Are you a Hillary supporter? Why?

[Sonikku]

If you want a center left majority, or left anything at all keep dreaming. Take away Sanders and the only people left in the field are conservative lite, ultra conservative and crazy conservative.

 

[Jhhnn]

as a liberal myself, I'd rather have a center-left majority than an ideologically pure progressive minority.

Stop it. Stop making sense.

The real alternative to a center left majority is a right majority. They're currently held hostage by their own minority of radicals. To think that they can actually govern in the interests of most Americans is foolish. They failed to do so even before being taken hostage.

 

[fskimospy]

If you want a center left majority, or left anything at all keep dreaming. Take away Sanders and the only people left in the field are conservative lite, ultra conservative and crazy conservative.

How is what you're saying any different than what the Tea Party has been saying for years, just the other way around?

 

[Sonikku]

What's ironic is that the "Liberal tea party extremists" people are thinking is going to be created would basically be what passes for a run of the mill liberal party in Germany, Britain, Canada etc. Basically anywhere else in the developed world. The Tea Party is so damn conservative I'm not even sure those other countries even have a comparable variant.

 

[fskimospy]

What's ironic is that the "Liberal tea party extremists" people are thinking is going to be created would basically be what passes for a run of the mill liberal party in Germany, Britain, Canada etc. Basically anywhere else in the developed world. The Tea Party is so damn conservative I'm not even sure those other countries even have a comparable variant.

Yes, but those parties are trying to win elections in Germany, Britain, Canada, etc. We are trying to win an election in the United States.

I completely agree with you that the Democratic Party is not very liberal by world standards, it's frankly hilarious to me when conservatives try and paint the Democratic Party as somehow extreme when it's basically defined by its extreme moderation.

That being said for America, the Democratic Party is liberal. Saying anyone who is to the right of Bernie Sanders (and Clinton is not actually very far to the right of him) is a conservative is just doing the same bullshit that the Tea Party does. It's an attempt to marginalize dissenting opinions within your own party by painting them as traitors or others.

 

[Jhhnn]

What's ironic is that the "Liberal tea party extremists" people are thinking is going to be created would basically be what passes for a run of the mill liberal party in Germany, Britain, Canada etc. Basically anywhere else in the developed world. The Tea Party is so damn conservative I'm not even sure those other countries even have a comparable variant.

You'd be wrong about that.

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,2085728,00.html

They just don't have the leverage within the system that the Teahad enjoys in this country.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes, but those parties are trying to win elections in Germany, Britain, Canada, etc. We are trying to win an election in the United States.

I completely agree with you that the Democratic Party is not very liberal by world standards, it's frankly hilarious to me when conservatives try and paint the Democratic Party as somehow extreme when it's basically defined by its extreme moderation.

That being said for America, the Democratic Party is liberal. Saying anyone who is to the right of Bernie Sanders (and Clinton is not actually very far to the right of him) is a conservative is just doing the same bullshit that the Tea Party does. It's an attempt to marginalize dissenting opinions within your own party by painting them as traitors or others.

Thank you.

 

[glenn1]

What's ironic is that the "Liberal tea party extremists" people are thinking is going to be created would basically be what passes for a run of the mill liberal party in Germany, Britain, Canada etc. Basically anywhere else in the developed world. The Tea Party is so damn conservative I'm not even sure those other countries even have a comparable variant.

Their loss. If "low risk, low reward" is your ideal world then maybe the United State isn't a good fit for your needs. If you care more about your relative standard of living versus some rich person more than your actual standard of living regardless of others then likewise maybe one of those other nations is more to your liking.

 

[Sonikku]

Yes, but those parties are trying to win elections in Germany, Britain, Canada, etc. We are trying to win an election in the United States.

I completely agree with you that the Democratic Party is not very liberal by world standards, it's frankly hilarious to me when conservatives try and paint the Democratic Party as somehow extreme when it's basically defined by its extreme moderation.

That being said for America, the Democratic Party is liberal. Saying anyone who is to the right of Bernie Sanders (and Clinton is not actually very far to the right of him) is a conservative is just doing the same bullshit that the Tea Party does. It's an attempt to marginalize dissenting opinions within your own party by painting them as traitors or others.

I did not say anyone right of Sanders is a conservative, only that no one else in the running of candidates is really a liberal option. I know that Hillary has been parroting many of Bernie's lines lately, but before he came around she was all for free trade, still opposes single payer, will fight for the banks and wall st etc. She's no liberal.

