Apple vs. The World

[Zaap]

This is why I have an AppleTV serving up all the content to my 'smart'TV since I don't trust it to actually be smart. And it would be a Roku, or FireTV, or nVidia Shield if I didn't have so much content through iTunes. Basically, I wouldn't ever let a SmartTV connect to the internet; it's an attack vector (same with most IoT devices, which is why if I can't run them through HomeKit, I don't run them), and the ad thing.

This must be as recent thing, as I haven't noticed ads on my 4K Vizio (Last year's Black Friday purchase.)

Still, it seems to me you're just as likely to see ads pushed by big companies via any streaming box as you are directly on the TV itself (which likely is just running an internal chip same as is in the streaming box).

Meanwhile if I didnt allow my TV to connect directly to the internet, I'd have missed several crucial firmware updates which have improved the menus, and I'd lose Alexa compatibility. Also I couldn't airplay and chromecast directly to it, rather than thru the FireTV and it's just simply more convenient.

I can't fathom why I'd care that Vizio might want to show me some ads on the built in Chromecast, which I don't even use. If the interface on the TV has ads that bother a person- then simply don't use it. But disconnecting the TV from updates and other services seems a bit extreme to me.

 

[TheStu]

This must be as recent thing, as I haven't noticed ads on my 4K Vizio (Last year's Black Friday purchase.)

Still, it seems to me you're just as likely to see ads pushed by big companies via any streaming box as you are directly on the TV itself (which likely is just running an internal chip same as is in the streaming box).

Meanwhile if I didnt allow my TV to connect directly to the internet, I'd have missed several crucial firmware updates which have improved the menus, and I'd lose Alexa compatibility. Also I couldn't airplay and chromecast directly to it, rather than thru the FireTV and it's just simply more convenient.

I can't fathom why I'd care that Vizio might want to show me some ads on the built in Chromecast, which I don't even use. If the interface on the TV has ads that bother a person- then simply don't use it. But disconnecting the TV from updates and other services seems a bit extreme to me.

My TV is just a display that shows me content served up by the AppleTV. I'll have to check to see if there are any firmware updates for my TV that I would actually care about because unless it's going to improve the display quality, then it just doesn't matter to me. I don't want or need Alexa integration, I never look at its menus, and I Airplay to my AppleTV. If other people find value in having their smart TV be 'smart' then good for them, but since all I want is a big dumb display I don't connect mine to the internet. I just want a fridge that keeps food cold, a TV that is a dumb display, and a washer/dryer that wash and dry, respectively.

Now smart bulbs, I can't get enough of those things. Sylvania makes really affordable ($15 for 2 at walmart) ones that have built in BT, don't require a separate hub, and talk to HomeKit.

 

[Zaap]

If you bought a fridge let's say, that had smart capabilities, I think it'd be a bit silly not to use it on the basis of some nefarious plot by the company that made it. Not saying anyone particular needs a 'smart' fridge, but if it had useful internet connected features, it'd be a bit useless 'stand' to make to refuse to use them.

Likewise, I don't think plots to send you ads or whatever is negated much if at all by which device in the chain does the streaming. They all use the same services, made by the same companies. (Most TV manufacturers haven't reinvented the wheel- it's just one of the streaming service boxes built into the monitor, rather than an external dongle or box.) That's exactly why a TV maker would say (correctly) don't blame us, blame google. It's just a damn chromecast or Android TV chip inside the TV, rather than outside it in another plastic box. Not really much voo-doo to it.

Also, since a TV is just another electronic device running software as any other electronic box, it can indeed benefit from firmware updates same as anything else. If Apple or Google issue a firmware update to ATV or Chromecast, I can't really see the benefit in keeping the thing frozen at the firmware when purchased. I wouldn't say an update could improve a TV's picture quality- except it might if it updated better tools by which you adjust the picture, or made that easier and more responsive. It's not a plot- it's just the nature that the software isn't bug-free and absolutely 'finished' the day the TV left the factory any more than any other device.

Whole subject is no big deal- not really criticizing you for not using any smart features of your TV. I just thought it was an interesting 'stand' to take against whatever company, that basically doesn't do anything since those same companies are gonna reach you anyway thru the very next device you have connected.

 

[TheStu]

If you bought a fridge let's say, that had smart capabilities, I think it'd be a bit silly not to use it on the basis of some nefarious plot by the company that made it. Not saying anyone particular needs a 'smart' fridge, but if it had useful internet connected features, it'd be a bit useless 'stand' to make to refuse to use them.

