Are Richland desktops pre-ready?

[ShadowVVL]

Actually, the 8570 is "Oland", a new(ish) chip which is below the HD7750 in performance but still based on GCN. It's the same as the mobile Mars chip.

The 8470 is just a rebranded 6450 though D:

If I remember correctly all the lower discrete HD6000 series are rebadged HD5000 series parts.

If the hd8470 is a rebranded hd6450 which is a rebranded hd5450 = ouch

Edit:Never mind I was wrong

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4263/amds-radeon-hd-6450-uvd3-meets-htpc

 

[Homeles]

If I remember correctly all the lower discrete HD6000 series are rebadged HD5000 series parts.

If the hd8470 is a rebranded hd6450 which is a rebranded hd5450 = ouch

The 6450 has twice the shaders of a 5450, and is clocked higher.

http://anandtech.com/show/4263/amds-radeon-hd-6450-uvd3-meets-htpc

Still, it is an aging part. It's frustrating that the low end hasn't moved anywhere in over two years.

 

[NTMBK]

The 6450 has twice the shaders of a 5450, and is clocked higher.

http://anandtech.com/show/4263/amds-radeon-hd-6450-uvd3-meets-htpc

Still, it is an aging part. It's frustrating that the low end hasn't moved anywhere in over two years.

It has moved- into the APU.

 

[Homeles]

It has moved- into the APU.

There are still plenty of people that would benefit from low end discrete GPUs. It's great that they've got passable IGPs now, but I'd have to build a whole new system in order to get one. With a discrete GPU, I can just replace what I already have in my desktop. Low end cards make great backup cards, for use when your main card takes a dump.

 

[AtenRa]

APUs will never have dGPU performance, unless AMD will make a 200+W APU. APUs where made to elevate FPU performance first and Gaming secondly. It is only now in the beginning that people see the iGPU only for gaming. Soon the performance increases coming from the APUs will start to overcome the performance of the traditional CPUs as more and more applications will take advantage of them. That's when APUs will start becoming a real metric in the x86 world.

 

[erunion]

Soon. Kaveri will bring discrete mid range capability to IGP space . With HSA capability too.

But it won't fit in an AIO. AMDs AIOs use Brazos.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...19096 600030539&IsNodeId=1&name=All-in-One PC

Plus, its likely still 12 months away.

 

[inf64]

By mid-range I meant 7750-7770 performance level. Not 7850. The level of 7850 is possible with EX core derivative (and APU based on it).

 

[Sleepingforest]

APUs will never have dGPU performance, unless AMD will make a 200+W APU. APUs where made to elevate FPU performance first and Gaming secondly. It is only now in the beginning that people see the iGPU only for gaming. Soon the performance increases coming from the APUs will start to overcome the performance of the traditional CPUs as more and more applications will take advantage of them. That's when APUs will start becoming a real metric in the x86 world.

Hmm... what applications do you forsee using FPU calculations? I don't know of any, not because there aren't any but because I haven't looked into it.

 

[AtenRa]

Hmm... what applications do you forsee using FPU calculations? I don't know of any, not because there aren't any but because I haven't looked into it.

http://openclnews.com/apps

 

[Sleepingforest]

Thanks for the link! The only thing I recognize of those is Photoshop--how are the other applications useful in casual, everyday computing?

 

[ShintaiDK]

I sure hope there is more OpenCL apps than that list. Else its completely irrelevant. Tho that was expected. Else Cuda for example would have evolved to more than it is.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/gpu-applications.html

99.9% of everyone couldnt care less in their daily lives about Cuda or OpenCL.

 

[Abwx]

Thanks for the link! The only thing I recognize of those is Photoshop--how are the other applications useful in casual, everyday computing?

From the same link ;

Handbrake Video transcoding using OpenCL for video scaling, color space conversion, and lookahead function of the x264 encoding

LuxrenderGPU Introduces OpenCL support into the Luxrender physically-based photorealistic rendering engine

MAGIX Movie Edit Pro MX Plus Video editing, special effects and export for AVCHD accelerated by OpenCL

Mathematica 8 A range of Mathematica 8 OpenCL GPU-enhanced functions are built-in for areas such as linear algebra, image processing, financial simulation, and Fourier transforms.