You'd be wrong about that.

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,2085728,00.html

They just don't have the leverage within the system that the Teahad enjoys in this country.

If only the Tea party had a comparable amount of "leverage" in our own country.

 

[fskimospy]

I did not say anyone right of Sanders is a conservative, only that no one else in the running of candidates is really a liberal option. I know that Hillary has been parroting many of Bernie's lines lately, but before he came around she was all for free trade, still opposes single payer, will fight for the banks and wall st etc. She's no liberal.

If only the Tea party had a comparable amount of "leverage" in our own country.

Well first, opposition to free trade is not a liberal position. It's a point that tends to converge on the extreme left and extreme right. Second, Hillary doesn't oppose single payer. You do remember she was the point person for the last attempt to implement single payer, right? What she said was that she thinks it's a better idea but one that there's no way is happening right now. (Or any time soon).

She's 100% right about that by the way. If you have a plausible legislative path I would love to hear it.

 

[Mxylplyx]

I certainly dont fault progressives for supporting Sanders and what he stands for, but my belief is the one major advantage the left has over the right at this time is their penchant for pragmatism over idealism when it comes to the general election. Conservatives campaign and attempt to legislate as if a political opposition, ie Democrats, dont exist, which is why their policy achievements since Obama has been elected have been virtually non-existent. If democratic voters start demanding the same delusion from their candidates then the slow steady progress made in the face of unwavering opposition will grind to a halt. The country isn't ready for Bernie Sanders yet.

 

[FrankRamiro]

I'm no one supporter, but if i had to choose i would chose Tramp hands down,cause in all of them only Trump stands out.
It may not do any difference in the end cause all of them are most like the same,but Tramp seems to have more spank compared to the other contenders, that's why i supported first Bush,then Obama cause they seem to bring some new and convinced most people they would fight the establishment,but in the end establishment is still there after all these Presidential swaps,we are hoping at last Tramp will do it ,although i don't believe it ,although the hopes are always there, that's why people keep on voting for someone to change the Establishment.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm no one supporter, but if i had to choose i would chose Tramp hands down,cause in all of them only Trump stands out.

He sure does, like a stinkhorn in the flowerbeds.

In line image of "questionable" taste edited out. This is not OT. Use your words.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[mysticjbyrd]

I'm no one supporter, but if i had to choose i would chose Tramp hands down,cause in all of them only Trump stands out.
It may not do any difference in the end cause all of them are most like the same,but Tramp seems to have more spank compared to the other contenders, that's why i supported first Bush,then Obama cause they seem to bring some new and convinced most people they would fight the establishment,but in the end establishment is still there after all these Presidential swaps,we are hoping at last Tramp will do it ,although i don't believe it ,although the hopes are always there, that's why people keep on voting for someone to change the Establishment.

Being president isn't like voting for the last person on a reality tv show.... This isn't survivor!

 

[shady28]

I did not say anyone right of Sanders is a conservative, only that no one else in the running of candidates is really a liberal option. I know that Hillary has been parroting many of Bernie's lines lately, but before he came around she was all for free trade, still opposes single payer, will fight for the banks and wall st etc. She's no liberal.



If only the Tea party had a comparable amount of "leverage" in our own country.

Hillary and Dems in general for the past 30 years have been liberal only on a set of red herring / divisive issues. Republicans have been "conservative" on a countering set of divisive issues.

Meanwhile they both work hard to ensure the money flows to more or less the same folks.

So while we (the 95% of Americans who are peons on the economic scale) all bicker about gun rights, abortion rights, gay rights, religious rights, sexism, racism etc, the very thing that allows us to have those 1st world types of concerns has been being sold out from under us. That is to say, the wealth and jobs that make the foundation of the middle class.

We're like frogs being slowly boiled alive.

Yes Bernie Sanders is a liberal. While he will give his view on social issues and it is a liberal one, he does not like the divisive questions because he sees them for what they are. And he's right, it's like bitching about a stubbed toe when you have a compound fracture of the tibia.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Their loss. If "low risk, low reward" is your ideal world then maybe the United State isn't a good fit for your needs. If you care more about your relative standard of living versus some rich person more than your actual standard of living regardless of others then likewise maybe one of those other nations is more to your liking.

That chart looks suspicious. What criteria was used for socioeconomic status?

