Yes, chess9, but in a thousand years all oh monkeywrench's offwpring will have been aborted and all males will be like Xerox Man. I leave you to contemplate the merits of our fate.
Edit: Corn it takes one cell to make an egg, it takes two to make a fertilized egg, but please please see that every cell, almost every cell, has the complete genetic material to be a human clone. Every cell, almost every cell is sacred. Stop the slauter. You read but you don't comprenend.
What's your malfunction, moron? I may disagree with guys like Harvey, Chess, and I'm Typing, but I least respect their intelligence as human beings. I don't mock them in a message post without even attempting to bolster my stance on the issue. I hope that your stance is sarcasm because I can't fathom someone being as stupid as your posts would make you out to be.
Xerox Man, Actually I started out to post what I said the other way around with everybody being like monckywrench, but I realized that it would be his kids that got abouted and you'd fine a girl that wouldn't. So it's you that comes out looking better if you ask me. Anyway since I don't agree with your position on abortion, I mean since I agree soooo much more than you do, I thought I'd best leave it to chess9 to determine whether a world full of you or monchy would be preferred. Just a little humor. If you're pissed that you got compared to a guy that is advocates manipulating the emotionally malleable, join the club. Such an attitude, while funny in the thread, is terrible. chess9 should be ashamed of himself for supporting such a thing. Be careful, ladies. Pick somebody sincere like Xerox Man.
Wedesdo, I am not ALWAYS sarcastically ironic, only sometimes.
ask yourselves: would you rather live as an imperfect being or not live at all?? who are we to decide that for our unborn babies? i believe life is the most precious thing in the universe. besides, no human is perfect.
"I'm all for banning partial birth abortions except when the mother's life is in danger"
From what i know, this is a manufactured crisis. First of all that is not a medical term, just something created by politics for its scare value. 2nd of all, late term abortions are already rare, and basically the only reason a doctor will perform one is if your life is in danger or the baby is messed up somehow. So you could say it is a political tool used by some in their efforts to chip away at abortion laws. It benefits none.
What am I????????? Liberal or conservative????????????
I believe in Equal rights for all people.
I believe in Affirmative Action.
I believe in Welfare Reform.
I believe in Gun Control.
I believe in having prayer back in schools.
I believe in abortion under these circumstances. The parents must be notified for underage girls. For rape victims or molestation. I believe that partial birth abortions should be banned immediately.
I believe in the death penalty.
So whatever these beliefs make me that's what I am.
hey we have more in common than I would have thought
I believe in equal rights to unfortunately we have differing definitions of what that is.
affirmative action- Nope I think the entire concept is unfair and flawed.
Welfare Reform- I am all for it.
Gun control-nope not if it means that law abiding citizens will be prohibited from owning them.
Prayer back in schools- I think as long as it isn't mandatory I have no serious issues with it. Might be a good thing.
On abortion I am a little more rigid. the only time I can justify it is if there is a serious threat to the mothers life other than that it is still the killing of an unborn innocent. Sorry but I just can't harden my heart to harm an innocent baby.
Death penalty-I am all for that they made their bed they can sleep in it.
what do you know we agree for the most part on about half of those points. who would have guessed.
Now what does that make you? Well either you are a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative.
GL: The gist of what I was saying, though I inadvertently omitted this simplicity, is that I don't agree even with very early abortions or with that abortion pill (which, if I understand it correctly, prevents the fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall). Basically, life begins at conception. Someone mentioned the brainwave thing above.
The abortion debate is rather pointless actually. The fundamental difference is that while people like myself believe life begins at conception (or at a similar moment early on) and that such life should be held sacred and protected, the "pro-choice" crowd doesn't look at the question in terms of life, but rather in terms of external liberties. There's a disconnect in the approach to the problem, and until the outlooks cross that divide, there is no movement or understanding possible.
I can also define it as a balancing act. I would rather relinquish a portion of liberty for the sanctity of life. If the chance exists that the pro-life crowd is correct, and abortion destroys a life, then what have we lost? A child. If the reverse is true, someone loses a "choice". Child v. choice. I don't see how one can be chosen over another.
Maybe it has something to do with a strong paternal instinct. My wife and I will probably start a family in the next year or two, and I've come to realize that's what I want to do more than anything else. Most of life bores me after awhile, and I see my niece and nephew growing up now by leaps and bounds. What wonderment and joy there is in a child's eyes, and millions have died because of abortion since Roe v. Wade. It's very sad, and I do hope that some day we can look back and realize what a terrible mistake it was.
Thank you, AndrewR. It doesn't surprise me that a liberal pinko so far to the left of me on the abotion issue would find my deeply held spiritual struggle for the sanctity of celular life troubling.