Likewise, I don't think plots to send you ads or whatever is negated much if at all by which device in the chain does the streaming. They all use the same services, made by the same companies. (Most TV manufacturers haven't reinvented the wheel- it's just one of the streaming service boxes built into the monitor, rather than an external dongle or box.) That's exactly why a TV maker would say (correctly) don't blame us, blame google. It's just a damn chromecast or Android TV chip inside the TV, rather than outside it in another plastic box. Not really much voo-doo to it.

Also, since a TV is just another electronic device running software as any other electronic box, it can indeed benefit from firmware updates same as anything else. If Apple or Google issue a firmware update to ATV or Chromecast, I can't really see the benefit in keeping the thing frozen at the firmware when purchased. I wouldn't say an update could improve a TV's picture quality- except it might if it updated better tools by which you adjust the picture, or made that easier and more responsive. It's not a plot- it's just the nature that the software isn't bug-free and absolutely 'finished' the day the TV left the factory any more than any other device.

Whole subject is no big deal- not really criticizing you for not using any smart features of your TV. I just thought it was an interesting 'stand' to take against whatever company, that basically doesn't do anything since those same companies are gonna reach you anyway thru the very next device you have connected.

I"m not sure where our disconnect is... A thing I own offers a feature for which I have no use (built-in apps/'smart' software). In order to use said feature, I would have had to do extra work (connect it to the internet), which also comes with a couple downsides (a new attack vector into my home, having to deal with firmware updates, un-avoidable ads) along with the benefits (I don't need a separate box for Netflix/Hulu/HBO/Youtube/CBS/iTunes Movies/Apple Music Streaming/Plex). Since I already have a solutions for the BENEFITS (an AppleTV that was connected to my previous dumb screen), I don't even have to go down that road, and I am happy for that. I never said it was a plot or that there was any voodoo to it. And the only 'stand' I really take is that I would rather avoid ads where I can, and will take reasonable steps to do so. I run adblockers and a VPN, I pay extra to Spotify and Hulu (YouTube Premium is $16/mo which more than I'm willing to pay), and I de-personalize ads wherever I can. The AppleTV does NOT regularly serve up additional ads (though after updates it will frequently throw up a 1-time thing either to talk about a privacy feature, or AppleTV+, but it doesn't play a trailer for "See" before the YouTube app opens, for example)

 

[Zaap]

The disconnect is you're talking as if a computer monitor hooked to a computer is somehow an "attack vector"(overlooking the computer itself!) just because it also had internet features. I just find it a pretty redundant thing to worry about since everything you're viewing through it is attached to internet, using the exact same services. I've never seen an ad on any of my TV's from the TV itself. I have however benefitted from the firmware being updated, as generation 1 firmware on devices is often buggy, and as I said by it having full home automation control.

(Also, maybe it's being missed that using the TV's connected features don't require me to view the built in Chromecast, which is the only place any 'attack vector' ads would theoretically appear. I turn it on and it connects to the SOURCE I choose, same as if it weren't connected. It's just a monitor that can update itself and be controlled by other devices. If all the spam in the world were on the internal Chromecast, I'd never see it.)

Now, if there's a model or brand of TV famous for spam-bombarding the viewer and leaving them no choice but to have to view it, then absolutely, that'd be something to get up in arms about. I suspect it's not a huge issue tho...

 

[TheStu]

The disconnect is you're talking as if a computer monitor hooked to a computer is somehow an "attack vector"(overlooking the computer itself!) just because it also had internet features. I just find it a pretty redundant thing to worry about since everything you're viewing through it is attached to internet, using the exact same services. I've never seen an ad on any of my TV's from the TV itself. I have however benefitted from the firmware being updated, as generation 1 firmware on devices is often buggy, and as I said by it having full home automation control.

(Also, maybe it's being missed that using the TV's connected features don't require me to view the built in Chromecast, which is the only place any 'attack vector' ads would theoretically appear. I turn it on and it connects to the SOURCE I choose, same as if it weren't connected. It's just a monitor that can update itself and be controlled by other devices. If all the spam in the world were on the internal Chromecast, I'd never see it.)

Now, if there's a model or brand of TV famous for spam-bombarding the viewer and leaving them no choice but to have to view it, then absolutely, that'd be something to get up in arms about. I suspect it's not a huge issue tho...

This is NOT about ads.

When I'm talking about attack vectors, I'm not talking about ads. I'm talking about a 'Smart'TV's DUMB internet connection over which the individual consumer has little control.

