Are Richland desktops pre-ready?

[Exophase]

If Richland does even what it claims, those chips are totally worthless (including the Nvidia ones, before anyone accuses me of bias).

I think for a discrete GPU to be worthless it'd have to be worse than the worst IGP in the best CPU. Which currently would be the IGP you get in CPUs like FX series and SB-E, which would be no IGP..

 

[SiliconWars]

One less component is one less component to break or be DoA. Damaged parts are the true bane of the OEM's and they would be very happy to go without a dGPU, a component that is highly susceptible to breaking during transit or otherwise.

They are waiting on intels integrated igp being good enough before adopting this as standard on their entry level models. It probably never will be though because intel doesn't get punished for having low quality igp's on their low end parts, except from Apple who they make custom chips for in order to get around it. :|

 

[Exophase]

So big OEMs are not selling Intel systems w/o discrete GPUs??

 

[SiliconWars]

What I meant was they aren't selling Intel systems w/o pci-e slots.

 

[Abwx]

Lol....

 

[SiliconWars]

Sorry let me clarify. I thought this was the topic of conversation,

I'm kind of surprised companies like Dell have not flocked to APUs: Just fast enough to run games but not only do they save money not having to include a dGPU they don't even have to include a PCIe slot. Then when the customer wants to upgrade because the APU isn't fast enough to run new games they have to throw out the whole thing and go back to Dell for a new disposable computer.

What I mean is that intel systems are not even good enough to run newer games acceptably at low settings, there is no way an OEM could get away with trying to pass off an intel i3 system as a "gaming" pc. They could do it for AMD only but why do that when AMD sales are probably less than 10% of their revenue?

Intel sets the standard no matter how bad their standards are. Simple fact of the PC market.

 

[nenforcer]

Obviously none of AMD or nVidia's lowest end IGP's were faster than their entry level discrete GPU's of the time, because they don't want to cannabalize their discrete GPU sales. The discrete GPU's pick up where the IGP's left off.

If this new Intel HD 4600 now approaches the speed of the GT610 or Radeon HD 6450 then you will see nVidia and AMD just raise the minimum bar for their entry level discrete GPU's.

But this is good for all PC gamers since developers can now target a higher lowest common denominator and not a nearly unplayable GT 610 with regular DDR3 memory.

 

[Phynaz]

What I meant was they aren't selling Intel systems w/o pci-e slots.

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/all-in-one-desktops/product-compare

Dell sells several.

 

[SiliconWars]

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/all-in-one-desktops/product-compare

Dell sells several.

Yes but not as gaming or even "gaming ready" PC's.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Sorry let me clarify. I thought this was the topic of conversation,



What I mean is that intel systems are not even good enough to run newer games acceptably at low settings, there is no way an OEM could get away with trying to pass off an intel i3 system as a "gaming" pc. They could do it for AMD only but why do that when AMD sales are probably less than 10% of their revenue?

Intel sets the standard no matter how bad their standards are. Simple fact of the PC market.

Not to mention that when they tried to play a graphically intense game on the AMD "gaming" computer at 1080p they would find the igp inadequate as well, with no upgrade path because the PCI-E slot has been omitted. Plus if the next generation of consoles is as great as everyone claims based on the hype, or even close to it, it will reqiure much more graphical power than is possible in an igp to come close to console level.

 

[Phynaz]

Yes but not as gaming or even "gaming ready" PC's.

There's no such thing as a gaming all-in-one.

 

[SiliconWars]

There's no such thing as a gaming all-in-one.

Yes because intel's igp isn't good enough to market it as one. If it was, there would be.

 

[Torn Mind]

Even i7 rigs like the XPS 8500 come with mediocre graphics cards. OEMs just want to save a buck and use marketing to sell their units.

 

[SiliconWars]

Not to mention that when they tried to play a graphically intense game on the AMD "gaming" computer at 1080p they would find the igp inadequate as well, with no upgrade path because the PCI-E slot has been omitted. Plus if the next generation of consoles is as great as everyone claims based on the hype, or even close to it, it will reqiure much more graphical power than is possible in an igp to come close to console level.

If anybody expects to game brilliantly at 1080p at low cost then they were looking for more than they were ever going to get. There's a reason why people still buy PC's for $5000 after all.

With that said, Richland-level APU's will game at 1080p - it won't be great but probably passable at lower settings. The intel IGP isn't passable at 1080p any settings, in any game - it fails at 720p in too many games as well.