I know debating this point with you is pointless. Our fundamental difference is that while people like myself believe life begins at conception and includes all the cells that multip[ly from that original living cell, and that such life should be held sacred and protected, the "pro-life" crowd doesn't look at the question in terms of life, but rather in terms of the agregate life There's a disconnect in the approach to the problem, and until the outlooks cross that divide, there is no movement or understanding possible for you. You choose to believe in an absurdly limited fashion because a true application of your fundamental tenet, the sanctity of life, carries you into troubled waters, when rationally extended. You are a seaker of comfort and convenience, not of logical consistency. You claim a significance for the ovum and cast aside a living cell. Because it is you who is the abortionist, I can't blame you for your blindness.
Politics schmolotics, first off, can anyone give an extremely good detailed definition/beliefs of what a LIBERAL is and what a Conservative is?
I don't think anyone can give a DETAILED definition.
The problem is we have Liberals with conservative views and vice versa, too many people think they are liberal and they are not. Sheesh, oh well. I have my beliefs and i dont view myself as a full liberal or a full conservative, yet I really hate the Liberals because the politicians portay them in Canada as being god hating globalists who don't give a crap about the "family values" and all they do is promote stupid policies that waste millions of dollars and blah blah blah.
Bah, politics, I think we need to have reforendums on all issues and let the people decide.
I believe in Pro CHOICE, if you want an abortion then have at it, I believe in Capital Punishment, eye for an eye. I believe if a criminal breaks into your house then shoot the SOB, yet in canada if you dare shoot them while they are in your house then you are in big trouble. Same as England, you will be charged with murder basically and rot away in jail because you are defending your property.
oh yah, I believe in OWNING property, unlike the Canadian government that believes it has full power to telling you what to do with your property. ie: C-68 firearms act, makes it so that every firearms(rifle, handgun) must be registered and all owners must be licensed. LMAO you think criminals will license and register their guns? What a joke.
For Moonbeam and BrianS among others. Answer this. Why should a newborn baby have the same civil rights as you and I? They don't pay taxes. They are totally dependent. The babies of the single teen poor are destined to live in poverty etc. Why not just allow the parents to do away with them if they so desire? It's their kid. It ought to be their "right" to do what they want with their own kid, no?
Too absurd? Then why not expect the same protection for a child that's about to be born? If my wife were 8 months pregnant, and lost the baby due to a reckless driver, I'd say that driver should be charged with a homicide. Beating a 2 year old to death is a heinous crime, but dismembering a child in utero is shrugged off. Doesn't seem too complicated or "gray" to me!
But Ornery, you make my point. Why not protect the chopped out appendix, the lost hair folicle and all those sacred cells that contain the potential to be cloned into wonderful human life. You simply lack imagination. You stop too soon. You don't see where your argument inevitibly leads and shine on the irreductible conclusion that staring you right in the face. Like all left wingers you take only what suites you. You care nothing for absolute truth, the sanctity of life.
Can't answer a simple question, eh Moonbeam? Your "cells" don't have civil rights at any time in their existence. Why should a newborn? Why is there a difference? Why should they have those rights 1 minute after birth, but not 1 minute before? Hmmmmmmm?
How can I make your point when you haven't even made one yet?
My point is very clear, Ornery, and it is you who run from the question. Nothing in what I said raises any question about rights before and after birth. I imply those right exist before after and beyond anything you evoke. I want civil rights extended to all human cells, I want the supreme court to overturn R Vs W and begin the lock up of every living human for mass murder. You care nothing for the real implication and extension of your logic. You cannot pretend you care about fertilized ova and not extend that to all other human cells that can create human beings. You are a phoney, or your argument is, one of the two. We must undertake the grand task of saving all potential human cells or admit that they just aren't particularly special. Do that and our whole position colapses. We must admit that the fertilized ova are just cells of no particular significance. That may be a path for you, but My Truth is absolute. We must be locked up as mass murderers.
<< Xerrox_man Are all conservatives as stupid as You? >>
Gee, considering you can't even spell properly, Brian, I guess that's a moot question, isn't it?
And for you to assume that I am the kind of person that would try to convert a bunch of people to my religion is laughable at best, and anybody that's been around here for any period of time knows why.
For everybody's information - had a very nice time last night, even though we know we have differences. I think RESPECT is probably the key thing for us, we both respect each others opinion and don't stoop to name calling like Brian here.
MND -- << ask yourselves: would you rather live as an imperfect being or not live at all?? >>
You obviously live in a world where there are no cruelly deformed, or catastrophically retarded newborns. Your world does not contain severely addicted drug babies who will live their entire life without a chance of living a normal existance or sharing in the beauty to be found in this world. Neither are there abused, ignored, damaged babies born to fourteen year old runaways, ill equipped to mother their infants. In short, you live in a very sheltered world.
Welcome to friendly planet Earth, where, all things considered, terminating a pregnancy may, in fact, be the best of bad alternatives.
All life is not that precious. In a world that is already strained to its current limit to feed and house its poor, and too mired in greed to deal with the environmental impact of its present population, a potential new life is not necessarily in the best interest of the mother or anyone else, including the child-to-be, itself.
Of course, MrPALCO, I'm ready to lock you up now. But tell me, of those here, who more than you should see the truth of my vision? You ought to be the first to turn yourself in. Where is your concern for the unborn?