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Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
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Or maybe I'm a longtime forum member that has been trading posts with moonbeam for years and am honestly concerned?

zebo - simply responding to moonbeam's last post.

DealMonkey - too old, experienced and cynical to think that I can keep anyone on an internet message board "in line". Just posting my thoughts and opinions. Thanks for your reply.

Michael
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
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Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Here is one thing I notice about Neo-cons, they are all about money.

Old school conservatives from back in the day were all about the US. They only drove domestic vehicles, they were against buying anything that wasn't from the US, they called corporations who would jump ship and move their plants to China, traitors. I know first hand living in Michigan.

The so called "new" conservatives support Israel to death, would die for Israel even though their Catholic, justify welfare to Israel, try to squeeze out as much money as possible from anyone and everyone, moving business overseas because it's cheaper. It's not about America and Americans, it's about how much money they are going to make. Selfish bloodsucking money whores. This is the 2003 conservative. All the good conservatives are either dead or old now.
No that is not a 2003 conservative that is a 2003 neo-con. There are plenty of "real conservatives" still around yet they do not sound off as loudly as the neo-con's do. Right now I see the GOP ( which has been hi-jacked by the neo-con agenda ) divided like this.....Neo-Con's on one side and "real conservatives" on another side.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Originally posted by: Michael
Or maybe I'm a longtime forum member that has been trading posts with moonbeam for years and am honestly concerned?

zebo - simply responding to moonbeam's last post.

DealMonkey - too old, experienced and cynical to think that I can keep anyone on an internet message board "in line". Just posting my thoughts and opinions. Thanks for your reply.

Michael
So let me go see what my last post and your response was:

Moonbeam: "I can't help it, Hero, I'm just a really bad dude. I guess watching people of character, character assassinate liberals just kinda got on my nerves. And besides I'm absolutely right about everything I say being as how it comes straight from God. I can understand very well, unimaginably well in fact, what a pain in the ass I can be. I guess about your only hope is figuring out why I bother you in particularly. You can always try decommissioning your buttons so they don't get pushed every time I walk by."

To which you respond with the above mentioned honest concern:

Michael: "moonbeam - You can also stop trolling. I'm afraid that you've become addicted to it and you're doing it for the pure pleasure of getting the reaction, not for a cause you believe in. Or maybe you just feel so superior that you like to knick the ant hill and watch the puny little ants scurry around. If half the posts you make about yourself and your views are true (the more serious ones where you try and describe yourself), then I think you've allowed yourself to be seriously swayed away from what you believe in.

You like to say that Bush has hit his tar baby and now it is sticking to him. did you hit a tar baby posting on this forum? Are tactics you claim to dislike now sticking to you?

Or are you just an outright troll?
-------------------
OK, first off I think you've used an awkward grammatical construction I'm having trouble getting my mind around. I'm not sure what you mean by 'I have allowed myself to be seriously swayed away from what I believe.' Who applied this suasion to me? Me? If so, how would I sway myself away from what I believe? I assume you must mean I have somehow wandered away from what I have said, elsewhere, I believe. This would mean that there is a gap between what I preach, so to speak, and what I do. Is that what you are saying?

Lets assume so for a minute and go on:

Ok, you informed me I can stop trolling. Whoa, don't you think that was kind of brusque way to begin? What if I wasn't even aware I was trolling? It's not perhaps, in that case, necessarily going to be easy for me to assimilate this advice. In fact I'm not really sure what a troll is or what you mean by it. I never thought of myself as one, I suppose. Now I know it's difficult to see yourself, I'm, talking here to me, (it's not easy to see myself) so my general practice, when I'm feeling honestly concerned about showing somebody else something directly, is not to be too provocative. In other words I wouldn't, under normal circumstances, walk up to some deluded troll and say you can stop trolling because my anticipation would be that they would just get defensive. Of course you may see things beyond what I can see, but right off the bat, based on the level at which my intuition operates, I'm just a bit suspicious of your tone. It's not one that I would take and call seriously concerned and operating to the best of my intuition, however poor it may be, is the best I can do. It's all the standard I can muster.

