bank: Because you would have pressed '2' to speak in Spanish. We don't ask for that information when calling in on the Spanish line.

Holy shit...thats retarded. I'm feeling lazy, got the snopes link?

 

[Hammerman]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/bankofamerica.asp

 

[Pantoot]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/bankofamerica.asp

I didn't see that exchange in that links, got another?

 

[CitizenKain]

I didn't see that exchange in that links, got another?

That conversation never happened, so there is no link.

 

[ciproxr]

Sweet home Arizona! i got to get down to arizona and check it out

 

[OutHouse]

Sounds like a milder version of Quebec

you have no idea what you are talking about its not even close enough to be mild.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Are you people actually proud that you can only understand one language? In many other advanced countries you're almost required to be bilingual by the time you get out of high school.

What's the over/under on how long it takes Arizona to pass their anti-evolution bill?

So is that second language in Europe always supposed to be Spanish?

The second most spoken language in this country is probably Spanish but that does not mean that all should be required to know it.

(I know, dumbass thread resurrection but I couldn't help it with all of the other AZ news on the first page)

 

[ayabe]

This will never happen in FL, too many Cuban/PR/DR transplants.

Shit even the signage/labels in Publix in south florida is in english and spanish

 

[ayabe]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/bankofamerica.asp

Nice motherfucking fail on your chain letter, get out of here.

 

[drbrock]

amazing, go AZ. teach those immigrants this is America, f**k yeah.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Holy shit...thats retarded. I'm feeling lazy, got the snopes link?

Better yet, call BOA to perform some transaction known to require the social and use the Spanish line, record the call and listen to hear if it asks for the last four digits.