This is NOT about ads.

I don't think everything in my life needs to be connected to the internet, even if it does have it's own built in wifi antenna. You don't seem to mind. IoT devices (which 'Smart'TVs definitely are) have been, and continue to be, used in massive DDoS attacks because they are usually incredibly insecure devices with open ports on the internet. Your ChomeCast and my AppleTV, and the Roku, and the FireTV, and most other streaming boxes are NOT nearly as exposed on that front (it varies from OS to OS, box to box). The same can be said about most smart lightbulbs, locks, thermostats, switches, sprinklers, garage door openers, blinds, and whatever else they come up with to add to the INTERNET OF THINGS!!!

This is NOT about ads.

Ads are annoying, and I want to avoid them, but even more than that, I want to avoid having anything I own getting taken over by a gigantic botnet and being used nefariously.

 

[Zaap]

Hoooooo kay....

 

[ultimatebob]

This is NOT about ads.

When I'm talking about attack vectors, I'm not talking about ads. I'm talking about a 'Smart'TV's DUMB internet connection over which the individual consumer has little control.

This is NOT about ads.

I don't think everything in my life needs to be connected to the internet, even if it does have it's own built in wifi antenna. You don't seem to mind. IoT devices (which 'Smart'TVs definitely are) have been, and continue to be, used in massive DDoS attacks because they are usually incredibly insecure devices with open ports on the internet. Your ChomeCast and my AppleTV, and the Roku, and the FireTV, and most other streaming boxes are NOT nearly as exposed on that front (it varies from OS to OS, box to box). The same can be said about most smart lightbulbs, locks, thermostats, switches, sprinklers, garage door openers, blinds, and whatever else they come up with to add to the INTERNET OF THINGS!!!

This is NOT about ads.

Ads are annoying, and I want to avoid them, but even more than that, I want to avoid having anything I own getting taken over by a gigantic botnet and being used nefariously.

When the time comes, I was planning on disabling the Wi-Fi on my "smart" TV when it stops getting updated. If I get a $40 Roku to replace that functionality, I should be in pretty good shape without having an unpatched device on my home network.

 

[Jwilliams01207]

I think that there is one thing that we do not take into consideration. The Enthusiasts market is very very small as compare to General Population.

There are 20 Millions College/University Students in the USA. Go and Look at any of them you will see the 95% of the Students (and staff) carry MacBooks.

If you observe the post College people in the 20 and early 30 it similar.

I.e., Apple gears itself to what this segment of the population like. Smart.

On the other hand Microsoft knows the future of Windows is mainly in Enterprise so they do with consumers whatever comfortable to Microsoft.

 

[Jwilliams01207]

I think that there is one thing that we do not take into consideration. The Enthusiasts market is very very small as compare to General Population.

There are 20 Millions College/University Students in the USA. Go and Look at any of them you will see the 95% of the Students (and staff) carry MacBooks.

If you observe the post College people in the 20 and early 30 it similar.

I.e., Apple gears itself to what this segment of the population like. Smart.

On the other hand Microsoft knows the future of Windows is mainly in Enterprise so they do with consumers whatever comfortable to Microsoft.



Why are you copying other member's posts and using them as your own?

Apple vs. The World

Just some technical observations from an old techy nerd. If I step on toes, I apologize, that’s not my intention, and I can be blunt. My dearly deceased partner had an IMac when I met him, an incredibly expensive piece of crap. He didn’t know, Macs are the best. Everyone knew it. It had a...

forums.anandtech.com

esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[kingrobert]

Everybody has their perspective.

 

[The red spirit]

More like Apple sells well, becasue their target market is basically tech non savy audience. If you look at it that way, then it suddenly starts to make sense. They remove many pain points that makes people confused, uncertain or intimidated by tech, eliminates them or at worst, repackages in humanly understandable language. It's not really a tech enthusiast company and it is 100% not DIYer company and Apple's stuff cost more, merely because their audience doesn't care and accept a hefty task to make amazing technology accessible to them. IMO that's the main value that Apple creates and the whole point of company. A typical non tech literate person doesn't care about file manager, neither they care about options, because options confuse and intimidate, therefore ecosystem is just more intuitive and "just works" kind of solution for them. And the genius of that is that Apple unlike all other tech companies, manages to access people, who otherwise would be too intimidated by data, specs, functions and etc and basically managed to make them customers, obviously not for free, but for those people Apple prices are kind of reasonable, because their don't think that they really have other options or perhaps is aware that they have options, but isn't feeling safe about committing. I think Jobs even said once that Apple wants to make amazing tech available to people, but by people he didn't mean tech enthusiasts, he mostly meant just random people, who don't necessarily care or know every last thing about tech. As long as Apple removes pain points and makes their experience good, they don't complain.

