Apple vs. The World

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,684
2
126
#1
Just some technical observations from an old techy nerd. If I step on toes, I apologize, that’s not my intention, and I can be blunt.

My dearly deceased partner had an IMac when I met him, an incredibly expensive piece of crap. He didn’t know, Macs are the best. Everyone knew it.

It had a common defect that Apple refused to do a recall on. Hundreds of multi-colored lines were on the screen. It was usable, barely. It happened just after the warranty expired to him and many other people. The quoted repair would have been more than a new one. I get the game; make things virtually impossible to be fixed or upgraded by the consumer so they'd be dependent on a very aggressive pricing structure. And they'll keep coming back. From my point of view, Apple made crappy hardware, and often wouldn’t back it up. Do that to my sweetie? Expect some pushback. Others swear by the stuff.

When I moved in with a PC, it was all moot. I built my own; there were no worries about fixes and upgrades. The fixes were never needed (but could easily be accomplished at home), and I never needed to upgrade a unit since they were precisely customized from the start with my exact needs in mind plus experiential headroom, something you can only fuzzily aim at in the Apple world with limited models to choose from.

As we know, building a customized PC is actually quite easy (a Youtube video is all you need these days). I had to build a server on my job in ‘91 with no experience. “Put this in this slot” was basically all it was plus some screws and wires with keyed terminations. Easy. No rocket science degree needed.

Run out of hard drive space in an IMac? Get a whole new IMac! The new “Tiger” version of the OS bork your Photoshop installation, and re-installation doesn’t fix it? (I’ve heard similar complaints in computer forums ad nauseum about all Macs, not just the “I” variety.) A new Mac will take your troubles away! (for a while, “Sierra” is about to be released - pretty names for sometimes nightmares, but OS upgrades should be a breeze, shouldn't they? I can't wait to see what's new.) The inevitable slow-downs of more advanced software and intentional, programmed lagginess got you down? Make a trip to the Apple Store! They have just the slick, new, enticing thing! I could go on.

I always knew about Apple’s almost forced way of making people replace pretty, newish, very expensive hardware. The most repeated comment I've heard from IPhone users with pricey, just year old phones is, "Time for a new phone, this one is slowing down." They know people don't learn. Cha-ching!

Staying on phones, of course they all have limited software/data space when off the cloud. An IPhone with greater memory is only a few hundred greenbacks away, and then what do you do? Oh yeah, next year’s phone isn’t that far away. Not to brag, and my $50, three-year-old Android phone has a slot to add 128GB of more space. The memory cards are less than $50. The phone is as fast as day-one despite the OS updates. Imagine.

Apple is a closed space with only really one company in development. Not true of the PC world where also a lot of really great software is completely free, without ads. Many developers just want to share their ingenuity in a magnanimous way. I do my music writing on one such software. Imagine, truly free, amazing stuff. (I know this can be seen in the Apple world on a much more infrequent basis.)

In my opinion, after much observation from my nerdy eyes and brain, Apple makes slick, easy to use (initially), hardware and software that can suck, big time, and is apparently addictive. Heads banging into walls is no way to usher in advancement (again, in my opinion). PC’s are just as easy, as are Android phones, but they have less perceived prestige. I get the need.

I’m not out to change minds, denying another’s belief is never wanted, and Apple frustrations are totally avoidable and the alternative more frugal (remember that word?).

My two worthless cents.
 
Nov 30, 2004
51,872
481
126
#2
Apple is all marketing. I was playing with the boss' new iphone a few days ago. Near as I can tell, it doesn't even come with a file manager. How do you use a computer without a file manager?!

Can't say too much though. All the companies are getting into the locked down, you can use what we let you use, and you won't be replacing anything business model. It's especially bad with phones. They're all crap afaic. Android's only the best bad option. I don't especially like it
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,449
483
96
#3
This one of the reasons I use Linux and build my own systems. I see Windows 10s as an attempt by Microsoft to lock down and close the PC platform for most users, and to charge more money for those who don't want a locked down and close platform.
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,684
2
126
#4
This one of the reasons I use Linux and build my own systems. I see Windows 10s as an attempt by Microsoft to lock down and close the PC platform for most users, and to charge more money for those who don't want a locked down and close platform.
Something I wrote. My name is also Brad Smith:

...but there's something about names - Silicon Dust (the six tuners on the network, CableCard down a thick, fast pipe feeding the most killer media program, Windows Media Center [free in Windows up until 8, now discontinued and technically dying in 2023 with Win8 - damn you Brad Smith! https://news.microsoft.com/exec/brad-smith/ ], besides the TV, I can have TV playing in a little, resizable window on my desktop, which I don't do much anymore...
-----------------------------------
Windows 7 forever!
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,449
483
96
#5
One of the things I don't like about Apple is that do form over function instead of function over form. Seriously I'm not going to buy an Apple product because of this and the fact that MacOS has become a "Walled Garden" and a overpriced one at that.
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
28,836
53
106
#6
I think that there is one thing that we do not take into consideration. The Enthusiasts market is very very small as compare to General Population.