That 10% stat is fishy as well. Why 10%? Medicaid?

 

[BoberFett]

That chart looks suspicious. What criteria was used for socioeconomic status?

That 10% stat is fishy as well. Why 10%? Medicaid?

As much as you might hate to admit it, even the poor in the US live pretty darn well, globally speaking.

 

[stockwiz]

Hillary is a corrupt career politician. Given the choice I'd rather see Rubio in office. If the democrats would actually legalize marijuana that would give me enough incentive to vote for them but as it stands they don't so I'd rather have less of a nanny state mentality and more gun rights and I simply don't want to have to look at Hillary's face for 4 years. I'm a mixture of libertarian and socialist traits. I'd like to see the border sealed, but you can become a citizen if you can speak fluent english, that being the only requirement. I wouldn't mind national healthcare either, but you can't afford national healthcare with lots of undocumented people who don't contribute to the system getting it for free.. the larger the welfare class the less socialism works because there's too many people to support.

I also don't want to lose my gun rights. This is one area where the left is just flat wrong and run on emotions. Guns are a tool and with the proper safety courses and practice they are perfectly fine for people to be able to have to defend themselves against criminals. Get a democrat near you out to the gun range and get them to a 6 hour firearms safety course. Make them a convert. Knowledge and experience are power.

 

[fskimospy]

Hillary is a corrupt career politician. Given the choice I'd rather see Rubio in office. If the democrats would actually legalize marijuana that would give me enough incentive to vote for them but as it stands they don't so I'd rather have less of a nanny state mentality and more gun rights and I simply don't want to have to look at Hillary's face for 4 years.

Rubio has been in elected offices since he was 26. If you don't like career politicians you're looking at the wrong guy.

 

[LPCTech]

I have voted democrat my whole life.

But I cannot, and I will not cast a vote for Hillary Clinton.

She isnt a republican or a democrat.

She just does whatever she gets paid the most to do....like most politicians.

But to an extreme where she has no real opinions. Just what she thinks will get her elected crossed with who pays her the most.

This election might not be the lesser of 2 evils, it might be just picking which evil you like better...

You can burn to death or freeze to death, ya know? lol

 

[LPCTech]

Hillary is a corrupt career politician. Given the choice I'd rather see Rubio in office. If the democrats would actually legalize marijuana that would give me enough incentive to vote for them but as it stands they don't so I'd rather have less of a nanny state mentality and more gun rights and I simply don't want to have to look at Hillary's face for 4 years. I'm a mixture of libertarian and socialist traits. I'd like to see the border sealed, but you can become a citizen if you can speak fluent english, that being the only requirement. I wouldn't mind national healthcare either, but you can't afford national healthcare with lots of undocumented people who don't contribute to the system getting it for free.. the larger the welfare class the less socialism works because there's too many people to support.

I also don't want to lose my gun rights. This is one area where the left is just flat wrong and run on emotions. Guns are a tool and with the proper safety courses and practice they are perfectly fine for people to be able to have to defend themselves against criminals. Get a democrat near you out to the gun range and get them to a 6 hour firearms safety course. Make them a convert. Knowledge and experience are power.

I kinda sorta agree with you, its just that the NRA opposes ANY gun regulation of any kind. Im 100% for the right to own a gun, but only if you deserve to own a gun. Not crazy, not a felon, not a freakin rocket launcher, but within reason, a normal, sane, law abiding well adjusted person should have the right to defend themselves. The problem has always been guns in the hands of the WRONG people, and Neither party wants to address that, the republicans want to hand out guns to every-freakin-one and let them bring it anywhere, while the dems just want guns to be banned outright. And neither is the right approach.
And legalizing marijuana would be good for this country whether you smoke it or not. SO MUCH tax revenue...


The real real problem is that we have no real politicians anymore.

Just corporate spokesmen. :\

 

[senseamp]

I have voted democrat my whole life.

But I cannot, and I will not cast a vote for Hillary Clinton.

She isnt a republican or a democrat.

She just does whatever she gets paid the most to do....like most politicians.

But to an extreme where she has no real opinions. Just what she thinks will get her elected crossed with who pays her the most.

This election might not be the lesser of 2 evils, it might be just picking which evil you like better...

You can burn to death or freeze to death, ya know? lol

She is a mainstream Democrat in her positions. Not sure where you get she is neither Democrat or Republican.