But in good spirit, let?s not let my suspicions stop us from moving on. I want to take what you say seriously (as serious as I can) like others never do with me Your next point:

"I'm afraid that you've become addicted to it and you're doing it for the pure pleasure of getting the reaction, not for a cause you believe in."

Ok here a couple of red lights also, unfortunately, come on. Why and how did you come to suspect this thing? Everything I understand about others is because I've seen it in myself. That what my consciousness, my life experience tells me. Do you see what I see; is such a point of view a part of your experience too? Are you aware of an addiction you have to getting a reaction to your posts? Does that cause you to be worried? Do you think in this same way as me, i.e. that we project the content of our unconscious mind out onto the world? The flaws we see in others are the ones we hide from ourselves..... right? I ask because if you are unaware of how this works, and I'm right, you could just be projecting on me. There wouldn't be much use in me busting my ass here to see myself if this is really just about you. Know what I mean? But I'll keep going just as if I knew you'd taken this into account. I want to give your words a serious hearing:

?Or maybe you just feel so superior that you like to knick the ant hill and watch the puny little ants scurry around.?

Again a bit harsh in my estimation for honest concern, but hey, what do I know. And also this raises the same questions I dealt with above. I can, I think, answer this more certainly, though, anyway. No, I don?t think I feel superior like that. If there is truth here it would be because I feel just the opposite, inferior and in need of showing off my what, (beautiful boot?) in a feeble attempt to falsely prop up my ailing self esteem. I believe, in other words, that all pretension of superiority is a result of hidden feelings of worthlessness.

Your critique of me does raise some serious and potentially perhaps even valid point, however, and about which I will admit to being suspicious about myself from time to time, and which, therefore, I can honestly tell you I often reflect on. Maybe you are right, so let?s go on:

?If half the posts you make about yourself and your views are true (the more serious ones where you try and describe yourself), then I think you've allowed yourself to be seriously swayed away from what you believe in.?

Well I mentioned my grammatical question here but there?s another problem too. The truth or falseness of your comment in part lies in how accurately you understand what I post. If you haven?t the foggiest notion what the portion of my serious posts you refer to mean and what they imply about me, you wouldn?t, naturally, be in a very good position to say if I?ve drifted off or not. But we?re in charity mode here, so we?ll assume you do:

Well now this is really something with which I struggle all the time. How can I best say what it is I want to say and at the same time care for the wolf and the sheep entrusted in my keeping, In short, how do I post fulfilling all the duties to myself as a man and to you as one as well? Not an easy question to answer, but one I think about it a lot.

I sometimes think to myself that I should just say exactly what I think is true. But then I think it would be a waste of time. Nobody has the ears to hear, nobody being a relatively statistical term. And what am I going to feed the wolf among so savage a lot? I don?t want my sheep eaten for lack of protection now do I? I'm using a short hand personal language here, I know. The inner world has such a poor English vocabulary. So anyway I do think about your point. Next:

?You like to say that Bush has hit his tar baby and now it is sticking to him. did you hit a tar baby posting on this forum? Are tactics you claim to dislike now sticking to you??

Could you maybe clarify what tactics you mean? I?m not used to anybody, again statistically speaking, having even a remote appreciation for my tactics. They?re not that wild or anything and I don't really think of them as tactics actually, but perhaps 'my strategy' is a bit out of the norm. That said, then, it would strike me as most unusual you?d know what they are. Naturally that raises the question as to which of us has a better insight into what I?m really doing. I have to think about what you say. So some answers to my questions here above will help in that a lot:

With regard to the grammar thingi, were you implying that I don't do what I preach?

Are you aware of and did you consider the possibility that you are projecting?

What is your view of what my pasts posts, the serious ones, say?

What is your definition or vision of my 'tactics'?

If I knew the answers to the above questions I would be in a better able to respond.

 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
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Moonbeam's haphazard style of quoting and replying is much like the abstract expressionism art form. While on the whole it gets the job done, the surface qualities leave a bit to be desired.

He opens with the use of the Quote function (excellent!)...then later on down we encounter some headers end-marked with colons. This sudden switch of styles is notable. Moving on down we see some user names ended with colons. Then completely out of the blue he challenges us with a horizontal line composed of dashes. Still further on we see the colons are replaced by quotation marks, certainly a rare form used by several other quoters here.

