Arizona passes law banning multilingual requirement for businesses

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Blackjack200

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
Pulsar said:
Wow. It's rare you see two people in the same thread supporting the same complete logical fallacies.
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Yeah? What "logical fallacies" are in my post? A logical fallacy is generally an internally flawed argument. You may disagree with something, but that doesn't make is fallacious.

Yes. In most countries where English is NOT the first language. You see, english is a nearly universal language, and in most countries you can find english speakers. So, people who live in Vietnam speak Vietnamese and a portion speak.... english. Because it is a necessity to communicate to the world at large. Yet on the other hand, we already speak english.
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The same can be said of French, though to a lesser degree. In any case, all of this is meaningless. Of course there are geopolitical reasons that most Americans don't speak foreign languages. I have no problem with that. My point was that you don't need to freak out and take it as an assault on our culture when someone dares to speak another language within our borders.

The majority of Canadiens do not speak French. Quebec, on the other hand, speaks largely French. However, they also look down severely on people who can NOT speak French, and also regularly vote to secede from Canada to become their own seperate country. Again, that has nothing to do with their schools, their desire to be more worldly, or anything else to that affect. It's mostly pure arrogance. Hint: I LIVE 5 minutes from Canada and do a ton of business in Canuckistan.

Mexicans speaking spanish is hardly a revelation. However, you will find that many Americans living close to Mexico speak both languages too, again out of necessity. Your logic completely fails on both points.
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For the last time, the post I was responding to compared our country to a European country that borders countries that speak other languages. Quebec borders the US. Mexico borders the US. It's fucking cut and dry.
 
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ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Zedtom said:
Nobody gets offended when they see a sign saying: No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service.

But put up a sign that says: This is an English spoken only establishment, and then wait for the protests to begin.
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Might help with business. I remember a news story where a business owner booted a family from his restaurant because the kids were being retarded. News articles said something about how this might negatively affect his business, but the exact opposite happened. He received a bunch of letters, some of them from people who don't even live in the US, praising him for trying to keep an orderly establishment.

If you're running an english-only business, you might get a lot of support from people who agree with you.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
ShawnD1 said:
Might help with business. I remember a news story where a business owner booted a family from his restaurant because the kids were being retarded. News articles said something about how this might negatively affect his business, but the exact opposite happened. He received a bunch of letters, some of them from people who don't even live in the US, praising him for trying to keep an orderly establishment.

If you're running an english-only business, you might get a lot of support from people who agree with you.
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This guy is getting a ton of business.

051710_yates_6p_1_tmb0001_20100517182759_320_240.JPG


http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpps/adv...-anti-illegal-immigration-sign-051710_7596283
 
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ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
spidey07 said:
This guy is getting a ton of business.

051710_yates_6p_1_tmb0001_20100517182759_320_240.JPG


http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpps/adv...-anti-illegal-immigration-sign-051710_7596283
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I must be watching too much porn. When I saw "wet" then the rest blurred out, I couldn't think of anything appropriate to fill that with. Then I click the next link and one of the comments is about wetbacks. So now the word "back" can't be shown on television? South Park can say shit on network television but the news can't say back :hmm:
 
blackangst1

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,360
126
ShawnD1 said:
Might help with business. I remember a news story where a business owner booted a family from his restaurant because the kids were being retarded. News articles said something about how this might negatively affect his business, but the exact opposite happened. He received a bunch of letters, some of them from people who don't even live in the US, praising him for trying to keep an orderly establishment.

If you're running an english-only business, you might get a lot of support from people who agree with you.
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There was also the story of the owner of Geno's Steaks, the Philly cheese steak owner, who had the sign that said "This is America - when ordering please speak english" and caught all kinds of shit for it. Interestingly enough, at the time, Obama supported him, but not the AZ law. Well, I guess thats typical for him.
 
NesuD

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
106
106
Blackjack200 said:
My point was that you don't need to freak out and take it as an assault on our culture when someone dares to speak another language within our borders.
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The problem isn't that they dare to speak another language but that they refuse to learn and speak the de facto official language of the United States which is english and then attempt to force their language on the english speaking majority.
 
spacejamz

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,997
1,745
126
Blackjack200 said:
My point was that you don't need to freak out and take it as an assault on our culture when someone dares to speak another language within our borders.
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Tell that to the optomerist who got sued....
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
spacejamz said:
Tell that to the optomerist who got sued....
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I wonder what would happen if I sued a business when I was in another country because they wouldn't cater to english? I'm thinking I'd be arrested, locked up, deported, jailed, or worse.
 
MJinZ

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
Jesus Christ, if you want everyone to speak and deal with you in your native language, stay in your own god damned Native Country or GTFO!
 
S

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
spidey07 said:
I wonder what would happen if I sued a business when I was in another country because they wouldn't cater to english? I'm thinking I'd be arrested, locked up, deported, jailed, or worse.
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You should be killed for doing that.
 