 

[eikelbijter]

More like Apple sells well, becasue their target market is basically tech non savy audience. If you look at it that way, then it suddenly starts to make sense. They remove many pain points that makes people confused, uncertain or intimidated by tech, eliminates them or at worst, repackages in humanly understandable language. It's not really a tech enthusiast company and it is 100% not DIYer company and Apple's stuff cost more, merely because their audience doesn't care and accept a hefty task to make amazing technology accessible to them. IMO that's the main value that Apple creates and the whole point of company. A typical non tech literate person doesn't care about file manager, neither they care about options, because options confuse and intimidate, therefore ecosystem is just more intuitive and "just works" kind of solution for them. And the genius of that is that Apple unlike all other tech companies, manages to access people, who otherwise would be too intimidated by data, specs, functions and etc and basically managed to make them customers, obviously not for free, but for those people Apple prices are kind of reasonable, because their don't think that they really have other options or perhaps is aware that they have options, but isn't feeling safe about committing. I think Jobs even said once that Apple wants to make amazing tech available to people, but by people he didn't mean tech enthusiasts, he mostly meant just random people, who don't necessarily care or know every last thing about tech. As long as Apple removes pain points and makes their experience good, they don't complain.

The problem is, and I have seen it MANY times first hand, that Apple users lose stuff because they don't even really know where it's stored. They have been voluntarily dumbed down. Manual backing up of files, pictures and whatever else leads to a better understanding of what you have and what you don't.

The whole "it just works" mantra is just completely false. Case in point: my neighbors fiancee who HATES him for refusing to buy an iPhone and sticking with Android lost her ENTIRE calendar history when buying a new phone, WITH THE HELP OF APPLE SUPPORT! She literally cried for days because it had a lot of important info, and two weeks later she was spouting the nonsense again that the Fruit had never failed her. Not six months later, within MINUTES of her man and I making a backup on a USB stick plugged into his Samsung, she called CRYING saying she lost pics/videos because her phone was full and after HOURS with support she had to delete apps and their files.

It horrifies and amuses me at the same time....

 

[The red spirit]

The problem is, and I have seen it MANY times first hand, that Apple users lose stuff because they don't even really know where it's stored. They have been voluntarily dumbed down. Manual backing up of files, pictures and whatever else leads to a better understanding of what you have and what you don't.

The whole "it just works" mantra is just completely false. Case in point: my neighbors fiancee who HATES him for refusing to buy an iPhone and sticking with Android lost her ENTIRE calendar history when buying a new phone, WITH THE HELP OF APPLE SUPPORT! She literally cried for days because it had a lot of important info, and two weeks later she was spouting the nonsense again that the Fruit had never failed her. Not six months later, within MINUTES of her man and I making a backup on a USB stick plugged into his Samsung, she called CRYING saying she lost pics/videos because her phone was full and after HOURS with support she had to delete apps and their files.

It horrifies and amuses me at the same time....

Well, "it just works" is only an idea, doesn't mean that it's handled well in practice. Also nobody really said that Apple support is any good. Pretty sure they just reseted the whole phone and nuked everything. All I can say is that they are "geniuses".

 

[VirtualLarry]

The whole "it just works" mantra is just completely false. Case in point: my neighbors fiancee who HATES him for refusing to buy an iPhone and sticking with Android lost her ENTIRE calendar history when buying a new phone, WITH THE HELP OF APPLE SUPPORT! She literally cried for days because it had a lot of important info, and two weeks later she was spouting the nonsense again that the Fruit had never failed her. Not six months later, within MINUTES of her man and I making a backup on a USB stick plugged into his Samsung, she called CRYING saying she lost pics/videos because her phone was full and after HOURS with support she had to delete apps and their files.

Apple isn't a computer company. It's a religion. Which is why I don't partake in Apple.

 

[shaggy77]

I would like to play devil's advocate based on my experience. My wife and daughter had iPhones way before I got one in 2021. They got them in 2019. My wife is still rocking her initially purchased i Phone 11. I was Android hold out until a year ago. I bought a 13 pro for myself. Honestly, being an android user for probably 10 years prior was not an easy move to make. However, I finally got the hang of things. I found it was easier to communicate with my immediate family when I am on the road. a quick face time call here and there makes up for the time I am not there in front of them. Honestly, it just works. I find some things more annoying like cache clearing or cycling an app that is stuck. OTHO, I like being able to use Apple Pay when I'm checking out at places.