If intel had a truly competitive low end IGP then OEM's could reasonably sell cheap "gaming" systems with cost cutting mobo's sans PCI-E. I don't understand why intel doesn't already - all they are doing is selling more Nvidia and AMD gpu's with each i3 aren't they?

 

[AnandThenMan]

Even i7 rigs like the XPS 8500 come with mediocre graphics cards.

Yep, see it all the time and it's ridiculous. A high end CPU with a low-ish end graphics card is very common, what a waste.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yep, see it all the time and it's ridiculous. A high end CPU with a low-ish end graphics card is very common, what a waste.

This is true. In fact, many OEM systems come with low end discrete gpus that are barely more powerful than even the intel igp.

My contention though is that it would be very shaky marketing to sell any desktop without at least a HD7770 level discrete gpu as a "gaming" computer in the sense that most people think of a gaming computer. Any APU currently available is very limited as a gaming computer.

 

[Exophase]

Yep, see it all the time and it's ridiculous. A high end CPU with a low-ish end graphics card is very common, what a waste.

Not everyone is a serious PC gamer. And PC gaming is not the only task that needs a lot of CPU (in fact is not even one of the more representative ones). Even within gaming there's stuff like PS2 and Wii emulation that, while needing some level of GPU power, has a very different ratio of CPU to GPU requirements than any native games.

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.walmart.com/ip/17811825?w...ype=10&veh=aff

Your friendly neighborhood Wal-Mart special $500 gaming PC. Complete with... wait for it... a whole GeForce GT610!

 

[NTMBK]

Assuming that this is right, it really doesn't sit well with me.

The same product shouldn't go from the 50 suffix to a 70 while also passing from the 6th gen family prefix to the 8th. At least not with the "4" remaining the same.

6450->8370, ok.
6450->8430, sure.
6450->8450, maybe.
but 6450 to 8470? either I'm missing something or AMD is changing up their numbering scheme or this is just needless complication.

I may well be wrong- I'm basing my information off Wikipedia, and we all know how reliable that is.

 

[frozentundra123456]

If anybody expects to game brilliantly at 1080p at low cost then they were looking for more than they were ever going to get. There's a reason why people still buy PC's for $5000 after all.

With that said, Richland-level APU's will game at 1080p - it won't be great but probably passable at lower settings. The intel IGP isn't passable at 1080p any settings, in any game - it fails at 720p in too many games as well.

If intel had a truly competitive low end IGP then OEM's could reasonably sell cheap "gaming" systems with cost cutting mobo's sans PCI-E. I don't understand why intel doesn't already - all they are doing is selling more Nvidia and AMD gpu's with each i3 aren't they?

A gaming system without a pcie slot is a joke. Any off the shelf system with a pcie slot could have a 7750 added and perform far better. Imagine how infuriated customers would be when they became unsatisfied with the igp and found they could not upgrade.

 

[Phynaz]

Yes because intel's igp isn't good enough to market it as one. If it was, there would be.

Neither is AMD's, if it was, there would be.

 

[inf64]

Neither is AMD's, if it was, there would be.

Soon. Kaveri will bring discrete mid range capability to IGP space . With HSA capability too.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Soon. Kaveri will bring discrete mid range capability to IGP space . With HSA capability too.

Wake me up when an IGP on a desktop can consistently match at least a HD7750.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I think for a discrete GPU to be worthless it'd have to be worse than the worst IGP in the best CPU. Which currently would be the IGP you get in CPUs like FX series and SB-E, which would be no IGP..

I meant the super low end DDR3 chips will be essentially worthless compared to the iGPU in Trinity.

Also, inf64, what do you think is midrange graphics? (In terms of AMD graphics, 77XX, 78XX, or 79XX?)

 

[frozentundra123456]

Soon. Kaveri will bring discrete mid range capability to IGP space . With HSA capability too.

Seems like we hear this about every generation of APU--this one will be the one that meets mid level discrete card range. So far, it hasnt come close to happening.

Kaveri should be a big improvement, but with 512 sp it would be expected to reach only 7750 levels of performance, assuming they eliminate all memory bandwidth and thermal limitations. Even if they add GDDR 5 system memory and begin to adopt HSA there is no magic there that will suddenly transform it to HD7850 levels of performance, which will be midrange or low midrange by the time Kaveri debuts.