Are the rich really that heartless?

[lokiju]

The study linked in this thread used 90k income as the definition of rich.

That's "rich" now days?

I thought that was doing OK but not great?

At least in the region I live in.

 

[Leros]

I don't understand the hate on athlete pay. Professional sports brings in a ton of money. If its not going to the athletes, its just going to go executives. Why not give some money to the athletes?

 

[Leros]

That's "rich" now days?

I thought that was doing OK but not great?

At least in the region I live in.

90k is middle class... You'd be living a decent life, but you're still middle class.

 

[spidey07]

That's "rich" now days?

I thought that was doing OK but not great?

At least in the region I live in.

The class warfare believers keeps lowering the number. When in reality, to them rich = anybody that makes more than them.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Why do few people ever mention the excessive salaries of athletes or movie stars?

Because athletes and movie stars entertain us. They add to the quality of life for all of us. CEO's are usually sweaty bald men that would rape your mother if they could get a nickel out of it.

 

[lokiju]

It would be so funny if the same corporate knobs you slob decide to ship your job to India one day. It's all about the money, right?

That argument doesn't even make sense.

If my job was eliminated, I'd find another one.

I would do any and everything it'd take to provide for myself and my family while always striving to do better for them and myself.

I work my ass off, I don't expect a single thing to be handed to me.

I've been laid off.

I've been without a job for nearly a year.

I know what it's like to have a hard time with money and racking up debts.

None of that is an excuse or reason to stop me from trying and busting my ass.

What was even your point with that statement?

 

[Fear No Evil]

Because athletes and movie stars entertain us. They add to the quality of life for all of us. CEO's are usually sweaty bald men that would rape your mother if they could get a nickel out of it.

I'm not sure using the rape analogy works when discussing athletes.. might want to re-think that one.

So who pays you money so you can go see these athletes which entertain you? How do you pay for the beer while you are there? And the crackerjack? Do the athletes pay you to come watch?

 

[TheNinja]

There are only so many people in the world who can do what top athletes do. There is only one LeBron James....only a handful of guys like Brady, Manning, A.Rogers, etc. Supply and demand. There are a much larger number of semi-intelligent, family neglecting, screw over employees for a buck, jerks who can be CEOs.

Oh and for the record, my current CEO is a really good guy who actually cares about more than bottom line $$$. So there are good guys out there for sure.

 

[Lotheron]

What really gets me is that these rich people work and make ("too much") money for companies that create direct and indirect jobs.

Remember when Chrysler/GM possibly could have went out of business and they were propped up because of all the direct and indirect jobs would have been lost.

Imagine if Coke went out of business how many people would be out of jobs. The bottlers, the truckers, the plastic manufactures, the aluminum manufacturers, the advertisers, ETC.

The reason all those jobs exists and these companies make money (and their shareholders) money is because more often than not they have a competent leader that is making the right decisions to ensure all those jobs are safe. I think they they deserve whatever it is they are willing to be paid, because, while you think they might make "too much" in your eyes, their decisions provide jobs for people that I'm quite sure are happy to have them right now.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

That argument doesn't even make sense.

If my job was eliminated, I'd find another one.

I would do any and everything it'd take to provide for myself and my family while always striving to do better for them and myself.

I work my ass off, I don't expect a single thing to be handed to me.

I've been laid off.

I've been without a job for nearly a year.

I know what it's like to have a hard time with money and racking up debts.

None of that is an excuse or reason to stop me from trying and busting my ass.

What was even your point with that statement?

So you sucked the govt tit for a year and you're gonna tell me about working hard? Lol. How bout paying me back some of my tax dollars since I supported you for a year.

 

[Lotheron]

There are only so many people in the world who can do what top athletes do. There is only one LeBron James....only a handful of guys like Brady, Manning, A.Rogers, etc. Supply and demand. There are a much larger number of semi-intelligent, family neglecting, screw over employees for a buck, jerks who can be CEOs.

There is only one LeBron James, just like there is only one richest businessman in the world.

There are plenty of basketball players that require certain skills just like their are plenty of other businessman that require their certain skills.

Both of these require more skill than the normal people have. That's why we call them the .0000001% of rich.

People that don't have these skills and get envious think they deserve to tell someone how much money they can make.

What right does anyone have to tell someone how successful they can or cannot be?

 

[lokiju]

So you sucked the govt tit for a year and you're gonna tell me about working hard? Lol. How bout paying me back some of my tax dollars since I supported you for a year.

Wow, you're one of the hardest trolling members I've encountered to date.

