• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Are you a Neocon?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
I liked the neo-cons better when they were Democrats. The sooner that the real Republican conservatives realize the neo-cons are the enemy and disavow support for these socialists the better. :|
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
0
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: Zebo
I need an econmonics lesson from you like I need a whole in my head..
Looks like you already got one.
Six acutally however you only have Five since both your ears only count as one.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,712
3,517
126
Originally posted by: Corn
I liked the neo-cons better when they were Democrats. The sooner that the real Republican conservatives realize the neo-cons are the enemy and disavow support for these socialists the better. :|
Perhaps they feel that the means justifies the ends.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,430
1
0
Originally posted by: Corn
I liked the neo-cons better when they were Democrats. The sooner that the real Republican conservatives realize the neo-cons are the enemy and disavow support for these socialists the better. :|
Yep, it seems the neocons took the worst of the Dems and the worst of the Repubs and merged them into the neocon ideology. It seems they want to set loose the unbridled growth of government and let it interfere with everyone and everything, everywhere. Or maybe I'm just paranoid.

 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,430
1
0
By the way Moonbeam, I read this the speech by Ron Paul the other day. Found it to be a very interesting read. Think there's hope that our government will ever serve the people again? I'm not optimistic. The people that would and could fix things won't ever get elected in enough numbers to make a difference. The one's that do, often seem to lose their lofty ambitions in the ideological meatgrinder of Washington.
 

drewshin

Golden Member
Dec 14, 1999
1,464
0
0
dont these neocons eerily remind you of communists/facsists? maybe the term should be 'neocommie' instead of neocon.

1 They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.

4 They accept the notion that the ends justify the means?that hardball politics is a moral necessity.

6 They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.

7 They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.

8 They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.

9 They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.

12 They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.

13 Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.

16 They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,136
37
91
Originally posted by: Zebo
I need an econmonics lesson from you like I need a whole in my head.. Tell me Dari whens the last time Debt got paid off during that mystical "economic upturn"? In the last 25 yesrs it's grown from 1 trillion to almost 6 trillion. Still waiting.

Inflation... Read the quoted post before you reply. He explains it perfectly. What happens when you print new (meaning more than in circulation than before you printed it) money and distrubute it thoughout the economy visa vi the government?
my mistake, I should've replaced "paid" with "serviced."
 
Dec 27, 2001
11,272
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Bravo Moonie. :beer:
That's what I said. That was one clever post. Phew. Creating a fake list of traits attributed to far extremes of extreme minorities and assign it to your opposition. That requires cheerworthy intellect indeed. Bravo.
What you said so far is:

"This is what you're resorting to now? :shakehead" and " Looks like you already got one." neither of which look like "Bravo Moonie :beer:" as you claim.

Further, saying I created that list and implying a lack of intellect therein is a rather phony thing to say. You didn?t understand that the list was a quote? If not you're probably rather dull, or one of the ready fire aim crowd. Try at least not to make your insults sound stupid. I don't need that kind of flattery.
Sorry. You're right. It takes far more intellect to copy and paste a list of traits than to even come up with them on your own. But, hey, you got the reaction you wanted...all the copy-paste libbies jumped on the thread to go "Yeeha".
 

Trezza

Senior member
Sep 18, 2002
522
0
0
My opinon or comments in bold:

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Some of their principles to help you decide:

1 They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.

2 They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.

you make it seem that this area was peaceful before the neocons and not a hot bed of war and terrorism, redrawing the map might be the best thing for this region in the long term

3 They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.

Gulf war 2 is technically not pre-emptive as the cease fire of Gulf War 1 stated that if Iraq couldn't prove weapons were gone then the cease fire is over. If the US say attacks North Korea or other place without any reason then its wrong, as long as the reason is insignificant

4 They accept the notion that the ends justify the means?that hardball politics is a moral necessity.

sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't i'm not a politician and wouldn't want to be.

5 They express no opposition to the welfare state.

to general for me to comment on

6 They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.

There is no american empire, just because we are the most powerful country and we throw our weight around ever once and awhile doesn't make us an empire. I don't remember America being called an Empire whenever we help some other country and our soldiers die there. While this war will make iraq a better place when its finished this war was started because of its benifits to US security and middle east stability.