VLC media player Open-source based media players using OpenCL for stabilization and de-noising

WinZip By using OpenCL, WinZip is able to deliver dramatically faster compression speeds, processing multiple files in parallel

 

[Arkadrel]

I sure hope there is more OpenCL apps than that list. Else its completely irrelevant.

About a year or so ago I think, I tried to make a list of programs that used OpenCL, via just googleing.
Im sure by now theres alot more programs that make use of OpenCL.

This is what I ended up with (havnt added to it in a longtime):

AlgoryX Agx Physicis Simulation

Abaqus FEA (mainly is used in the automotive, aerospace, and industrial products industries. The product is popular with academic and research institutions)

Adobe Photoshop CS6

Adobe Flash

ArcSoft Panorama Maker Pro 5 or 6 (Stitch photos and videos into 3D panoramas)

ArcSift ShowBiz 5.0.1

Autodesk Maya - Physics Plug-in

Blackmagic-design's DaVinci Resolve

Brown Deer's N-Body Simulations (motion of Particles subject to a force due to particle-particle interations between all particles in the system)

Brown Deer's Finite-Difference Time-Domain Solvers for Modeling Velocity-Stress Wave Propagation

Bullet Physics 2.80 (engine for Game Physics Simulation)

Corel VideoStudio Pro X4 (HD video-editing software with DVD and Blu-ray authoring using OpenCL for rendering)

Cryptohaze (OpenCL accelerated password auditing tools for security professionals)

CyberLink PowerDirector 9+ (Video Editor)

CyberLink PowerProducer 5.5+ (Create Compelling Video and Slideshow)

CyberLink MediaEspresso 6.5+ ( Ultra Fast Universal Media Converter)

Darktable (Virtual lighttable and darkroom for photographers with OpenCL acceleration on the GPU)

Dolphin (Nintendo Wii/GC Emulator)

EDEM (element modeling for particle flow simulation of bulk material handling)

Elcomsoft Phone Password Breaker

Elcomsoft Wireless Security Auditor

Fusion by EyesON (an image compositing software program)

Final Cut Pro X (Uses OpenCL for accelerated rendering)

Geoweb3d (Advancing geospatial visualization and analysis)

GIMP (2.8rc1+) (Photo editing and image manipulation)

Handbrake (Video transcoding for video scaling, color space conversion, and lookahead function)

HydrogenAudio's FLACCL v0.2+ (lossless Audio Compression)

Ikena ISR (Real-time enhancement for full motion video via OpenCL)

ImageMagick (Software suite to create, edit, compose, or convert bitmap images)

Indigo Renderer (photorealistic renderer which simulates the physics of light to achieve near-perfect image realism)

LAMMPS Molecular Dynamics Simulations

MAGIX Movie Edit Pro MX Plus (Video editing, special effects and export for AVCHD)

MainConcept’s OpenCL™ H.264/AVC Encoder (Video encoder)

Mathwork's MATLAB (programming environment for algorithm development, data analysis, visualization, and numerical computation)

Movie Gate 3.11+

Movie Studio HD 11 (Video creation, editing and publishing)

MotionDSP vReveal (Photo/video analysis to fix video shake, poor lighting, or incorrect color using OpenCL acceleration)

MSC Nastran (Finite Element Analysis (FEA) solver for simulating stress, dynamics, or vibration of real-world, complex systems)

MuseMage (photo editing software)

OPTIS's THEIA RT

Phaseone Capture One 6.0 (Image Software)

Phone Password Breaker (Forensic access to encrypted information stored in popular smartphones)

PhotoMonkee (Image editing with OpenCL-accelerated filters)

PowerDirector (HD video editing software using OpenCL)

PowerToy Particle & Fluid Simulations Application

ratGPU (Ray Tracing Renderer)

ReconstructMe (3D scanning app reconstructs mesh in realtime from Kinect/Xtion depth image)