This was not our first foray with Apple. Many years ago in 2008, we bought an iPod in which I loaded up a bunch of songs for when my daughter was baby. It ran for years every night with classical music playing to help her fall asleep. It finally crapped out in 2019 after pretty much non stop use between home and travel. When my daughter was little again, maybe 2010/11 the initial crazy of using a tablet to assist in learning became a thing. I called one of my really savy computer friends about what to get her. He said (at the time) get an i Pad. When I saw the cost I was like Holy _____!!! I said i would not be able to afford it. However, I looked around and the local micro center had refurb tablets. I called him back and he said it will work for you. It was like an Ipad 2 with 16 GB of storage for just over $200! She used it regularly with some educational apps. She watched videos of her fav movies and what not. There was a point in which I thought it had expired. It would not charge or turn on. She was older and lost interest.

One day in early 2021, I had to go to Best Buy for something. My wife and my daughter tagged along. While I was looking at laptops, my daughter just went over to the Apple section. She started playing with an ipad. Then she tells my wife that she remembers how fun her tablet was to use. She wished her old worked again. They had some apps on the one of the i Pads. She started messing around with them. By that time, I didn't find what I was looking for. so I found them just playing with the iPads on display. Of course, my daughter has fine tastes. She messed around with the Pro model the most since it had the pencil and the fancy apps. My wife pulls me to the side and says hey it's the more expensive than the other models but it also seems to have everything. She pulls a power move and goes you know how long her last one went. I said OK. My wife got a bonus at work. We used it to buy our daughter a new iPad Pro. Bonus fact, my daughter got excited in the store about the purchase. She used her own money to buy the Apple pencil as her own thing. To this day, my daughter is always using her tablet. Doesn't matter home or away, she always is using it for drawing, writing, watching videos, texting her friends.

Another Bonus fact, I wound up resurrecting her iPad 2. Turned out it had the battery thermal trip. A number of you tube videos showed the use of a heat source to effective reset the battery. I have several different heat sources in the work shop. Guess what. I took a heat gun to that baby. The i Pad came back to life. Handed it back to my daughter and got a big hug in return.

Move along to June of this year. I started a new job. The company put me up at a hotel near a mall for the week to for on boarding with the company. One night I took a walk around the mall, they had an Apple store. Played around with the different tablets. a few months prior was toying with the idea. Went back to the room, talked to the wife for awhile about things. She said if you want it get it. Just put it on the Apple card. I said OK. I bought myself an ipad for the road. I use it all the time. It's great for watching videos. I have the same keyboard set my daughter has. I type out notes which syncs to my phone. So while on the job site, I can reference the notes with ease of my phone. It find it funny that I text from the iPad when someone get ahold of me as well as phone calls. My wife and I fact time each other as I can share screens when we need to discuss matters while I'm on the road.

Prior to this i Pad. I had 2 tablets Fire7 HD and Fire 10 HD. I actually really liked my 7 HD. It was a good size and sturdy. The main issue with it was the fact you needed to essentially a series of programs to run google services on it to make it useful. I found Amazon's eco system pretty bleh to say the least. I really felt it was geared to Amazon and Amazon only. you watch and stream Amazon . You buy from Amazon. So forth and so on. I think my 7HD is from 2016. However, the google service install made it more usable. Come to 2020, there was a sale on Fire tablets. I said OK. She wanted to get an 8 and her 7HD was getting long in the tooth. I said I would get a 10 as it would be nice to have a larger screen. Also the 10's got an update in cpu and ram. She ordered them. Santa stacked them under the tree. My daughter's 10 HD died about 4 months in. It kept having a constant resetting and rebooting issue. She went back to using her 7 HD that we got her a few prior when we got our 7 HDs. My wife liked her 8 as it was the same size for the most part for her book reading and entertainment needs. I got my 10 HD, totally not impressed. I felt it was really cheap. It flexed easily. Amazon blocked the google side loading for a bit. Basically I just put it in the closet to forget about it. Some may say an Fire tablet is not a good experience for the most part. I would tend to agree. I would say the same thing. However, I think you get what you pay for.