There are 20 Millions College/University Students in the USA. Go and Look at any of them you will see the 95% of the Students (and staff) carry MacBooks.

If you observe the post College people in the 20 and early 30 it similar.

I.e., Apple gears itself to what this segment of the population like. Smart.

On the other hand Microsoft knows the future of Windows is mainly in Enterprise so they do with consumers whatever comfortable to Microsoft.
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,684
2
126
#7
One of the things I don't like about Apple is that do form over function instead of function over form. Seriously I'm not going to buy an Apple product because of this and the fact that MacOS has become a "Walled Garden" and a overpriced one at that.
They are lookers. Looks matter most it seems to some. I can't fault them, the better things look, the bigger the ego boost. How that fits in the stark truth of ones and zeros is beyond me. Do I want a white standout 'puter on my dark desk, or something more understated that blends in with guts I can do surgery on if necessary?
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,684
2
126
#8
I think that there is one thing that we do not take into consideration. The Enthusiasts market is very very small as compare to General Population.

There are 20 Millions College/University Students in the USA. Go and Look at any of them you will see the 95% of the Students (and staff) carry MacBooks.

If you observe the post College people in the 20 and early 30 it similar.

I.e., Apple gears itself to what this segment of the population like. Smart.

On the other hand Microsoft knows the future of Windows is mainly in Enterprise so they do with consumers whatever comfortable to Microsoft.
I guess if they're in college or working there they have the bucks for a Mac habit. I always scrimp and save for things. And if it's not built for taking apart for the consumer (I had to gut an old Dell laptop to replace its loud fan. Dell freely provided instructions on the web.), I'd feel kind of like my computer is just a stone's throw from disaster with no way to recover, like my partner ended up being. Kind of like having a car whose headlight bulbs were not user replaceable.
 

rchunter

Senior member
Feb 26, 2015
931
23
91
#9
I used to buy apple computers in the 80's back when steve jobs was still alive but not anymore. I have an ipad air 2 only because i'm pretty much forced to with my Lumin streamer.
Apple is way too restrictive. Even the ram, ssd's, etc are hard soldered onto the motherboards. Much rather just build my own pc, pick my own case & parts.
 
Aug 25, 2001
43,608
539
126
#10
I've never been a big fan of Macs, past the venerable IIe and IIgs. (Which, technically, weren't even Macs, although they were Apples.)

They're too hip, stylish, and way too expensive, and pompous, for my tastes. That, and virtually un-repairable, which is like poison to a DIY techie.
 

urvile

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2017
1,575
1
96
#11
It's interesting apple are notorious for creating a closed ecosystem. Even to the point of using proprietary network protocols IIRC in their media player stuff. Then on the other hand they are a business.

I am not an american but I have attended two different universities in australia fairly recently and no one uses macs. Because the university either doesn't provide apple machines or provides a small number for a specific student group e.g. media students.

One university only used ubuntu linux in the labs. The other was a combination of PC and linux labs. The general university labs were windows PCs and one of the universities provided a handful of macs.

It might be a bit different in aus though. Because 95% of students put themselves through university and cannot afford any kind of laptop. Which is why some universities do things like give first years notepads for some courses. Also it's marketing. :p

Anyway. I got an iphone 8 through work and one of the things I noticed is how crap the camera is when compared to my s8+.
 

mrochester

Senior member
Aug 16, 2014
417
0
81
#12
Apple is all marketing. I was playing with the boss' new iphone a few days ago. Near as I can tell, it doesn't even come with a file manager. How do you use a computer without a file manager?!