It's a mixture of expressive violence tamed only slightly by the harnessing of surreal constructs. Bold yet shy. Sheltered yet revealing. Interesting yet sore to the eyes...
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Jelly, that was beautiful, not that it was about my post. That was beautiful anywhere sort of exemplifying that of which you speak. I liked it anyway.

Lunar, please don't do that. I scrolled down that page a bit and saw the ugliest thing I've ever seen. It was truly horrifying and horrible all in one. I don't ever want to see anything that ugly again.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Jelly, did you consider that you might be one of the statistically unimportant I talked about? :D
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,137
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Careful MB, you're walking a narrow rope here. Michael's gonna bust your punk-ass and haul you downtown for some questioning by the mods...
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Brings to mind Basil Fawlty... with Sybil about to harp about another of his innocent little ventures... we need Manuel.... he's from Barcelona ya know...:)
 

LilBlinbBlahIce

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2001
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You know, I'm really curious to see how many neo-cons are actually in this forum. Moonie, why don't you add a poll? Something simple like:

Are you a neo-con?
1. yes, it's the only political philosophy that will save America.
2. no, thier just facists by any other name.
3. yes, but I do not support all thier idiology.
4. no, but I support a lot of the things they stand for.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
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Moonbeam - people I don't take seriously I just ignore. I don't ignore you and I don't think I ever have.

You can write paragraph after paragraph explaining around the issue, but you also write post after post where you say that you're looking for a negative, emotional reaction as the reason for you posting. When you have no connection to the topic at hand and you post only to stir people up you're trolling.

As I've said often before, unless the mods step in and say "stop", you are, of course, welcome to post whatever you want to. I'll also comment where I feel it is appropriate.

Michael
 

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
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Hi,

I've noticed that so far in this thread, whenever anyone defends any of the pro-active/agressive neo-con policies listed, they always take the military view. Let us not forget that economic policies enacted in this way can also have a very negative effect on certain countries/people - whilst at the same time contributing to the US GDP.

Just wanted to point out that you don't need a gun to make someone's life hell.

Andy
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Well Lil, I answered your post about 2 in the morning but I must have closed rather than post cause my answer's not here. My suggestion is to go ahead and do a thread yourself with a poll cause I don't do polls myself. I never respond to them and don't even know how to create one because I don't believe in answering them. I don't like them because I believe politicians should go for what is true, not what will get or keep votes.
 

LilBlinbBlahIce

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2001
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Well Lil, I answered your post about 2 in the morning but I must have closed rather than post cause my answer's not here. My suggestion is to go ahead and do a thread yourself with a poll cause I don't do polls myself. I never respond to them and don't even know how to create one because I don't believe in answering them. I don't like them because I believe politicians should go for what is true, not what will get or keep votes.
I agree with you and I just want to do one out of curiosity, it should be interesting to see if anyone will come out of the proverbial closet and try to justify the reasons they are neo-cons.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Michael: Moonbeam - people I don't take seriously I just ignore. I don't ignore you and I don't think I ever have.

Moonbeam: I'm happy to hear that but I don't exactly see why you put that here. One guess is that you feel I shined you on and you're saying you didn't do that to me. If that's it, I can't see how you feel that way.

Michael: You can write paragraph after paragraph explaining around the issue, but you also write post after post where you say that you're looking for a negative, emotional reaction as the reason for you posting. When you have no connection to the topic at hand and you post only to stir people up you're trolling.

Moonbeam: Hehe, ok, is this what this is all about? Holy Cow, Michael, this is the first time I took a deep look at what I just quoted you just said. And I just spent about an hour editing my original post to make it as clear as I can for you to understand thinking that would help you and me get clearer on your point. I hope you reread it just in case it does tell you more. But wow, I'm a troll because you think I'm going for a negative reaction. For crap sakes. Didn't you read everything else I said in that regard, or did you just dismiss it?

Well let me explain as best I can again.

I believe that truth is always some third way. That means that the left and the right are aspects of a triangle that are unified at a higher level, as electricity and magnetism are. You can see this on the dollar bill, the triangular pyramid and the seeing eye. Consciousness is the integration of opposites, the essence of paradox, the insight that flips the world. When you discover, and deal with paradox, you approach truth.

