Are Atheists the most intolerent group of all?

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: dighn
so any Christian who does something bad is not a Christian then; how convenient.

Jesus said you would know people by their fruit, and that many would say 'Lord, Lord' and not be Christians.

Originally posted by: dighn
But please don't lump them with atheists either because they obviously still believe in something which is contradictory to atheism.

People believe a lot of things, and almost everyone believes something that contradicts his behavior. I can't fully explain how God transforms a sinful man into a righteous person, but that is part of the mystery of grace, I suppose.

But just because I don't understand everything about God, doesn't mean I can't still know him. It just means I understand my own humanity, and its inherent limitations.

Originally posted by: dighn
It really annoys me that the religious always hint at how us "godless" types are somehow morally corrupt because of it.

Well, when someone called Jesus a good teacher, he replied that no one is good, but God alone. Christians believe that God is the source of everything that is good, and evil is a perversion of those good things. So someone who lives without God will inevitably become less like God.

We are all on one of two paths: becoming more like God, or becoming more like the other thing. (That's how CS Lewis puts it.) It's a daily summation of our personal choices.

And the afterlife is simply the conclusion of those choices. Our permanent choice, fully realized.

Originally posted by: dighn
Real morality comes from within, from society, etc.

Christians believe that within everyone is not the nature for good, but quite the opposite, a nature for evil.

Paul expanded on this in the New Testament, saying how every time he wishes to do what is right, he would still do what is wrong. Whenever he wants to do what is right, evil is right there with him.

It is evident throughout our history... often times terribly evident... we are unable to solve this problem of evil within ourselves.

Originally posted by: dighn
If one needs a book and the threat of eternal suffering to refrain from hurting another, he/she is a despictable individual regardless of belief.

Eternal suffering is a reality, not a threat. It is not just a punishment, but a result of our choice to live life without God. That's what hell is... separation from God, forever.

The vast majority of people don't become Christians because they are afraid of hell. Most people become Christians because they discover that despite their best efforts, they can never undue their actions. They can never be redeemed by themselves. A great many problems in their lives are a result of their own choices.

That's why Jesus told us to spread the "good news." Well, the bad news is that we will all die in our sins, and spend eternity apart from God. BUT, the good news is that God has made a way for us, by his great sacrifice. That is the good news being preached around the world to millions of people whom the world has forgotten.

Originally posted by: dighn
I think history and current events show very clearly that the faithful can just as easily commit atrocities, often with terrifying devotion and perceived righteousness.

Religion is a man-made illusion that by our own efforts we can appease God. But what God has done through Jesus is not a religion, it is a reality.

Why is religion so prevalent? Do you think its just because people are so stupid? Or because they are "stuck in the dark ages"? Atheists have all the same problems that the religious do... they are still human.

The reason religion is so prevalent is because its the natural human response. We crave redemption, freedom from our past, our habits, our decisions, the way we live. But our attempts can never give us those things. Only God can, and the great news is that this is exactly what God has done for us all.

Originally posted by: dighn
I doubt religion would be of any hindrance to mad men.

I doubt that as well.

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: Trevelyan

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: Frackal
Being an aethiest is still a leap of faith of sorts. Claiming to believe that God does NOT exist is still a leap of faith into a realm that is not knowable.

To say "I don't know" is IMO the only truly accurate statement

Its not a leap faith for a blindingly simple reason. There is no evidence (ie: no reason) to believe that any supernatural being exists! Furthermore, there will never be evidence that one exists because it is "supernatural". Another example would be that I didn't "know" that the armageddon wasn't going to happen on 6/6/06, however I was positively certain (and justifiably so) that it was not.

To say you know for sure there is no evidence for God is to say that you have seen everything in the universe.

What you mean to say, is that you have never seen any evidence for God, at least, any evidence that you consider convincing.

God made us to know him, and he's not the one who is hiding in this world...

Yeah like the teapot see above......
If I followed your logic, belief in anything is possible....unicorns, santa clause, the easter bunny.....

Well, really, my argument is not that you should believe in things you haven't seen, but that you have the ability to know God, and you choose not to.

I think that it is fully possible for you to decide to never believe in God, and you may have many reasons for doing so. But what will those reasons mean if you meet God face to face?

My point is that it is no use trying to argue God out of existence. Nothing you or I say will ever change the fact that he created and intimately knows us all.

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: Trevelyan

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: Trevelyan

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: Frackal
Being an aethiest is still a leap of faith of sorts. Claiming to believe that God does NOT exist is still a leap of faith into a realm that is not knowable.