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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
0
shiner said:
Has nothing to do with the ability to speak other languages. I speak English, German and Russian since you brought it up.

The problem is these people are here, many of them illegally, and in most cases are refusing to learn and speak our language or assimilate into the culture. You know the whole melting pot idea. So instead we are expected to make allowances for them and print various business/government forms in their language. Sorry Paco, it shouldn't work that way. While in various countries in Europe I never expected the people there to speak English, though some could, and I surely never would have expected them to provide me with forms, etc...in English should I have needed medial services or services of any other kind.
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Uh, while I actually agree with this particular law, I think the perception that Mexican immigrants are somehow distinctive in not learning English is erroneous. In the late 19th/ealy 20th centuries, we had waves of European immigrants come to this country. Some learned to speak English, others not, while many got by speaking broken English. But their KIDS who were either born here or came here as children spoke English. I live in California where we have a lot of Mexicans, and I see that same situation here. Among the first generation, English speaking varies considerably. Among their kids, they speak English. There is just a perception that Mexican immigrants refuse to learn the language or assimilate because right now we have more Mexican immigrants than we do from other countries. And with respect to European immigrants today, many do speak English, but that is because in modern Europe they tend to learn English in school. They didn't learn it after coming here in order to assimilar; they learned it before they even got here. In other words, in Europe they tend to do what we do not do here - learn multiple languages starting in early childhood.

- wolf
 
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Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Munky said:
I shouldn't have to push extra buttons just because some foreigners refuse to learn English.
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Maybe not, but is it so important that we focused on symbolic battles instead of real issues?

And I find it a little hard to come down on people who support the idea that not everyone in this country speaks fluent English. Why? Because having traveled quite a bit overseas, I'm always glad to find that foreigners in other countries make an effort to accommodate the fact that I only speak English fluently. I figure I'd sound pretty hypocritical coming down the mountain on having to "press 1 for English" when I enjoy the fact that I can go into a hotel in Germany and register for a room in English as well.
 
werepossum

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
woolfe9999 said:
Uh, while I actually agree with this particular law, I think the perception that Mexican immigrants are somehow distinctive in not learning English is erroneous. In the late 19th/ealy 20th centuries, we had waves of European immigrants come to this country. Some learned to speak English, others not, while many got by speaking broken English. But their KIDS who were either born here or came here as children spoke English. I live in California where we have a lot of Mexicans, and I see that same situation here. Among the first generation, English speaking varies considerably. Among their kids, they speak English. There is just a perception that Mexican immigrants refuse to learn the language or assimilate because right now we have more Mexican immigrants than we do from other countries. And with respect to European immigrants today, many do speak English, but that is because in modern Europe they tend to learn English in school. They didn't learn it after coming here in order to assimilar; they learned it before they even got here. In other words, in Europe they tend to do what we do not do here - learn multiple languages starting in early childhood.

- wolf
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All true and good points, but much public education is now conducted in Spanish. Many of these kids speak English only as a second language and conduct most of their lives in Spanish even though many have lived their whole lives in America.
 
Zebo

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Breed em? Don't we breed animals and former slaves? I guess they are going for rhythm and rhyme tho.
 
R

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
werepossum said:
All true and good points, but much public education is now conducted in Spanish. Many of these kids speak English only as a second language and conduct most of their lives in Spanish even though many have lived their whole lives in America.
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You say that like the offensiveness of that fact should be self evident...but I really just don't see it. We don't have a national language, period. While a lot of people might WISH English was the national language, it's silly to get offended by people not following a non-existent law. It's one thing to be privately pissed off that not everyone speaks the same language you do, I guess, but it's another thing to get publicly bent out of shape because people aren't speaking English just because you think they should.

In other words...immigrants want to communicate in Spanish? Well why the hell shouldn't they be able to if they want? As long as *I* don't have to communicate in Spanish, I honestly have a really hard time getting my panties in a twist about it.
 
G

grebe925

Member
Feb 22, 2008
88
0
0
Rainsford said:
You say that like the offensiveness of that fact should be self evident...but I really just don't see it. We don't have a national language, period. While a lot of people might WISH English was the national language, it's silly to get offended by people not following a non-existent law. It's one thing to be privately pissed off that not everyone speaks the same language you do, I guess, but it's another thing to get publicly bent out of shape because people aren't speaking English just because you think they should.

In other words...immigrants want to communicate in Spanish? Well why the hell shouldn't they be able to if they want? As long as *I* don't have to communicate in Spanish, I honestly have a really hard time getting my panties in a twist about it.
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As usual, Rainsford is tilting windmills. No one is forcing you to not speak Spanish. The law basically says that a business does not have to listen to you if you do so and stops you from legally whining about it.
 
S

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Every countries downfall can be traced to not having a common language. Speak English or perish.
 
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