FYI, I pay my taxes as well.

I was not on unemployment for that year stretch.

Good try though.

 

[Arkaign]

That argument doesn't even make sense.

If my job was eliminated, I'd find another one.

I would do any and everything it'd take to provide for myself and my family while always striving to do better for them and myself.

I work my ass off, I don't expect a single thing to be handed to me.

I've been laid off.

I've been without a job for nearly a year.

I know what it's like to have a hard time with money and racking up debts.

None of that is an excuse or reason to stop me from trying and busting my ass.

What was even your point with that statement?

There is a lot of logic to this. We are ultimately responsible for our own fates in a country with as much opportunity as this.

On the flip side, I do understand the backlash against the corporate culture at large in the USA.

Fundamentally, you see it a lot more in publically traded companies than in private holdings, and it's because of the huge incentive to work only towards exploiting stock values at the expense of everything else. It's not a long-term vision for overall success and health, it's always next week, next quarter. Outsourcing and moving personnel out of the country is one example that's kind of infamous.

You're not going to change human nature, it's a dog eat dog world. It so happens that in a fundamentally 'free' system such as the US that an eventuality is that a small cabal of people will eventually destroy it all for their own immediate gain at the expense of others. It crosses all political lines as well. How often do you see Republicans spending huge money or lowering taxes further for the wealthy, when it's obviously unsustainable over the long term? Same for the Democrats, it defies logic to spend more than you make, but because it's vastly unpopular in the short term to cut back on spending, they kick the can down the line so they can try to keep their seats. At the end of the day 99.9% of politicians don't give half a shit about anyone, they just like that PAC money, the easy work schedule, and they laugh all the way to the bank with each other while chilling at the same restaurants laughing at the stupid peasants.

This is an accumulative decline that is irreversible. All we can do is continue to try to climb our individual ways forward, upward if possible, while it all sinks into oblivion. Everything ends. The USSR was the last giant power to fail. It's our turn next. It will be interesting to see what comes next.

 

[Lotheron]

Wow, you're one of the hardest trolling members I've encountered to date.

FYI, I pay my taxes as well.

I was not on unemployment for that year stretch.

Good try though.

I love it how everyone who pays taxes contributes to the unemployment fund, but the moment they need to collect they are leeching.

He paid into it, he can collect. That's why it's called unemployment insurance.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Wow, you're one of the hardest trolling members I've encountered to date.

Wow thanks for the compliment. I might use that as my sig.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I love it how everyone who pays taxes contributes to the unemployment fund, but the moment they need to collect they are leeching.

He paid into it, he can collect. That's why it's called unemployment insurance.

That was originally intended and funded for like 16 weeks? Its now been extended to 99 with the 'insurance' part you paid for being picked up by the feds.

 

[geecee]

The image of CEOs as villains who seek only to increase their own paychecks is mostly an unfair one. Populist pandering aside, not all CEOs are wired this way, probably not even a majority. However, when you see news/payouts like the below (see links), it can't help but inflame the average person's sentiments:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704474804576222642969830886.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/1645111...t/home-depot-ceo-nardelli-quits/#.TkVWr2EYHqA
http://www.economist.com/node/16685706?story_id=16685706

How is it that a CEO/management that has run a company into the ground still deserves to get bonuses? How is it that an executive as crappy and self-serving as Nardelli continues to get work? I have no problem with CEOs that are well-compensated for doing a good job, but shouldn't their compensation be tied to their performance, just like everyone else?

Incidentally, I recall an article a while back about how the US corporations had completely skewed CEO compensation numbers, as compared to other internationally based companies. It was an article comparing then BP CEO Tony Hayward's compensation as head of one of the world's largest oil companies (but not US based) against the compensation of CEOs of several midsize US oil companies, and the US executives were making like 10X or more what Hayward was making. I can't seem to locate the article, but it really did graphically illustrate how different US CEO compensation was in comparison to the rest of the world, at least for the oil industry.

 

[Beev]

Fundamentally, you see it a lot more in publically traded companies than in private holdings, and it's because of the huge incentive to work only towards exploiting stock values at the expense of everything else. It's not a long-term vision for overall success and health, it's always next week, next quarter.

This is my biggest problem, not just with corporations, but globally. Hardly anyone cares about advancing humans as a whole, it's just about making it look like they did a good job as an exec. They make shitty decision after shitty decision that is terrible in the long run, but produces immediate profits. It's sickening.

