Apple vs. The World

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eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
I like how you think your choice of smartphone OS makes you smarter than other people. It doesn't. Again, people's needs do not mirror your own.

Just for full disclosure, I rock a Pixel 2XL. I own both Solid Explorer and FX File Explorer (FX is the one currently installed). I use it about once a month. I'm glad for the option, but I can easily see how others wouldn't ever need one.
I never said my choice makes me smarter, I was born smarter than 99% of the population. How about this analogy: a car doesn't need windows that roll down, or a trunk, or a back seat, or more than 1 door, or a radio...…..
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
Nonsense, it's not about "requiring", but trust me, I use the file manager on my Android pretty regularly. Just because Jobs decided you should NOT be able to use your phone as a hard drive, it doesn't mean the smarter segments of the population swallow the propaganda and roll over. It amuses me to no end when I see the mental gymnastics Apple users go through to justify the arbitrary limitations in their world...

I don't understand how a rather easy-to-understand tradeoff between UX and capabilities amounts to "swallowing propaganda and rolling over". While I consider myself pretty comfortable with technology, I have no professional or personal need to use a file manager on my phone. There are certainly a few times that it would have made my life easier, but not often enough that I wished iOS was treated like a personal computing OS and needing to work with files like I do on a computer.

It's long been the case that Apple makes products that work well for most things that most people want to do, but they don't generally make products for the "edge cases" or "edge users".

So if you're doing server admin, excel modeling, enthusiast gaming, etc. etc. just use another platform. No need to turn purple in the face because some people prefer a simple and clean interface and are willing to trade some functionality for it.
 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
I don't understand how a rather easy-to-understand tradeoff between UX and capabilities amounts to "swallowing propaganda and rolling over". While I consider myself pretty comfortable with technology, I have no professional or personal need to use a file manager on my phone. There are certainly a few times that it would have made my life easier, but not often enough that I wished iOS was treated like a personal computing OS and needing to work with files like I do on a computer.

It's long been the case that Apple makes products that work well for most things that most people want to do, but they don't generally make products for the "edge cases" or "edge users".

So if you're doing server admin, excel modeling, enthusiast gaming, etc. etc. just use another platform. No need to turn purple in the face because some people prefer a simple and clean interface and are willing to trade some functionality for it.
"Turn purple"! I Love it!

R
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
I want to know what this mythical Android phone is that somehow still runs at the same performance level after 3 years of OS and software updates.

My wife and I owned several Android phones over the years, and they all eventually got slowed down by Android updates, carrier bloatware, and new software versions that required more RAM, Storage, and CPU power than the prior version.

Hell, even my Nexus 7 tablet started feeling sluggish after upgrading it to Android 6 from version 5.1, and that was a "pure" Android experience with no carrier bloatware installed.

Staying on phones, of course they all have limited software/data space when off the cloud. An IPhone with greater memory is only a few hundred greenbacks away, and then what do you do? Oh yeah, next year’s phone isn’t that far away. Not to brag, and my $50, three-year-old Android phone has a slot to add 128GB of more space. The memory cards are less than $50. The phone is as fast as day-one despite the OS updates. Imagine.


My two worthless cents.
 
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skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
217
28
91
I do not bother with this sort of stuff anymore. I do not buy into "ecosystems" or any other artificial attempt of a company to lock me in inside its own set of products.

I have an iPhone X which works far better for me than my Samsung Galaxy S8, not even a contest. As for computers, although macOS is great, I just prefer using Windows as it fits my needs better. Linux is something that does not work for me at all. And I can get along with this "mixture".
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
I do not bother with this sort of stuff anymore. I do not buy into "ecosystems" or any other artificial attempt of a company to lock me in inside its own set of products.

