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Are all liberals this confused?

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BDawg

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
11,631
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Xerox Man - Counrties like India and China have human overcrowding problems in some areas. Should we allow sportsmen to hunt and eat the humans?

I seem to fall somewhat in the middle ground. I don't agree with abortions, but I do not think they should be banned.

I espescially abhor abortions as a consistent use of birth control. Put on a condom. Take a pill. How hard is it?

I don't like the idea of a 16 year old getting prgnant and raising a child. Sure, she could give the baby up for adoption...most of them keep it. In many situations, the child of teenage parents does not have a good life (or adult parents ;) ). If abortion can prevent a child from living in an abusive or drug riddled enviornment, so be it.
 

Total Refected Power

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
3,899
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If you believe abortion is murder than it is black and white. Are there unfit parents who are better off not having children? Absolutely. Is killing the child the best way to avoid hardship to the child/mother? Maybe that's logical but in my heart of hearts I know its wrong.
Forget about religion.

Stopping pregnancies because of them being an inconvenience to career or that the 17 yr old can attend the prom is despicable and contributes to the moral decay of the society.

People are fond of claiming the need for taking responsibilty for their actions but on this issue they abdicate the greatest responsibilty by simply removing it. Do I believe the young women who are in dire straits need assistance? Yes, by all means. These people should be treated with respect and love and the burden lessened. Would I favor tax money in such an effort? Of course.

I am not liberal or conservative on this TOTAL issue but just want a solution that is not so brutal to all parties involved.

 

Isla

Elite member
Sep 12, 2000
7,749
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Corn,

The statement I made was not an argument. It was a statement of my opinion.

I am not a doctor so I cannot know in what circumstances such a thing might happen. I did hear of a case in which a woman who desperately wanted her child found out at a late date that A) the child would not survive birth due to a congenital defect and B) her life was in imminent danger. It was, by all accounts, a tragedy.

Therefore, it should be understood that professionals in the medical community would have to make these decisions very carefully. Certain criteria would have to be met... papers would have to be filed in triplicate. If it only happened in such tragic and extreme circumstances, it would be understandable IMHO.
 

gUEv

Senior member
Oct 11, 2000
882
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frankly i don't have an opinion on abortion...never knocked a girl up, and never intend to.
I must say both sides have very compelling arguments though
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91


<< I did hear of a case in which a woman who desperately wanted her child found out at a late date that A) the child would not survive birth due to a congenital defect and B) her life was in imminent danger. >>



I did not disagree with inducing labor when the life of the monther is in imminent danger--but again I ask, why must the child be put to death?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,522
4,198
126
You prolifers just don't get it do you. You go on and on about the sanctity of the unborn fetus and care nothing whatever about the uncloned skin cell. Your hypocracy is outrageous. Everywhere around you trillions and trillions of potential people are dying and you do nothing. You babble on and on about the sanctity of one cell and ignore the billions of other cells that contain the same promise. You call yourself prolifers, you wouldn't know prolife if it bit you in the arse.

Bober--- :D
 

Total Refected Power

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
3,899
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Moonbeam:

Don't dilute someone's position with this nonsense. Skin cells or other protein turn-over products don't have the inherent potential to become a human being without the intervention of relatively new biological techniques. This is all about INTENT. I can't control cell death but a consenting abortion procedure is another matter. You're not even close.

Peace :)
 

MrPALCO

Banned
Nov 14, 1999
2,064
0
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<< You prolifers just don't get it do you. You go on and on about the sanctity of the unborn fetus and care nothing whatever about the uncloned skin cell. >>



I have yet to hear a woman compare the baby in her whom to a mass of cloned cells. You abortionists are really grasping.

On another note, it has been said that the unstable 16 year old who lacks the emotional stability to bring a child into the world, should be allowed to kill him. (aka abortion)
That thought has been applauded in this thread.

Should we allow teens burdened by other life issues to resort to immoral and unjust behavior to release the emotional pressure that their words and actions have produced?

How about looking the other way when a teen steals a pack of cigarettes or burglarizes a home. Why not over look a car theft, after all the teen is burdened down by a lack of wheels. How about cheating on a test, we wouldn't want this teen pressured by a tough test.

The best way to face a mistake is to work out of it honorably, and get on with your life.

Resorting to murder to cure a mistake will taint the life forever.

There is Forgiveness and a wiping clean of the record forever, through God.

:)

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,522
4,198
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TotalRP, How dare you accuse me of diluting someone's position with nonsense. Have a care to what you say or you will have the abortionists attacking you for throwing up 'the nonsensical diversion of the sanctity of the embryo'. The skin cell is sacred because it can be cloned into a human life and don't try to obfuscate my argument with nonsense about intent. Every time you wipe your a$$ you destroy millions. Tell me you don't intend to wipe your a$$. How about giving blood and having the bottle go out of date in storage. Trillions of dead all by your intent. 'Not even close' Bull, I'm so close I'm right on. You start down the path of truth, that abortion is a terrible crime, but when somebody shows you that you are guilty of exactly the same crime, the same blindness, you turn and snap at me because I have the superior ethic. You are a mass murderer and you won't face up to it. You must go deeper and extend your thoughts. What is good for the fertilized ovum is good for the skin cell. Yours is a failure of vision, a commitment to truth, a lack of will to apply your convictions fully to their logical extent.
 

shifrbv

Senior member
Feb 21, 2000
981
1
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People want to believe that life is sacred. No where
in the scriptures is it written that life is sacred.
Life is serious; life is precious; life is temporary!
Death gives life its value. When life is worth more
than honor, that person knows no shame. When you love
life to the point that no matter how a life is lived,
and have no concern for the conditions under which a
life must survive it is an abomination to God and man.
WHEN LIFE IS ALL--GOD IS NOTHING! When life is all,
where does that leave Christ on the cross? Does God
kill that which is sacred?


 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
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<< You start down the path of truth, that abortion is a terrible crime, but when somebody shows you that you are guilty of exactly the same crime, the same blindness, you turn and snap at me because I have the superior ethic. >>



That ridiculous post is evidence of your inability to provide an reasoned evidence of your support for your position. You only hurt your cause with such nonsense.
 

Isla

Elite member
Sep 12, 2000
7,749
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Again Corn, in this particular instance the doctors involved felt there was no other way. I don't remember the details, only reading it and feeling the mother's pain.

If indeed these procedures have been done by doctors who knowingly could have taken another route or who did it as a matter of convenience, then may they eventually be charged with murder.

When most of us go to the doctor, we put our care in their trust. It should be illegal to seek out a partial ban abortion, but not illegal to endure one if the hospital you are in insists there is no other choice.

If doctors have been doing this for any other reason save that they have no choice, then something is terribly, terribly wrong with our health care system... and perhaps there is... but that's a whole 'nother can of worms, no?

Also, I might remind some of you that I am neither pro-life nor pro-choice. I find either stance to be far too limiting to encompass my views on the matter.

Peace~
 

BDawg

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
11,631
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MrPalco- My point wasn't that teenagers should be able to take the easy way out. It was that sometimes, not being born is a more humane thing for the baby.

Sometimes, death is better than life.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,522
4,198
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Corn, what are you blathering about. What could be more nondescript and lacking in logical critique that to accuse me of not providing evidence for backing up my position. What position? What lack of evidence. I made many points. Your post has no substance at all. Apply to yourself your own criticism and get back to me. And please be so good as to point out where my stand is not your stand, only more so.

TRP, please read my signature. :D
 

Blackhawk2

Senior member
May 1, 2000
455
0
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Moonbeam, the cells at the surface of your skin are dead to begin with, they protect the living cells from the air. So the analogy of wiping your butt is that you are wiping off dead cells.

<<...Everywhere around you trillions and trillions of potential people are dying and you do nothing. You babble on and on about the sanctity of one cell and ignore the billions of other cells that contain the same promise...>>

What are the pro-choicers doing to help these potential people from dying (hypocritical->thinking only one side is at fault)? Take a living cell from a human give it food and see if it will form a human being, if it does contact me, I'm interested in knowing of this miracle of yours.
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
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ok, take an embryo outside of a womb and see if it forms a fetus. if it does, publish the report and see if the committee will nominate you for the nobel prize.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
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Any humans cloned from skin cells yet?

No?

Well, there goes your arugment.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
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<< ok, take an embryo outside of a womb and see if it forms a fetus.... >>



More idiocy, but hey, grasp at whatever straws you can, your desperation only proves your inability at reasoned argument.


Mooncrack, skin cells are skin cells, not fertilized eggs, embryo's or developing humans, however; if a skin cell had undergone the process of cloning to where it became a developing human then I would agree--it's destruction would be as dispicable as aborting a living fetus.

If you wish to make a comparison, at least compare apples to apples. Your example is akin to the normal menstration period of a woman in which an unfertilized egg is discharged from the body--definately not an applicable parallel as an abortion.

Nice try, but still moronic.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,522
4,198
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Corn and Blackhawk2, You only confirm my point. You are TOO literal. Do you really think I could have advanced this articulate and highly reasoned biological inevitability and not been aware that skin cells are dead. Please don't be so myopic. You know perfectly well that the thrust and force of my argument lies in the absolute identy of potential that lies harbored in the nucleus of any, almost any, cell. It is this selfsame literalness that prevents you from realizing that cells about which you care nothing are cast into the dust bin while you extole the sacrosanctity of just that one cell which you are fixated on, the fertilized ovum. Either abandon they postion as the absurdity you claim mine is, or join me in a devine crusade to save all potentially sentient cells. The judgement of time is upon you. Think of the millions unborn screaming out from appendixes lying moldering awaiting their turn in the medical waste incinerator. Now that we know that every cell contains the complete code for human life we must preserve every one. Nothing can be lost or we are murderers. The day is neigh when we will be able to unlock each one of these sad sad lives. Please, please, can't you see my call to you. Don't turn you back on the unborn like the abortionist so calously does. Please please, don't say, &quot;Any humans born from skin cells yet&quot;; that's like saying any humans born from aborted ova. Think!
 

monckywrench

Senior member
Aug 27, 2000
313
0
0
Ya missed an opportunity to pander to her shallow outlook and get a shot of leg! Whazzup with that? Display of fembot liberalthink indicates emotional malleability. Political debate has a place, but why alienate booty?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,522
4,198
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Corn, please please don't call my argument moronic, because it is your argument, the very same one, only deeper, more true and expansive. Let your imagination soar.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
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The day someone can possibly perform an abortion on a single cell is the day your parallel will not be moronic.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
61,338
5,186
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The day someone can possibly perform an abortion on a single cell

Women do this 12 times a year. It's called a period.
 

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