 

[spidey07]

This is my biggest problem, not just with corporations, but globally. Hardly anyone cares about advancing humans as a whole, it's just about making it look like they did a good job as an exec. They make shitty decision after shitty decision that is terrible in the long run, but produces immediate profits. It's sickening.

It's not business's purpose to advance humans. The business of business is to make money. The business of business is to make money. The business of business is to make money.

There, now you understand. If they keep making shitty business decisions then they will go out of business, it really is that simple.

 

[Beev]

It's not business's purpose to advance humans. The business of business is to make money. The business of business is to make money. The business of business is to make money.

There, now you understand. If they keep making shitty business decisions then they will go out of business, it really is that simple.

Humanity as a whole should be focused on advancing. Instead we're shutting down space programs and opening up fast food places everywhere. No one gives a fuck and it's infuriating to me. It's honestly worst in the US. Fuck this country.

Car/airline manufacturers are businesses, but they should be working on better technology so we can have better electric cars, flying cars, whatever. Instead they advance whatever will make them the most money.

Computer companies, same thing applied to computer tech.

Medical companies? *scoff*

Of course businesses want to make money. The problem is that's ALL they want to do, and that's wrong. No one should have a single purpose to just make money. Those people are useless and don't deserve to exist.

 

[MagickMan]

The study linked in this thread used 90k income as the definition of rich.

90K is far from "rich", in some places it's barely even middle class.

 

[MagickMan]

So you sucked the govt tit for a year and you're gonna tell me about working hard? Lol. How bout paying me back some of my tax dollars since I supported you for a year.

You know that unemployment is an insurance we pay into and not some type of welfare, right?

 

[gophins72]

Of course businesses want to make money. The problem is that's ALL they want to do, and that's wrong. No one should have a single purpose to just make money. Those people are useless and don't deserve to exist.

i suppose it depends on where you view the burden of the public welfare lies (this also determines which political bent you partake in). ie. if you feel the burden of public welfare lies with government and allowing for more cut throat businesses (making for bigger government), balancing out the interests of business, or if it lies with the business (making for leaner government but making for less efficient businesses). i would presume the worst choices lie with the opposite of these, ie. inefficient business with big government (think india/china before the internet boom) and super efficient businesses with little government that could stop them (think drug cartels).

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Most folks know that our prison systems train cons to be better criminals. Few people understand the corporate criminal culture that pervades American business.

In order to become an executive in an corporation (good or bad depending on who's doing your PR) you have given up any morals, common sense, personal vision or, empathy. In order to get to a level where "you can make a difference," you will have 20 or 30 years of practicing all the things you hate.

Why is that? That's because regardless of the products or services your corporation creates/provides, the over riding structure of a corporation defines how you do business. That method of doing business is defined as "gaming the system." A concept most here are familiar with.

The idea of me first and the hell with the rest is an old one but, the idea that world wide businesses employing hundreds of thousands should emulate that idea came to fruition within the last fifty years. Oh, there have been corporations acting poorly long before that but, never on such a scale as we have today.

Basically, a corporation today views the laws, rules of the SEC, environmental issues, local economies etc. as a gaming environment in which ANY behavior that results in winning ie. not just making money but making more money than anyone else, is the "why" they are in business. Putting competing businesses out of business is an added "achievement."

The sickening part to me is not that the evil of corporations exist but, that there are so many who champion that outlook as the latest version of the 'American dream.'

 

[geecee]

Humanity as a whole should be focused on advancing. Instead we're shutting down space programs and opening up fast food places everywhere. No one gives a fuck and it's infuriating to me. It's honestly worst in the US. Fuck this country.

Car/airline manufacturers are businesses, but they should be working on better technology so we can have better electric cars, flying cars, whatever. Instead they advance whatever will make them the most money.

Computer companies, same thing applied to computer tech.

Medical companies? *scoff*

Of course businesses want to make money. The problem is that's ALL they want to do, and that's wrong. No one should have a single purpose to just make money. Those people are useless and don't deserve to exist.

While I disagree with the anti-US sentiment of your rant, I have to agree with much of what you have said otherwise. Progress often seems to be held back by the single-minded pursuit of wealth. Pharmaceutical companies are an example of this - R&D is stifled for things that are not considered significantly profitable. Hell, even television is affected by this - scripted shows being phased out in favor of reality programming because it increases profitability due to reduced costs.

EDIT: BTW, OP the rich and CEOs (or corporate management) is not at all synonymous. There are plenty of CEOs/management who aren't rich and plenty of rich who aren't CEOs/management.