Right now, I am typing this out on a Lenovo laptop. My last Lenovo laptop. It has Windows 11 15.6 inch screen with touch on a 11th gen i7 mobile CPU. The memory is 16 GB of soldered on RAM. I think the 1 TB hard drive is upgradable though. I got this new in February. Our other Lenovo was 14 inch was an i5 with16 gigs which I upgraded. and the HDD was 5400 spinner to SSD 500 GB model. We bought it early 2015. It was working well. My wife wanted something with a little bigger of a screen when she was using it to look up things. I found this model at Microcenter. I thought the specs where good. it met my wife requirements. I figured it should last at least the same amount of time as the other laptop. I prepped the older laptop for retirement duty for our trailer. When we were camping and needed a laptop for something . It was there. Office 365 just had to run a quick update once a month. This laptop now is another story. It was pricy with the extra warranty coverage from Lenovo.

What made me re think my future purchases with Lenovo is really build quality. It looked and felt great in the store. After several months of ownership, the hinge broke when I simply opened the laptop. This in turn, broke the touch screen which is part of the display. The mount is part of the display. The other hinge doesn't seem to feel any better. So I contact Lenovo, you know what they say. Sorry that your laptop broke but that is considered customer induced damage. We can fix it for you for $ X amount. If you would like to continue, let us know. I was like "how could a poor design be a customer's fault?" The answer was it just is. So I spent 900 for the laptop on sale. Another $140 for the 3 additional years of protection. I'm at $1,040 plus taxes. On top of this, Windows 11 on this i7-1165G7 doesn't feel smooth. My old work laptop which I still have was an 10th gen HP with 16 GB and ran Windows 10 pro. Felt more responsive and smoother than this laptop.

What bothered me the most was the fact that I decided to look at replacements. It was the first time I have given any consideration to a Mac book in my life. When I saw the prices and compared them to what I paid, I felt I would have had a different user experience. Mainly after owning now several different Apple products, I am realizing I am going to get better build quality for the money I would have spent otherwise. Would the specs be different, yes. I realize the 8 GB of RAM is not really the best. 265 GB of SSD on board storage is really nothing to write home about. However that also can be fixed with an external SSD. $100 later you have 4 or even 8 times the storage. Cloud uploading also helps in those spots too.

The irony in all of this was I really disliked Apple products in general. When I worked in wide format graphics. I had a couple of Apple customers who had a PC to run the RIP station but that was it. I could never remember how to install the .ppd to their computers for the printers since they were one of like 3 accounts. This work only happened like once a year. Even my boss was like I kind of remember how to do it as well. However, in all fairness, my boss was a very much Pro PC and Pro Android person. He really disliked Apple and on top of that, none of the software we needed ran on Apple. He freaked on me when I got my iPhone. He was like what the heck man. I saidwell if someone wants to face time us, I am willing to do it. He went out of his way to say that was not necessary. We will make our customer download an app in which we could video chat with them through our phone software system. There was only one if not 2 RIP engines that could run on Apple or even a Linux box. We would tell those customers they were on their own. The larger players all were PC only. However, with subscription models. SAi Flexi did start working on a Apple based designer software but not RIP. The other large player Onyx same thing. Both are not sub based so that might change. Many of the shops we dealt with had Macs for design work. But output was to a file service.

Getting back to the point, I am now looking at a Mac book for my next laptop. Personally I just want something that just works. If it was going to cost me a few hundred extra to have longevity and better design. I am for it. Does it download the software I need for home? Yes. I can add Office 365. Install Chrome or Firefox or even use the pre install Sarfari, sure. If it makes my life a little easier at home. Great.

 

[VirtualLarry]

What made me re think my future purchases with Lenovo is really build quality. It looked and felt great in the store. After several months of ownership, the hinge broke when I simply opened the laptop. This in turn, broke the touch screen which is part of the display. The mount is part of the display. The other hinge doesn't seem to feel any better. So I contact Lenovo, you know what they say. Sorry that your laptop broke but that is considered customer induced damage.

Hate to "break" it to you, but I've had a couple of consumer-line recent Lenovos "die" the same way. It's not just you.

 

[Oyeve]

Hate to "break" it to you, but I've had a couple of consumer-line recent Lenovos "die" the same way. It's not just you.

I just shipped my old gaming Lenovo 17 incher to my son as his mbp 2020 died and of course the geniuses can't six it. This Lenovo weighs 10lbs and has a 980m gtx. Solid and hard used for like 6 years. Still going sting and even has a builtin subwoofer. They do make good and bad like everyone.