RLIPS (R Linear Inverse Problem Solver) (R package for solving large overdetermined (stochastic) linear inverse problems with rotations made in parallel)

StagePresence (snips a person’s image out of any background as a virtual “green screen” )

Sony Vega's Pro 10 & 11

Sony Movie Studio HD 11

THEIA RT (True physically correct real-time rendering and interaction)

TotalMedia Theatre 5 (OpenCL-accelerated all-in-one media player for videos, Blu-ray, DVDs, and AVCHD)

Triton Ocean SDK (lets developers add open-ocean and shallow water effects to their virtual environments)

Unified Color The HDR Expose 2 (Photo editor / enhancer)

Vantage Transcode (uses OpenCL to accelerate video processing and H.264 encoding, with more sophisticated algorithms for scaling and deinterlacing and full 16-bit 4:4:4:4 processing)

Vegas Pro 11 (Integrated content creation environment for video and broadcast professionals for video processing, playback and rendering.)

Viewdle (OpenCL optimized facial recognition software)

VLC media player (Open-source based media players using OpenCL for stabilization and de-noising)

WinZip (16.5+) (By using OpenCL, WinZip is able to deliver dramatically faster compression speeds, processing multiple files in parallel)

Wireless Security Auditor (Uses OpenCL to try recover WPA/WPA2-PSK text passwords in order to test the security of wireless networks)

Wolfram Mathematica 8 (for areas such as linear algebra, image processing, financial simulation, and Fourier transforms)

 

[CHADBOGA]

By mid-range I meant 7750-7770 performance level. Not 7850. The level of 7850 is possible with EX core derivative (and APU based on it).

I see your laughable boosting of AMD has literally no bounds.

Can't wait till Kaveri is launched so we can all see how on this you will be even more off the mark than you were when you went around for a year or so predicting that Bulldozer would be the world's fastest desktop processor(based on some French site's benchmarks). D:

 

[SiliconWars]

I see your laughable boosting of AMD has literally no bounds.

Can't wait till Kaveri is launched so we can all see how on this you will be even more off the mark than you were when you went around for a year or so predicting that Bulldozer would be the world's fastest desktop processor(based on some French site's benchmarks). D:

Why is that laughable? Instead of your trolling aggravating people, why don't you tell us why it's laughable?

 

[Homeles]

Why is that laughable? Instead of your trolling aggravating people, why don't you tell us why it's laughable?

I'd imagine it's because he's been tooting AMD's horn quite loudly as of late.

 

[SiliconWars]

I'd imagine it's because he's been tooting AMD's horn quite loudly as of late.

There isn't any reason to believe Kaveri won't be near 7750 level performance, and there isn't much reason to believe that the Excavator APU won't be near 7850 level performance.

Let us hear the arguments against either happening - real arguments not "trololol its AMD they fail" that some people use every time.

 

[Idontcare]

I see your laughable boosting of AMD has literally no bounds.

CHADBOGA, please cool it, posting like this to intentionally generate friction between yourself and your fellow forum colleagues is simply not productive. Being counter-productive is a waste of your time as well as everyone else's who have to wade through it whilst drilling down through the thread.

The rhetoric and hyperbole really needs to stop. We can do this the easy way or the hard way. Easy way involves self-discipline (i.e. mature adult self-restraint), hard way will involve discipline (i.e. parental rearing of immature children still on a personal growth to adulthood).

My preference is that we be adults and self-discipline enters into the equation a little more often going forward versus what has been happening in these forums of late.

You know how this works, we leave the choice up to you, you show us which path you have chosen by way of your future actions, and we go from there.

Please choose wisely.

 

[Homeles]

There isn't much reason to believe that the Excavator APU won't be near 7850 level performance.

There certainly is. Do we know for certain that Kaveri's successor will move to a new node? There's been no roadmap; AMD's been awfully quiet, and GloFo has not been instilling much confidence in many people.

Let us hear the arguments against either happening - real arguments not "trololol its AMD they fail" that some people use every time.

There are some pretty reasonable arguments out there. I know you've read them. Making a straw man to try to win your point is counterproductive.