I have an iPhone X which works far better for me than my Samsung Galaxy S8, not even a contest. As for computers, although macOS is great, I just prefer using Windows as it fits my needs better. Linux is something that does not work for me at all. And I can get along with this "mixture".
This is mostly the norm. A subset of people care about all the silly 'ecosystem' stuff but for most people it's device specific.
Mostly if a person buys a phone, they are concerned with what software runs on that device and so care about which appstore (ecosystem) they'll use on it. Thats only logical. But for most that doesn't extend beyond the individual device, as if they have to revolve every tech decision around it.

Most mainstream devices work perfectly fine on the so-called 'opposite' platform that most people simply don't care to align themselves with a 'side' and fight silly battles over it.

Of course there are diehards, and there are some people who recieve terrible advice from diehards.

I've known plenty of people for example who are tech illiterate who get conned by salesmen who tell them 'oh no, if you're going to buy that MacBook you'll need the Airport and the iPhone and iMouse and the Homepod and the Apple-anointed backup drive etc etc ... when of course third party stuff works just fine.

The whole idea of an 'ecosystem' linking different devices being nessisary is a trick of marketing, not reality for the most part.
 

skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
217
28
91
This is mostly the norm. A subset of people care about all the silly 'ecosystem' stuff but for most people it's device specific.
Mostly if a person buys a phone, they are concerned with what software runs on that device and so care about which appstore (ecosystem) they'll use on it. Thats only logical. But for most that doesn't extend beyond the individual device, as if they have to revolve every tech decision around it.

Most mainstream devices work perfectly fine on the so-called 'opposite' platform that most people simply don't care to align themselves with a 'side' and fight silly battles over it.

Of course there are diehards, and there are some people who recieve terrible advice from diehards.

I've known plenty of people for example who are tech illiterate who get conned by salesmen who tell them 'oh no, if you're going to buy that MacBook you'll need the Airport and the iPhone and iMouse and the Homepod and the Apple-anointed backup drive etc etc ... when of course third party stuff works just fine.

The whole idea of an 'ecosystem' linking different devices being nessisary is a trick of marketing, not reality for the most part.

Exactly.

The ecosystem idea is great but it does not work in real life. I want to choose what the market offers me, and not what I “must” buy to be tied to a brand. If Dell or Lenovo or whatever is offering better laptops, why should I buy a MacBook? I am only attached to my personal feeling at the time I buy a product.

Maybe this will be one of the obstacles to the Internet of things. I will use a Windows computer with a MacBook, a Windows laptop, an iPad, a Galaxy, an iPhone, and I want them all to talk to each other. Then, in the future, I want a Samsung TV, an LG refrigerator, a Philips bulb, a Google Home, a Dell computer running Microsoft Windows, a Sony Playstation, an HP printer, and an Apple TV, all to run connected to a Motorola phone. How is that supposed to work at all? How is my home going to be connected if I choose devices from diferent makers?
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
1,570
96
Hasn't Apple been complaining recently that iPhone sales are down due to owners changing the battery instead of buying new phones? Why would anyone spend four figures on an item and replace it every year? I brought an El Cheapo phone in 2013 and I still have and use that phone in 2019!!! I haven't even change the battery yet.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Maybe this will be one of the obstacles to the Internet of things. I will use a Windows computer with a MacBook, a Windows laptop, an iPad, a Galaxy, an iPhone, and I want them all to talk to each other. Then, in the future, I want a Samsung TV, an LG refrigerator, a Philips bulb, a Google Home, a Dell computer running Microsoft Windows, a Sony Playstation, an HP printer, and an Apple TV, all to run connected to a Motorola phone. How is that supposed to work at all? How is my home going to be connected if I choose devices from different makers?
That's MOST people's reality.
They all need to simply follow industry standards, not proprietary brand-malarky.

Obviously there are individual device eco-systems people have to buy into. If you own an XBox then you're not compatible with the Playstation eco-system etc. But those devices will still work with any company's TV, and router, and IMO should work with everyone else's smart home devices, smartphones, periphs etc etc.