Can't say too much though. All the companies are getting into the locked down, you can use what we let you use, and you won't be replacing anything business model. It's especially bad with phones. They're all crap afaic. Android's only the best bad option. I don't especially like it
The iPhone is a smartphone, not a computer.
 

mrochester

Senior member
Aug 16, 2014
417
0
81
#14
It's a computer. The form factor's irrelevant.
The form factor is very relevant. It’s why smartphones don’t have mice and unlike a PC use cloud services to move/sync content, not file managers.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
51,872
481
126
#15
The form factor is very relevant. It’s why smartphones don’t have mice and unlike a PC use cloud services to move/sync content, not file managers.
No, it's irrelevant. Stupid design decisions don't change the intrinsic nature of an item.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
51,872
481
126
#17
Nope, it’s relevent. I can assure you
I realize you're almost certainly a child, so you probably have no idea computers were once used without mice at all. A mouse is a computer peripheral, and is as relevent as a printer, or a usb hub in the definition of the computer.
 

mrochester

Senior member
Aug 16, 2014
417
0
81
#18
I realize you're almost certainly a child, so you probably have no idea computers were once used without mice at all. A mouse is a computer peripheral, and is as relevent as a printer, or a usb hub in the definition of the computer.
And you clearly don’t realise that different form factors require different features. Smartphones don’t require file managers, computers do.

No need for silly comments anyway, I’m just trying to help you understand.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
51,872
481
126
#19
No need for silly comments anyway, I’m just trying to help you understand.
No you aren't, you're trolling. Some people need to get work done with their computers, and they use them for more than "liking" facebook posts. It's a rare day I don't use a file manager on my phone, both internally, and external servers. Simple people can get by with simple devices. I require more.
 

mrochester

Senior member
Aug 16, 2014
417
0
81
#20
No you aren't, you're trolling. Some people need to get work done with their computers, and they use them for more than "liking" facebook posts. It's a rare day I don't use a file manager on my phone, both internally, and external servers. Simple people can get by with simple devices. I require more.
Sounds like you need to buy a computer for the job, not a smartphone.

Please stop with the trolling.

Enough.

You are adding nothing to this thread.

AT Mod Usandthem
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oct 18, 1999
20,775
73
126
#21
Sounds like you need to buy a computer for the job, not a smartphone.

Please stop with the trolling.
Dude, just redacted already. You sicken me. Its a computer, a dumb one at that for mostly dumb people like yourself. People who actually use

Personal attacks are not allowed here.
Report posts and let us handle it.

AT Mod Usandthem
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oct 20, 2017
137
0
41
#22
My fiends use iMac's cause they think they are cool for using one, i dont know, its the general behavior of the Apple users that really pisses me off, not the products itself. I'll be honest, its okay to use, not horrible but i do not have deep pockets unlike most of my friends so i rather buy something that i can easily service myself.
 
Last edited:

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
5
91
#23
Bought my first Mac (MBP, mid-tier i7) recently. It does exactly what I bought it to do. Run VM's, easily (more than Windows) configure and change my dev environment if needed, and do some light gaming. The display is amazing, it (as a whole) is super pretty to look at, which is a factor for me.

I would have gone Linux (and gotten something else just as thin and light while saving only a couple hundred dollars) but I have to plug into projectors that my previous *nix dual boot never got along with the way Windows and macOS do. And I tried a quite a few different distros. And no, I'm not going to bother to learn the inner workings of my display driver and manager so I can custom config it. I have a job to do.

Basically, your opinions are fine, but OP is the only one who realized that different people are, in fact, different. My needs dictated a powerful Apple laptop. When this one is due for replacement (hopefully not for a good while), I may not need a Mac again, but I might. I go where my needs take me, end of story. So for FFS, getting all hot and bothered over someone else's choices and needs makes a lot of you look so petty and small.
 

eikelbijter

Junior Member
Aug 27, 2009
17
2
81
#24
And you clearly don’t realise that different form factors require different features. Smartphones don’t require file managers, computers do.

No need for silly comments anyway, I’m just trying to help you understand.
Nonsense, it's not about "requiring", but trust me, I use the file manager on my Android pretty regularly. Just because Jobs decided you should NOT be able to use your phone as a hard drive, it doesn't mean the smarter segments of the population swallow the propaganda and roll over. It amuses me to no end when I see the mental gymnastics Apple users go through to justify the arbitrary limitations in their world...
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
5
91
#25
I like how you think your choice of smartphone OS makes you smarter than other people. It doesn't. Again, people's needs do not mirror your own.

Just for full disclosure, I rock a Pixel 2XL. I own both Solid Explorer and FX File Explorer (FX is the one currently installed). I use it about once a month. I'm glad for the option, but I can easily see how others wouldn't ever need one.
 


ASK THE COMMUNITY