 

[shaggy77]

I'm going with just junky engineering. The 14 inch Lenovo that my current employer issues is just fine in the hinge department. My thoughts are it has the same design. The problem is the screen on the 15.6 or 16 inch screen is much heavier. The point of failure is just quicker. Sadly and unfortunately, today's $1,000 price point things are considered throw away.

I had a 17 inch Toshiba once. I don't think it was a gamer build but it was set up. Unfortunately, the battery shorted out and took out the rest of the laptop. Since Toshiba left the market, we bought the Lenovo and it was like a rocket ship in comparison.

 

[Hulk]

I want to know what this mythical Android phone is that somehow still runs at the same performance level after 3 years of OS and software updates.

My wife and I owned several Android phones over the years, and they all eventually got slowed down by Android updates, carrier bloatware, and new software versions that required more RAM, Storage, and CPU power than the prior version.

Hell, even my Nexus 7 tablet started feeling sluggish after upgrading it to Android 6 from version 5.1, and that was a "pure" Android experience with no carrier bloatware installed.

My wife and I both have Pixel 2 phones. I don't know how many years old they are now but I do know the Pixel 7 just came out. I haven't noticed any slowdown when scrolling, opening apps, etc.. If I did I'd already have a new phone. It just works.

On the other hand my 14 year old daughter "had" to have an iPhone 12 Pro. Someone bumped her at school a month after she got it and it fell about 2 feet and the back glass cracked. Now the Apple store wants almost $500 to fix it. That's what I paid for my Pixel 2.

I can get it fixed without the Apple logo on the back for $250 but my daughter doesn't want a "fake" iPhone. Actually she wants an iPhone 14 even though it does nothing the 12 doesn't do. Or my old Pixel 2 for that matter.

I have hope that I can make her aware of Apple's deceptive marketing strategies. How they send out "updates" to slow down older phones, make them either unrepairable or make the repairs unbelievably expensive, make them easy to break on purpose. You know what? Her phone in tact is worth $400 on trade in and "recycle" with a broken back. Wow, I can recycle it and save the Earth! BTW, recycle means they simply take your phone. What a joke.

You can do that when you have a monopoly and good for them to be able to sucker people into parting with their hard earned money for their nonsense. I will educate my daughter eventually to understand the foolishness of Apple products but their indoctrination is strong so it may take some time.

 

[KMFJD]

It's just a tool that does a job.

I prefer my iPhone over all the Android phones I've used, the learning curve was a bit of a head-scratcher at first because i was so used to the way things are on windows and android.

I doubt I'd ever move my desktop to a Mac though, I am using a Macbook Air now because it was much better for me while travelling, there's a few things i miss but i can live with the limitations and I've found alternatives for most everything I've needed so far.

I'm also so tired of MS's need to continually re-invent stuff that works fine.

 

[Hulk]

It's just a tool that does a job.

I prefer my iPhone over all the Android phones I've used, the learning curve was a bit of a head-scratcher at first because i was so used to the way things are on windows and android.

I doubt I'd ever move my desktop to a Mac though, I am using a Macbook Air now because it was much better for me while travelling, there's a few things i miss but i can live with the limitations and I've found alternatives for most everything I've needed so far.

I'm also so tired of MS's need to continually re-invent stuff that works fine.

I could never imagine not building my own desktop computer. 30 years ago it required some know-how but today it's really plug'n play. I can purchase the exact components I need at great prices and upgrade whenever I feel the need.

But then again I'm an enthusiast. Many people don't have the desire or time for it.

 

[Oyeve]

Apples motto: "It just works"

Until it doesn't, then just buy a replacement because the "geniuses" cannot fix it because its all glued together. Oh, and don't forget when Apple determines your HW to be obsolete and refuses to even upgrade, update or even touch it.

 

[Commodus]

I have hope that I can make her aware of Apple's deceptive marketing strategies. How they send out "updates" to slow down older phones, make them either unrepairable or make the repairs unbelievably expensive, make them easy to break on purpose. You know what? Her phone in tact is worth $400 on trade in and "recycle" with a broken back. Wow, I can recycle it and save the Earth! BTW, recycle means they simply take your phone. What a joke.

You can do that when you have a monopoly and good for them to be able to sucker people into parting with their hard earned money for their nonsense. I will educate my daughter eventually to understand the foolishness of Apple products but their indoctrination is strong so it may take some time.

Please don't do that. It's not just that your daughter is a separate person who should have some freedom to decide what she likes, it's that your own beliefs aren't accurate.