To say "I don't know" is IMO the only truly accurate statement

Its not a leap faith for a blindingly simple reason. There is no evidence (ie: no reason) to believe that any supernatural being exists! Furthermore, there will never be evidence that one exists because it is "supernatural". Another example would be that I didn't "know" that the armageddon wasn't going to happen on 6/6/06, however I was positively certain (and justifiably so) that it was not.

To say you know for sure there is no evidence for God is to say that you have seen everything in the universe.

What you mean to say, is that you have never seen any evidence for God, at least, any evidence that you consider convincing.

God made us to know him, and he's not the one who is hiding in this world...

Yeah like the teapot see above......
If I followed your logic, belief in anything is possible....unicorns, santa clause, the easter bunny.....

Well, really, my argument is not that you should believe in things you haven't seen, but that you have the ability to know God, and you choose not to.

I think that it is fully possible for you to decide to never believe in God, and you may have many reasons for doing so. But what will those reasons mean if you meet God face to face?

My point is that it is no use trying to argue God out of existence. Nothing you or I say will ever change the fact that he created and intimately knows us all.

Teapot....buddy teapot...

 

[dighn]

Why is religion so prevalent? Do you think its just because people are so stupid? Or because they are "stuck in the dark ages"? Atheists have all the same problems that the religious do... they are still human.

The reason religion is so prevalent is because its the natural human response. We crave redemption, freedom from our past, our habits, our decisions, the way we live. But our attempts can never give us those things. Only God can, and the great news is that this is exactly what God has done for us all.

No I understand there are basic needs in the human psyche that can be answered by religion. I feel the same needs, the need for answers and the need to believe in something greater. But religions seem so arbitrary to me. I come from a background where the predominant religions are radically different from Christianity (monotheism in general). The more I see, the less I can accept any particular religion; too many contradictory ideas that can neither be proof nor disproven. How can I choose the Christian "God" when from my perspective there are so many equally (un)likely possibilities? So I turn to science, with ideas that can be proven and results that we can all see.

 

[Steeplerot]

Humans are always looking to pass off the blame and have someone else take the fall for them, along with making little cliques to look down on one another, along with control the masses for a fews power, thus religions are born.

 

[straightalker]

All athiests are fools. Here we all are on a planet we basicly have never left the immediete area of. While outer space is comprized of by last count some 50-100 billion galaxies each with billion of stars and planets.

Anyone who tells you that life on Earth was not created by an intelligience vastly superior to our own is just not honest or they are too lazy to look at the evidence properly.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: straightalker
All athiests are fools. Here we all are on a planet we basicly have never left the immediete area of. While outer space is comprized of by last count some 50-100 billion galaxies each with billion of stars and planets.

Anyone who tells you that life on Earth was not created by an intelligience vastly superior to our own is just not honest or they are too lazy to look at the evidence properly.

So do our alien masters have 2 legs or 10? Eyestalks? Green skin?

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: straightalker
All athiests are fools. Here we all are on a planet we basicly have never left the immediete area of. While outer space is comprized of by last count some 50-100 billion galaxies each with billion of stars and planets.

Anyone who tells you that life on Earth was not created by an intelligience vastly superior to our own is just not honest or they are too lazy to look at the evidence properly.

All Christians are fools. Here we all are on a planet we basically have never left the immediete area of. While outer space is comprized of by last count some 50-100 billion galaxies each with billion of stars and planets.

Anyone who tells you that life on Earth was not created by an intelligience vastly superior to our own is just honest

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: dighn

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Looney


So if they weren't Godless men, they would not have been oppressive and brutal? Do you have NO clue of history at all?

And just because Hitler doesn't live up to your expectation of Christianity, doesn't mean he wasn't a Christian. I'm sure there are lots of 'Christians' in this world that probably think you're not a true Christian or Christian enough.

Hmm , well lets get out the 10 pound American Heritage dictionary and look up a few words and see how far flung I am.

Atheism: 1. Disbelief in or denial of the exsistance of God.
2.Godlessness

Christian:
1rofessing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on his
teachings.
2.Pertaining to or derived from Jesus or his teachings.
3.Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Christ: Christlike.
4. Pertaining to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.

Muslim:
1: A believer in or adherent.

theism:
1: Belief in the exsistance of of a God or Gods;
esp belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.

I dunno my definitions don't seem so far off. Perhaps your definitions are far too narrow?

so any Christian who does something bad is not a Christian then; how convenient. But please don't lump them with atheists either because they obviously still believe in something which is contradictory to atheism.