7 They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.

Do you really want to know about everything that happens in the government, every suspected terrorist attack, every communication from our government to another? The reason they "lie" is because its better that you don't know everything.

8 They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.

It is a benefit, the inital government the US had didn't last long because the states had more powerful than the federal government, therefore making it impossible for the country as a whole to do anything. As long as our government follows the checks and balences set forth in the constitution the federal government is only as powerful as the parts allow. The Judical system is designed to rule on how the country is doing according to the constitution. If your concerns are that something is out of bounds from that, the supreme court is the place to go.

9 They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.

Anyone can run for office. Rich / elite people don't elect themselves into positions, people vote for them.

10 They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill advised.

Neutrality is bad, its a sign of indifference. A world power should have an opinion on everything that happens and is meaningful. Show me a list of all the world powers that were neutral and how long they lasted.

11 They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.

12 They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.

i don't agree with that

13 Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.

The use of US forces an Iraq and afganistan are for the defense of america, a pro active defense but a defense none the less. do you think that we should spend the most money on our armies and have them sit in bases while there are threats to our nation?

14 9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.

9-11 resulted in intelligence failure and the fact that we didn't get bin Laden after the first WTC attack

15 They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists.)

i have nothing against libertarians, though i may disagree with there beliefs and or values, that makes be a human being not an evil dictator.

16 They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.

Do you really think that they have time to look at every single citizens information. Think about how many people are in the US, then think about how many G-men there are...ok no think about how many terrorists they think are in the country or people who may be terrorists. Where do you think they are going to be looking. Trust me they don't care about your metallica mp3s or porn on your computer.

17 They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.

negative can't say i unconditionally support Israel but if you say who would be least likely to attack you in the next 100 years my money is on Israel over any other middle eastern country.

From;

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES


Full ananlsis here
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,712
3,517
126
Sorry. You're right. It takes far more intellect to copy and paste a list of traits than to even come up with them on your own. But, hey, you got the reaction you wanted...all the copy-paste libbies jumped on the thread to go "Yeeha".
--------------------------
Yes, I know, it's my insecurity. I get so scared when people disagree with me. All the agreement makes me happy though and I don't get all worked up where I need to insult somebody like you. Not that I can't though because in addition to reveling in the Yeeha, I also enjoy the moronic posts like yours.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
No... guess I'm not a neocon... in fact... who could claim to be one..? Who'd want to be.. and then admit it... beats me...
 
Dec 27, 2001
11,272
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Sorry. You're right. It takes far more intellect to copy and paste a list of traits than to even come up with them on your own. But, hey, you got the reaction you wanted...all the copy-paste libbies jumped on the thread to go "Yeeha".
--------------------------
Yes, I know, it's my insecurity. I get so scared when people disagree with me. All the agreement makes me happy though and I don't get all worked up where I need to insult somebody like you. Not that I can't though because in addition to reveling in the Yeeha, I also enjoy the moronic posts like yours.
Sure it's the insecurity, but you also get quite a jolt out of antagonizing any non raging liberals on these boards. Either way you soak it up so much it's a wonder you don't have 10,000+ posts yet.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,137
1
0
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Sorry. You're right. It takes far more intellect to copy and paste a list of traits than to even come up with them on your own. But, hey, you got the reaction you wanted...all the copy-paste libbies jumped on the thread to go "Yeeha".
--------------------------
Yes, I know, it's my insecurity. I get so scared when people disagree with me. All the agreement makes me happy though and I don't get all worked up where I need to insult somebody like you. Not that I can't though because in addition to reveling in the Yeeha, I also enjoy the moronic posts like yours.
Sure it's the insecurity, but you also get quite a jolt out of antagonizing any non raging liberals on these boards. Either way you soak it up so much it's a wonder you don't have 10,000+ posts yet.
He does have 10,000+ posts. Are you seriously that bad at reading? 'Cause you know there are some special schools for you...
 