It's actually better for companies to make things that play well and connect with other company's devices than to try and pull their own forced proprietary schemes. In the long run, most consumers aren't going to buy things they already have over again to keep compatibility with some company's crap. Most (beyond diehards) will eventually settle into what makes the most sense for them, not for some company's bottom line.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
I noticed that with Apple's new product announcements, they're trying even harder to keep you in their ecosystem. I guess that they're getting annoyed by all of the screen time (and iTunes sales revenue) they're losing from Netflix and Amazon Prime, so now they are launching their own branded video streaming and gaming services.

And I'm sure they'll want you to pay for that service with your shiny new Apple branded credit card, as well :)
 

mrochester

Senior member
Aug 16, 2014
471
16
91
I never said my choice makes me smarter, I was born smarter than 99% of the population. How about this analogy: a car doesn't need windows that roll down, or a trunk, or a back seat, or more than 1 door, or a radio...…..

Your analogy doesn’t make sense. If someone never wound their car windows down it wouldn’t matter in the slightest if they bought a car with windows that didn’t wind down.

Its a bit like how I have never felt the need to use a file manager on my phone therefore it doesn’t matter in the slightest if my phone has no file manager.

And now that the iPhone does have a file manager, I still don’t use it.

Its a classic case of mistaking your needs for everyone’s needs.
 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
Your analogy doesn’t make sense. If someone never wound their car windows down it wouldn’t matter in the slightest if they bought a car with windows that didn’t wind down.

Its a bit like how I have never felt the need to use a file manager on my phone therefore it doesn’t matter in the slightest if my phone has no file manager.

And now that the iPhone does have a file manager, I still don’t use it.

Its a classic case of mistaking your needs for everyone’s needs.

So.....who in his or her right mind would, 2019, buy a car with windows that DON'T go down, even if he or she had never done it before?

And by the way, that file manager on iPhone you speak of is the typical mickey-moused-on crippled POS that Apple always comes up with when it has become clear how wrong their initial design was....

To each his own of course!
 

mrochester

Senior member
Aug 16, 2014
471
16
91
So.....who in his or her right mind would, 2019, buy a car with windows that DON'T go down, even if he or she had never done it before?

And by the way, that file manager on iPhone you speak of is the typical mickey-moused-on crippled POS that Apple always comes up with when it has become clear how wrong their initial design was....

To each his own of course!
Many people think they need something without actually spending a moment to work out whether they really do or not.
 

mrochester

Senior member
Aug 16, 2014
471
16
91
That's true.... advertising is the devil, keeping up with the joneses too...

Or just that there's already a better way to achieve something. I don't need a file manager when I can sync my content wirelessly from a cloud service or my computer. Much easier.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
I heard they canceled the charge pad.

Which I can understand, because making a good wireless charger is tough. I ended up getting a third-party Qi charge pad instead, and it kinda sucks. If you move the device just 1 friggin millimeter off of the sweet spot, your device stops charging and you end up with a dead device the next morning.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
45
91
Which I can understand, because making a good wireless charger is tough. I ended up getting a third-party Qi charge pad instead, and it kinda sucks. If you move the device just 1 friggin millimeter off of the sweet spot, your device stops charging and you end up with a dead device the next morning.
I like having Qi chargers around my place, but you're not wrong about the alignment problem. Apple's pad was going to have 25-30 coils in it to make sure that basically the whole pad was a sweet spot, and combating that much heat was the problem they couldn't overcome.
 

Steltek

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
3,048
757
136
I like having Qi chargers around my place, but you're not wrong about the alignment problem. Apple's pad was going to have 25-30 coils in it to make sure that basically the whole pad was a sweet spot, and combating that much heat was the problem they couldn't overcome.

My brother just bought a pair of iPhone 11's for his wife and daughter yesterday. He purchased a pair of Samsung wireless chargers for it -- turns out they work very well for the iPhone 11 so long as the case you choose isn't too thick (or if you don't have a credit card holder stuck on the back of the case like my niece figured out wouldn't let it charge at all). It also has a quiet fan in it for heat, I think.
 

Steltek

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
3,048
757
136
That sounds worse! Supporting Google’s anti-competitive, advertising business practices.