It really annoys me that the religious always hint at how us "godless" types are somehow morally corrupt because of it. Real morality comes from within, from society, etc. If one needs a book and the threat of eternal suffering to refrain from hurting another, he/she is a despictable individual regardless of belief. I think history and current events show very clearly that the faithful can just as easily commit atrocities, often with terrifying devotion and perceived righteousness. I doubt religion would be of any hindrance to mad men.

:thumbsup:

of course not, but neither does a person become a believer because his Grandma was a believer, or he once said something religious, or he attended a church when he was 10.
People lifes are a daily testimony of what they are or are not.
Tell you what I won't lump them with Atheists if you don't lump them with Christians
Obviously its not that black and white, which is One of the primary purposes of this thread.
There are a lot of Christ haters in this forum that like to paint with very broad brushes.

 

[straightalker]

bthorny you sound like you decided to do some trolling this weekend in this forum area.

Any success?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: daniel49

There are a lot of Christ haters in this forum that like to paint with very broad brushes.

Not christ haters, mostly people fed up with christians cramming their fairytales down everyones throats.

Live and let live already, thing is they can't nor do they want to.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: daniel49
Heres one man that seems to think so.
Text
...The story was appropriately on the Camera's "Faith" page, because their disbelief is nothing other than "faith" that no God exists, and therefore a religion of sorts.

A quick google will produce reams of Atheistic dogma against anyone who believes different then them...


Are they bloodless and more rightous then the rest of us?


Atheists such as Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, and others killed more people during the past century alone (well over 100 million) than were killed during all of the so-called "religious wars" of all previous centuries combined.

In the modern era, the only "religion" that engages in any appreciable amount of slaughter of infidels is Islam, and even the muslims have a LONG way to go before they can match up with the atheists in terms of sheer number of corpses.

Go troll Else Where....

 

[Taejin]

For some reason all the religious people seem to enjoy lumping ALL nonreligious nonbelievers as a single group of atheists.

Screw off. Just because I'm an atheist doesn't make me feel buddy buddy or share some sense of personal connection to other atheists. Atheism is totally different from religion and should not be treated as such.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: straightalker
All athiests are fools. Here we all are on a planet we basicly have never left the immediete area of. While outer space is comprized of by last count some 50-100 billion galaxies each with billion of stars and planets.

Anyone who tells you that life on Earth was not created by an intelligience vastly superior to our own is just not honest or they are too lazy to look at the evidence properly.

Why would an entity vastly more intelligent than ours want to create something as foolish and petty as us? For their/it's entertainment?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: straightalker
All athiests are fools. Here we all are on a planet we basicly have never left the immediete area of. While outer space is comprized of by last count some 50-100 billion galaxies each with billion of stars and planets.

Anyone who tells you that life on Earth was not created by an intelligience vastly superior to our own is just not honest or they are too lazy to look at the evidence properly.

Do you know what a "non sequitur" is? I ask only because your post is such a painfully perfect example of one. My head hurts from trying to figure out what contorted path took you from your premise to your conclusion.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: daniel49
[ ... ]
There are a lot of Christ haters in this forum that like to paint with very broad brushes.

Christ haters? Really? I guess I've missed that. What I see are a lot of people who (1) are disgusted with the hypocrisy of self-proclaimed Christians who are greedy, judgmental, hateful towards others, and generally acting in ways completely contrary to Christ's teachings, and/or (2) insist on shoving their faith down others' throats. From my perspective, I have no problem at all with people who quietly celebrate their faith. I don't agree with them, but I don't have to. If it works for them, that's cool. What I can't stand, however, is the self-righteous zealots who swing their perverse religious dogma as a club to attack others. That applies to both Islamic and Christian zealots.

Jesus had a wonderful message of love and tolerance and generosity. It's a pity so many of his most outspoken followers reject it.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: daniel49
Heres one man that seems to think so.
Text
...The story was appropriately on the Camera's "Faith" page, because their disbelief is nothing other than "faith" that no God exists, and therefore a religion of sorts.

A quick google will produce reams of Atheistic dogma against anyone who believes different then them...


Are they bloodless and more rightous then the rest of us?


Atheists such as Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, and others killed more people during the past century alone (well over 100 million) than were killed during all of the so-called "religious wars" of all previous centuries combined.

In the modern era, the only "religion" that engages in any appreciable amount of slaughter of infidels is Islam, and even the muslims have a LONG way to go before they can match up with the atheists in terms of sheer number of corpses.

Go troll Else Where....

your a laugh a minute. trolling in my thread and telling me to go troll elsewhere.
Has your big red nose arrived yet you lil clown?