An important question, then, is what is the nature of insight. How does it occur. What helps and what hinders the ability to see. I answer this with the concept of cabbage, personal baggage, assumptions, rigidity of thought, attachment to ideals. But what good is talk, Michael. When you talk to a stuffed cabbage the talk turns to cabbage leaves. Before anybody can learn they have to unlearn, they have to see they can't see. Before that they have to realize that they are attached. If I tell you you are attached won't you just shine me on? But If I tell you liberals are great we can have some fun. :D Boy am I ever attached to delusion, huh? It's easy to see me, no? Hehe, Moonbeam is a clown.

So when you say I'm looking for a negative emotional reaction, you are incorrect. I'm not looking for it. I know it's already there. I've explained a million times that our attachment is the result of identification. I am a Republican, a Christian, an American, a patriot, all the millions and billions of empty 'isms in the world, all these wonderfully adored things. When we become that, we become adorable too. And why do we seek this? Because we have been made to feel we are the worst in the world. We have all been put down and made to feel that way. All the hatred and contempt we are capable of is how we were made to feel about our true original, unattached, independent, wonderful selves. Through identification we soothe our pain. Now we are a part of the good and deny our original wonderful selves.

Now an ounce of demonstration is worth a whole pound of explanation so what more should I say? In me you see yourself. That's why I am a clown. :D Come on in, the water's fine.

You see the question boils down to the topic at hand. What is the topic at hand? For you it's maybe the GDP but for me it's the extinction of the human race. Unless we awaken we're lemmings running to the sea. So in my opinion I have a profound interest in the topic at hand, the real topic at hand, not the one you want to discuss to stay asleep. The topic at hand is not this or that, but finding some third way. So, no, I am not your troll. I don't post just to stir people up, but to wake them up to how deeply they are attached. I'm also fully aware just how popular that is. ;) Of course that's just my opinion, right, and like you I support the following point of view:

Unless the mods step in and say "stop", you are, of course, welcome to post whatever you want to. I'll also comment where I feel it is appropriate.






 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Jelly, that was beautiful, not that it was about my post. That was beautiful anywhere sort of exemplifying that of which you speak. I liked it anyway.
I'm sorry about that but your form overwhelmed your message. I was unable to comment on the content, only the presentation.
Jelly, did you consider that you might be one of the statistically unimportant I talked about?
I think of it often, when I'm not distracted by everyday trivia, speaking of which..
heheheheheheh
Lunar, I think I failed that test....all I saw were naked female bodies....what on earth is wrong with me?

Anyway, back to neocons and politics. It's a growing movement and a dangerous one. It feeds on fear and seeks depravity, control and death. It twists the nature of the constitution and at times flat out ignores it. The end-game of neoconism is a terrible form of government: fascism.

Awareness is the first step in defeating it. I just hope the more reasonable Rs are able to knock it down before it really gets out of hand.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Jelly, it has already gotten wildly out of hand. It has slimed our country.

I reread my post and see I was very unclear. Let me try again

Jelly, that was beautiful, beyondaspects of it that were rather flattering, It was beautiful as a piece of writing. It would have been beautiful standing by itself, linguistically or artistically very appealing. You may have the soul of a literary critic.
 
Dec 27, 2001
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All I can say is...thanks, MB, for finally making an attempt to use markup in your posts. That wasn't too painful was it? Now for getting you to exercise some logical reasoning...
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Jelly,
Lunar, I think I failed that test....all I saw were naked female bodies....what on earth is wrong with me?

Not a thing... I always see three naked females... but, I dream... I mean, I digress... :)

Actually, I saw a frog... and a funny looking frog... and a frog that looked like a frog and a cow... but, I'm somewhat related to Moonbeam... so anything is possible... :)

 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Lunar, should I find out what 'markup' is before I say your welcome?
I couldn't fingure out what you meant... then I reread Hero's post and figured you must a meant him's post but I'm not sure about markup .. although I might use it to define the process of agreeing a bill in congress at the final stages... :)

 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
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I think he means 'markup' in the sense that you formatted your message w/ spaces and paragraph breaks rather than just letting all of the text run together...

Unless the cost of your posts has suddenly gone up ;)
 

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