Apple and Google are two sides of the same coin - they both want to control the use of their products to our detriment. Apple's PC business would be a lot bigger if they didn't enforce such draconian provisions about what can and can't be done with their hardware. I'm not an Apple user, but I don't deny that the make some very nice stuff. Google tries to play up the "don't be evil" thing with the right hand while the left hand tries to do things behind the back that would make your mother blush.

Heck - my neighbor was angry to the point of almost frothing at the mouth the other day when his Sony TV (that he paid almost $3900 for) suddenly began serving him ads on the home screen - ads that can't be disabled. He spent hours on the phone with Sony support, who eventually told him "this is something Google did in Android (the TV interface is android-based) and can't be turned off". Of course, Sony claims complete innocence despite the fact that it their product and they allowed this to happen. He is now stuck with the TV because, strangely enough, the ads didn't happen to begin until a few days after his return period ended...

Turns out this smart TV ad thing is going to be a big deal in the future as all the big companies are looking to use them to datamine your arse. You might own the hardware, but the manufacturer owns the software running on it and will do with it whatever they can get away with.
 
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mrochester

Senior member
Aug 16, 2014
471
16
91
Apple and Google are two sides of the same coin - they both want to control the use of their products to our detriment. Apple's PC business would be a lot bigger if they didn't enforce such draconian provisions about what can and can't be done with their hardware. I'm not an Apple user, but I don't deny that the make some very nice stuff. Google tries to play up the "don't be evil" thing with the right hand while the left hand tries to do things behind the back that would make your mother blush.

Heck - my neighbor was angry to the point of almost frothing at the mouth the other day when his Sony TV (that he paid almost $3900 for) suddenly began serving him ads on the home screen - ads that can't be disabled. He spent hours on the phone with Sony support, who eventually told him "this is something Google did in Android (the TV interface is android-based) and can't be turned off". Of course, Sony claims complete innocence despite the fact that it their product and they allowed this to happen. He is now stuck with the TV because, strangely enough, the ads didn't happen to begin until a few days after his return period ended...

Turns out this smart TV ad thing is going to be a big deal in the future as all the big companies are looking to use them to datamine your arse. You might own the hardware, but the manufacturer owns the software running on it and will do with it whatever they can get away with.
I’d say data mining to accurately predict user behaviour and exploiting that for commercial purposes is MUCH more damaging and dangerous that anything Apple does. Google is a complete black box with very little accountability to consumers.
 
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TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
45
91
Apple and Google are two sides of the same coin - they both want to control the use of their products to our detriment. Apple's PC business would be a lot bigger if they didn't enforce such draconian provisions about what can and can't be done with their hardware. I'm not an Apple user, but I don't deny that the make some very nice stuff. Google tries to play up the "don't be evil" thing with the right hand while the left hand tries to do things behind the back that would make your mother blush.

Heck - my neighbor was angry to the point of almost frothing at the mouth the other day when his Sony TV (that he paid almost $3900 for) suddenly began serving him ads on the home screen - ads that can't be disabled. He spent hours on the phone with Sony support, who eventually told him "this is something Google did in Android (the TV interface is android-based) and can't be turned off". Of course, Sony claims complete innocence despite the fact that it their product and they allowed this to happen. He is now stuck with the TV because, strangely enough, the ads didn't happen to begin until a few days after his return period ended...

Turns out this smart TV ad thing is going to be a big deal in the future as all the big companies are looking to use them to datamine your arse. You might own the hardware, but the manufacturer owns the software running on it and will do with it whatever they can get away with.
This is why I have an AppleTV serving up all the content to my 'smart'TV since I don't trust it to actually be smart. And it would be a Roku, or FireTV, or nVidia Shield if I didn't have so much content through iTunes. Basically, I wouldn't ever let a SmartTV connect to the internet; it's an attack vector (same with most IoT devices, which is why if I can't run them through HomeKit, I don't run them), and the ad thing.