Apple doesn't send out updates to purposefully make old phones slow; even the CPU throttling was meant to extend the lifespans of phones by preventing spontaneous shutdowns. The company's fault was the lack of transparency. Apple wasn't good about optimizing for older devices in the early days, but that was a long time ago — it's now good about maintaining performance even for the oldest supported devices. That and there's a touch of irony to complaining about updates and obsolescence when many Android OEMs still won't support a device for more than 2-3 years (even Google only commits to three major OS versions for Pixels).

Apple doesn't intentionally make easy-to-break devices, and it actually loses money on repairs (according to statements in earnings calls, anyway). Glass backs, for instance, are not there because they break — it's because they're much better for wireless charging and data reception than metal, and more eco-friendly than plastic. Remember: Google, Samsung and other vendors use glass backs, too.

Official phone trade-ins have never been about offering maximum value. Try trading in an iPhone 12 Pro at Samsung's website and you'll get $435 if it's in good shape. And yes, Apple does recycle phones it can't refurbish. It even developed machines dedicated to the process.

Your daughter does need to think critically about the products she uses... but she doesn't need parents imposing their own biases. I'm reminded of how my dad has long sworn by Dodge/Chrysler cars and insisted that other brands are trash; by my teenage years, I realized he was just letting preconceptions and stereotypes guide him, not the facts. If your daughter loves using Apple gear and understands the costs and concerns involved, she should be free to pursue that.

 

[Hulk]

Please don't do that. It's not just that your daughter is a separate person who should have some freedom to decide what she likes, it's that your own beliefs aren't accurate.

Apple doesn't send out updates to purposefully make old phones slow; even the CPU throttling was meant to extend the lifespans of phones by preventing spontaneous shutdowns. The company's fault was the lack of transparency. Apple wasn't good about optimizing for older devices in the early days, but that was a long time ago — it's now good about maintaining performance even for the oldest supported devices. That and there's a touch of irony to complaining about updates and obsolescence when many Android OEMs still won't support a device for more than 2-3 years (even Google only commits to three major OS versions for Pixels).

Apple doesn't intentionally make easy-to-break devices, and it actually loses money on repairs (according to statements in earnings calls, anyway). Glass backs, for instance, are not there because they break — it's because they're much better for wireless charging and data reception than metal, and more eco-friendly than plastic. Remember: Google, Samsung and other vendors use glass backs, too.

Official phone trade-ins have never been about offering maximum value. Try trading in an iPhone 12 Pro at Samsung's website and you'll get $435 if it's in good shape. And yes, Apple does recycle phones it can't refurbish. It even developed machines dedicated to the process.

Your daughter does need to think critically about the products she uses... but she doesn't need parents imposing their own biases. I'm reminded of how my dad has long sworn by Dodge/Chrysler cars and insisted that other brands are trash; by my teenage years, I realized he was just letting preconceptions and stereotypes guide him, not the facts. If your daughter loves using Apple gear and understands the costs and concerns involved, she should be free to pursue that.

Normally I'd let this go but there is so much misinformation in your post I have to respond. Hopefully I'm discussing with a 40+ year old and not wasting time trying to educate a kid who isn't ready to understand or has the life experience to comprehend.

First. Apple did slow down phones on purpose and they paid a $113 million settlement. We know why they settled.

Apple will pay $113 million to settle a 'batterygate' investigation into its practice of intentionally slowing down old iPhones

The $113 million payout is just the latest Apple has made after it admitted to slowing phones down to keep their old batteries from shutting them off.

www.businessinsider.com

Second, there have been numerous complaints about the iPhone 12 back glass breaking. It's a design meant to generate revenue. Recycling? Pa-lease that's a joke. If they were worried about recycling and the environment they wouldn't be trying to get people to update their phone every year. Like a 5g plastic back is going to make a dent in landfills.

Third, on top #1 and #2 charging $500 to replace the back is insanity. No way will I support a company with a business practice like that. Not even thinking about all of their other evil business practices that alone is enough to dump them forever.

This isn't bias. I am correct in my thinking. Your Dad had a bias. Dodge/Chrysler cars (and most American ones for that matter) were garbage through the '70's, '80's, and '90's. That's why they lost their world standing and have been struggling to compete with the Japanese, Europeans, and South Koreans to name a few ever since their fall from grace. They fell asleep at the wheel for 30 or 40 years. My Dad was just like yours in that respect.

Don't confuse sound logic with bias. I know it is near blasphemy to speak ill of Apple because there could be a zealot around any corner but I have the right at least to speak the truth about an evil Apple corporation while being ripped off.

Thank you and good night.