 

[inf64]

I'd imagine it's because he's been tooting AMD's horn quite loudly as of late.

I'd imagine you have no clue what Kaveri is? 512SPs with GDDR5 support. Why it wouldn't be on the level of 7750?

 

[Greenlepricon]

There certainly is. Do we know for certain that Kaveri's successor will move to a new node? There's been no roadmap; AMD's been awfully quiet, and GloFo has not been instilling much confidence in many people.

There are some pretty reasonable arguments out there. I know you've read them. Making a straw man to try to win your point is counterproductive.

I agree with you. If AMD had a different foundry, or there was evidence that they were finally doing there job right it might be a little more believable.

Regardless, AMD has been making substantial progress on their APU's as of late. If they could fully integrate capable gpu's with the cpu, then I would love to see how the two could interact together. Who knows. In a couple of years they might just have a winner. Their cpu tech is running a little behind, but if I could buy an all-in-one package that could seamlessly work together, it might overcome the processors shortcomings.

 

[Enigmoid]

There isn't any reason to believe Kaveri won't be near 7750 level performance, and there isn't much reason to believe that the Excavator APU won't be near 7850 level performance.

Let us hear the arguments against either happening - real arguments not "trololol its AMD they fail" that some people use every time.

The fact that its tdp is substantially over 100 Watts would seem to put the 7850 well out of excavator reach. You are going to need a new process node to even think of getting a 7850 in acceptable thermal envelopes (the igp part less than 50 watts). I also find it hard to believe that AMD could somehow double igp performance two years in a row (especially given the fact that the igp is quite good and the fact that the igp using their newest gpu tech launches generally a year+ after they launch the gpus--llano with VLIW5 and trinity and richland with VLIW4. Kaveri with gcn will launch over a year and a half after the 7970 was shipped, probably more too). I find it hard to believe that AMD would launch such a part, essentially cannibalizing their entire lower end lineup

 

[frozentundra123456]

There isn't any reason to believe Kaveri won't be near 7750 level performance, and there isn't much reason to believe that the Excavator APU won't be near 7850 level performance.

Let us hear the arguments against either happening - real arguments not "trololol its AMD they fail" that some people use every time.

Yes, exactly. That is the best case scenario about what happens for Kaveri. As I said, maximum possible performance based on the number of sp is equal to 7750. That is assuming no bandwidth or TDP limitations. No one really knows if GDDR5 will be available, and that still would not eliminate TDP restrictions. My personal guess is that even if it is available, it will be rare to see expensive GDDR5 paired up with a budget APU.

So it just comes down to how you define a mid-range card I guess. If you want to define the 7750 as a mid-range card so that you can claim a "mid-range" performance for an APU,(at best) no one can stop you. No one has to accept that definition either. It is however the lowest performing discrete card sold by AMD in the current generation, so I think most objective observers would hardly consider it mid-range.

As for the next APU, that is so far in the future that no one really knows what kind of performance discrete gpus will show at that time. By then 7850 could well be low end.

APU are steadily improving, but they are shooting at a moving target of ever increasingly powerful discrete cards and more graphically demanding games.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I'd imagine you have no clue what Kaveri is? 512SPs with GDDR5 support. Why it wouldn't be on the level of 7750?

SiliconWars is arguing that Kaveri will be around 7850 level performance. I'd argue:

A. It'll be really expensive if it does exist. AMD does not want to eat into it's own sales, especially since the 7xxx line is continuing through 2013.

B. It's pretty unlikely anyway. As inf64 says, the GPU-side specs resemble a 7750 more than a 7850.

 

[inf64]

SiliconWars is arguing that Kaveri will be around 7850 level performance. I'd argue:

A. It'll be really expensive if it does exist. AMD does not want to eat into it's own sales, especially since the 7xxx line is continuing through 2013.

B. It's pretty unlikely anyway. As inf64 says, the GPU-side specs resemble a 7750 more than a 7850.

Nope, SiliconWars said that Excavator based APU might get to 7850 level. Kaveri is ~7750 territory.