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: daniel49
[ ... ]
There are a lot of Christ haters in this forum that like to paint with very broad brushes.

Christ haters? Really? I guess I've missed that. What I see are a lot of people who (1) are disgusted with the hypocrisy of self-proclaimed Christians who are greedy, judgmental, hateful towards others, and generally acting in ways completely contrary to Christ's teachings, and/or (2) insist on shoving their faith down others' throats. From my perspective, I have no problem at all with people who quietly celebrate their faith. I don't agree with them, but I don't have to. If it works for them, that's cool. What I can't stand, however, is the self-righteous zealots who swing their perverse religious dogma as a club to attack others. That applies to both Islamic and Christian zealots.

Jesus had a wonderful message of love and tolerance and generosity. It's a pity so many of his most outspoken followers reject it.

Really, I haven't seen any of that. Guess we both better keep our eyes open wider.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: daniel49
[ ... ]
There are a lot of Christ haters in this forum that like to paint with very broad brushes.

Christ haters? Really? I guess I've missed that. What I see are a lot of people who (1) are disgusted with the hypocrisy of self-proclaimed Christians who are greedy, judgmental, hateful towards others, and generally acting in ways completely contrary to Christ's teachings, and/or (2) insist on shoving their faith down others' throats. From my perspective, I have no problem at all with people who quietly celebrate their faith. I don't agree with them, but I don't have to. If it works for them, that's cool. What I can't stand, however, is the self-righteous zealots who swing their perverse religious dogma as a club to attack others. That applies to both Islamic and Christian zealots.

Jesus had a wonderful message of love and tolerance and generosity. It's a pity so many of his most outspoken followers reject it.

Really, I haven't seen any of that. Guess we both better keep our eyes open wider.

See, that's what I'm talking about. Christians claim to believe in honesty, yet here you are denying that you've seen any examples of (1) and (2). Given that complaints about Christian hypocrisy and about evangelicals imposing their beliefs on America are so pervasive, one can only conclude you are lying. Shameful.

 

[her209]

Christians told the Muslims to STFU when the pictures depicting Allah with a bomb in his head was printed in the newspapers. But when it came to the Da Vinci Code, they cry fowl.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: straightalker
All athiests are fools. Here we all are on a planet we basicly have never left the immediete area of. While outer space is comprized of by last count some 50-100 billion galaxies each with billion of stars and planets.

Anyone who tells you that life on Earth was not created by an intelligience vastly superior to our own is just not honest or they are too lazy to look at the evidence properly.

I'm confused as to the connection between your first paragraph and your conclusion.

 

[sumyungai]

Generally speaking, a person from a religious faith has a hard time marrying a person of a different or no faith. Yet, a person with no faith could marry anyone with no restrictions. So who is intolerant of who?

 

[Evander]

Most intolerant? No way. Most intolerated? It would seem:
MINNEAPOLIS / ST. PAUL (3/28/2006) -- American?s increasing acceptance of religious diversity doesn?t extend to those who don?t believe in a god, according to a national survey by researchers in the University of Minnesota?s department of sociology.

From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households, university researchers found that Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in ?sharing their vision of American society.? Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.

Full article in google cache:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Vt...distrusted+minority&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: straightalker
All athiests are fools. Here we all are on a planet we basicly have never left the immediete area of. While outer space is comprized of by last count some 50-100 billion galaxies each with billion of stars and planets.

Anyone who tells you that life on Earth was not created by an intelligience vastly superior to our own is just not honest or they are too lazy to look at the evidence properly.

As an atheist, if I were intolerant, I'd just call you a small minded idiot and be done with it. As an open minded and tolerant atheist, I prefer to consider that you may simply be overwhelmed by the as yet undefined limits of the possiblities regarding the origins of the universe and have accepted the rather simplistic answers provided by the mythology and dogma of your religion, and I would hope that some day, you are able to grow beyond that.

The hostility of your first sentence also suggests you have allowed the more doctrinary aspects of your religion to restrict your tolerance for those whose beliefs differ from yours. That would make you the loser in terms of the opportunities you will miss for open interactions with other interesting human beings, but that is your loss.

You are welcome to your beliefs. The only intolerance I would have for them would be at the point where you insist on imposing them on others.

 

[piasabird]

When people seeking power and justification for their deeds use religion as an excuse for what they do, they are only making an excuse. That does not mean that religion is bad or good. Most people I have met have some good in them. Religion and religious groups are not any better or worse than say the AFLCIO or some other civic goup or non-profit group. Look at Katrina and guess which groups did the most good? It was not the ACLU and it was not some do-good athiest group. What good have athiest ever done for this country?