Dec 27, 2001
11,272
0
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Sorry. You're right. It takes far more intellect to copy and paste a list of traits than to even come up with them on your own. But, hey, you got the reaction you wanted...all the copy-paste libbies jumped on the thread to go "Yeeha".
--------------------------
Yes, I know, it's my insecurity. I get so scared when people disagree with me. All the agreement makes me happy though and I don't get all worked up where I need to insult somebody like you. Not that I can't though because in addition to reveling in the Yeeha, I also enjoy the moronic posts like yours.
Sure it's the insecurity, but you also get quite a jolt out of antagonizing any non raging liberals on these boards. Either way you soak it up so much it's a wonder you don't have 10,000+ posts yet.
He does have 10,000+ posts. Are you seriously that bad at reading? 'Cause you know there are some special schools for you...
The only thing sharper than your sense of smell is your sense of irony.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,712
3,517
126
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Sorry. You're right. It takes far more intellect to copy and paste a list of traits than to even come up with them on your own. But, hey, you got the reaction you wanted...all the copy-paste libbies jumped on the thread to go "Yeeha".
--------------------------
Yes, I know, it's my insecurity. I get so scared when people disagree with me. All the agreement makes me happy though and I don't get all worked up where I need to insult somebody like you. Not that I can't though because in addition to reveling in the Yeeha, I also enjoy the moronic posts like yours.
Sure it's the insecurity, but you also get quite a jolt out of antagonizing any non raging liberals on these boards. Either way you soak it up so much it's a wonder you don't have 10,000+ posts yet.
I can't help it, Hero, I'm just a really bad dude. I guess watching people of character character assassinate liberals just kinda got on my nerves. And besides I'm absolutely right about everything I say being as how it comes straight from God. I can understand very well, unimaginably well in fact, what a pain in the ass I can be. I guess about you're only hope is figuring out why I bother you, particularly. You can always try decommissioning your buttons so they don't get pushed every time I walk by.


 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
People really need to stop using the term neo-con for this subject. These people you refer to are NOT neo-cons.

Neo-cons are liberals turned conservative.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,278
0
76
moonbeam - You can also stop trolling. I'm afraid that you've become addicted to it and you're doing it for the pure pleasure of getting the reaction, not for a cause you believe in. Or maybe you just feel so superior that you like to knick the ant hill and watch the puny little ants scurry around. If half the posts you make about yourself and your views are true (the more serious ones where you try and describe yourself), then I think you've allowed yourself to be seriously swayed away from what you believe in.

You like to say that Bush has hit his tar baby and now it is sticking to him. did you hit a tar baby posting on this forum? Are tactics you claim to dislike now sticking to you?

Or are you just an outright troll?

Michael
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
0
Originally posted by: digitalsm
People really need to stop using the term neo-con for this subject. These people you refer to are NOT neo-cons.

Neo-cons are liberals turned conservative.
No that's called growing old.


A neo-con is exactly what the nineteen points describe give or take a few.. The more check marks you can place besides each point the closer one becomes. Go ahead do it yourself with RR and Clinton. Cinton was more a Neo-con and RR was less of one.


 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
0
Originally posted by: Michael
moonbeam - You can also stop trolling. I'm afraid that you've become addicted to it and you're doing it for the pure pleasure of getting the reaction, not for a cause you believe in. Or maybe you just feel so superior that you like to knick the ant hill and watch the puny little ants scurry around. If half the posts you make about yourself and your views are true (the more serious ones where you try and describe yourself), then I think you've allowed yourself to be seriously swayed away from what you believe in.

You like to say that Bush has hit his tar baby and now it is sticking to him. did you hit a tar baby posting on this forum? Are tactics you claim to dislike now sticking to you?

Or are you just an outright troll?

Michael
Where did this come from? Makes you look trolling to me. Come out of nowhere, no comment on any subject matter, and attack?
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,137
1
0
Michael fashions himself a sort-of/psuedo forum police. With no powers to actually arrest (or do anything, really), he's on the beat, taking down those who step out of line.
 

Spudd

Golden Member
Aug 7, 2001
1,114
0
71
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Michael fashions himself a sort-of/psuedo forum police. With no powers to actually arrest (or do anything, really), he's on the beat, taking down those who step out of line.
roflmao
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Neo-cons are Pro-Big goverment, Pro-NAFTA and golbalization, and extreme war ( chicken ) hawks, and are into trying to police the world when it comes to foriegn affairs. In fact some of the biggest Neo-con's have been ex-Liberals gone full circle.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY