I've always been tempted to join the national guard. Its too bad their duties are so expansive to include overseas deployment. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but otherwise, I'd be interested in joining an organization that is purely defensive on continental domestic soil.
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AR-15's back in stock...big time
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I've always been tempted to join the national guard. Its too bad their duties are so expansive to include overseas deployment. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but otherwise, I'd be interested in joining an organization that is purely defensive on continental domestic soil.
GagHalfrunt
Lifer
You're not wrong. If you're in the National Guard the military owns your ass and you can be shipped out for no valid reason other than someone wants you to go. I agree with you, the Guard would probably have a lot more recruiting success if it was disentangled from the conventional military and limited to domestic protection roles only.
FerrelGeek
Diamond Member
wirednuts, you're not making a good case that smoking weed is harmless. I'd classify you as a possible example that it causes brain damage.
exdeath
Lifer
Actually the AR was originally meant to be .308.
It was adapted to .223 at the request of the military for the small caliber high velocity rifle trials and went on to become the AR15, but the AR10 came first.
BlitzPuppet
Platinum Member
Yes, that I know but the AR I was referring to is the AR that is the most popular here in the US, the AR15.
The AR10 is not as popular or prolific.
When people say "I want to get an AR!" they usually are thinking about/defaulting to the AR15 in 5.56/.223.
SaurusX
Senior member
"Well regulated" in the context of the second amendment means "properly functioning". As in a well regulated clock or a well regulated digestive system. It doesn't mean bound by a whole bunch of rules and regulations.
uclaLabrat
Diamond Member
Maybe that's what the law says now, based on the court's interpretations, but you see the words you used there? Regulated means regulations. Notice how they're different forms of the same word? How "regulated" is a verb and "regulations" is a noun? So yes, contrary to your point, "well regulated" means exactly that, bound by regulations.
SaurusX
Senior member
Negative. And I knew what I what I was doing. You can't deny that the court's interpretation of the phrase is perfectly in line with accepted usage both now and when the constitution was written. They didn't make it up. You just don't like the end result.
highland145
Lifer
Why is this even in discussion. The reason for the 2nd is simple. The Brits/Gen. Gage tried to round up weapons so the civilians couldn't fight back. The framers wanted to "ensure" it wouldn't happen again.
clamum
Lifer
😛
Yeah I was just kiddin. I have absolutely zero interest in Desert Eagles or peenor/caliber wars. For awhile my Savage Mark II .22LR was my favorite gun, and I still might pick it as my favorite.
uclaLabrat
Diamond Member
Wrong again, and this will be my last post on the subject, because I don't feel like getting involved in a useless semantic argument. But based on your post, a simple search of the phrase yields this site:
http://constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm
Which pretty much states your implications. I would argue that it also backs up mine. All the the quotes from the above link indicate following commonly accepted rules or regulations. A clock is only "well regulated" if its keeps accurate time, i.e. it is able to accurately and precisely dictate the intervals of time, in seconds, minutes, and hours. A person with a "well-regulated mind" presumably is able to follow the rules that dictate common sense and logic. All of these examples represent something "well regulated" as faithfully following pre-ordained rules, customs and regulations.
A bunch of guys sitting around on a back porch doesn't qualify under those definitions. They're in fact the definition of unregulated. Nor are they part of a militia. A militia is an organization with a command structure.
Now, as to why you're wrong on both counts, I actually don't like the way it's written because I think it denies access to weapons for the general public, which I don't believe in. I believe every human should have the right to self defense. I currently don't own any guns, but I would like to at some point in the future.
I just hate faulty logic.
xBiffx
Diamond Member
Regulate this fucktards:
Love dem penetrators.
SaurusX
Senior member
I don't understand why you're getting worked up about it. The Supreme Court has already ruled against the interpretation that you're against, yet insist is the correct one. You should be happy.
We agree on this.
exdeath
Lifer
Not sure why they are called penetrators. Its a mild steel tip for the purpose of shifting the center of mass of the projectile for stabilization and long range accuracy purposes. Doesn't really have any penetration capability over that of any high velocity rifle cartridge.
zinfamous
No Lifer
not only that, but the founders recognized the dangers of a standing military, but also the need to maintain an institution that can provide for the common defense.
the militia was a grand idea, but too bad we shit on the graves of the founders and now bow at the mighty pedestal of the Pentagon. :\
edro
Lifer
56% of the supreme court ruled on that interpretation.
It is still a huge debate and always will be.
I am personally glad they ruled the way they did, but I personally believe "well regulated militia" means an organized military group, separate from the state.
highland145
Lifer
The biggest LGS in my area just posted at least 6 ARs that arrived today alone, and prices are slowly heading down.
Handgun prices dropped almost immediately. I'm seeing those going for pre-panic prices already.
ARs, on the other hand, are going for ~MSRP, which is NOT pre-panic pricing. For example, MSRP on an M&P15 Sport is $839, but it was going for $699 max all day long back in October 2012 (you could even snag them for $649 or less at gun shows).
So right now, MSRP is the "new normal" on ARs.
Handgun prices dropped almost immediately. I'm seeing those going for pre-panic prices already.
ARs, on the other hand, are going for ~MSRP, which is NOT pre-panic pricing. For example, MSRP on an M&P15 Sport is $839, but it was going for $699 max all day long back in October 2012 (you could even snag them for $649 or less at gun shows).
So right now, MSRP is the "new normal" on ARs.
Unfortunately for your opinion, we have several decades of science and real-world hard military use promoting the combat effectiveness of smaller caliber rifles.
.30+ calibers have their purpose. If you want to reach out and touch someone at a distance, that is a caliber of choice. But the science is pretty sound. You can give an average person a heavy battle rifle (like an FAL...I've got a couple of those myself) or an AR-15, and they'll put more rounds on target faster at short-medium distances (0-200m) with the AR. Same applies for an AK-47 vs. AK-74; the 74 allows you to put more rounds on target faster (and more accurately) than the 47, and it still does quite a lot of damage to soft targets.
CurseTheSky
Diamond Member
Shelves here in CT are still much more bare than they were 5 months ago. Two LGS used to have display cases jammed full of pistols, and now they've resorted to filling half their cases with scopes, holsters, and other nonsense.
Ammo is slowly starting to become less scarce, and the prices are slowly going back down.
I still can't believe one of the local shops had an M&P shield on display... and six in the back. 😱 They've been like hen's teeth here since they came out. I think every single one was purchase while we were there, including the one I took home. 🙂
About the only positive that has come out of this for gun owners is that a lot of older and sometimes rare guns are (were) getting traded in. For a while I was seeing Remington 660s, Winchester Model 100s, some obscure European / Asian stuff, a lot of old military rifles, etc. I managed to grab an M1917 in nice shape that someone sporterized for $160. Not a jaw-dropping deal, but not bad for a decent .30-06.
Ammo is slowly starting to become less scarce, and the prices are slowly going back down.
I still can't believe one of the local shops had an M&P shield on display... and six in the back. 😱 They've been like hen's teeth here since they came out. I think every single one was purchase while we were there, including the one I took home. 🙂
About the only positive that has come out of this for gun owners is that a lot of older and sometimes rare guns are (were) getting traded in. For a while I was seeing Remington 660s, Winchester Model 100s, some obscure European / Asian stuff, a lot of old military rifles, etc. I managed to grab an M1917 in nice shape that someone sporterized for $160. Not a jaw-dropping deal, but not bad for a decent .30-06.
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datalink7
Lifer
A decent amount of States still have State Defense Forces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force
OverVolt
Lifer
And ammo weight. People forget that. Ammo weight is a big deal.
PrinceofWands
Lifer
At the time it was written 'well regulated' meant practiced, or trained, or properly functioning. In other words, since people are the militia and they have to all know how to use weapons, we'll never tell you you can't have and practice with them.
The 'militia' was every able bodied man of age. In today's terms, to avoid discrimination, it would be every citizen over 18.
This has been well covered in numerous academic and legal accounts.
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What do you mean ammo weight? I've played fallout 3, ammo is weightless.
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