Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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M5 Family discussion here:

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[Eug]

 

[Doug S]

Do we have even the slightest confidence that this means what the poster thinks it means? ie that the model is actually running on the CPU rather than on ANE?

If the claims are true the only way they seem to me possible is if on A19 they are being run on SME, whereas on A18 they were being run on NEON.
At which point (if true) you kinda lose ALL confidence that the people creating or running these benchmarks have the faintest clue what they are doing...

A18 had SME also, why would only A19 show those huge gains?

Though I already have very little confidence in any AI related benchmarks. There are so many gotchas about what datatypes are used, where on the SoC it is running, which platforms it is or is not optimized for, etc.

 

[mvprod123]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1977376249086407108

 

[Eug]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1977376249086407108

1. Heh, Vision Pro again. I don't know a single person who actually cares about Vision Pro, but I guess it will serve as a useful prototype for their Apple augmented reality glasses project development.

2. I know Apple has done this before, but I always found it a bit odd that Apple would release the base MacBook Pro before the higher end MacBook Pros. However, I guess it makes sense since that base MacBook Pro may be a bigger seller in terms of volume. A tonne of people who buy the MacBook Pro buy it for the upgraded features over the Air (eg. ports*, screen, battery life, and previously display support*), but don't actually care that much about the upgraded performance in the higher end models. For example, the non-Pro MacBook Pro is extremely popular with business professionals.

---

*Speaking of ports and display support, in case you're thinking of buying a new M5 MacBook Pro: I just ordered an LG 6K 31.5" monitor, but then learned that Apple has a bug with LG panel based 6K 6144x3456 displays (Dell, Kuycon, and ?LG) that prevents Thunderbolt 4 / DisplayPort 1.4 Macs from using DSC, meaning that 6K is provided at 4:2:2 not 4:4:4, causing text to look like ass. Works fine over TB4/DP1.4 with DSC on 6K 6016x3384 displays (eg. Apple Pro Display XDR, Asus). It's not a bandwidth issue considering the negligible difference in bandwidth between 6144x3456 and 6016x3384, but an Apple compatibility glitch.

Using Thunderbolt 5 / Display 2.1 would bypass the issue, but I'm guessing the new M5 MacBook Pro won't get TB5/DP2.1. Same goes for the M5 MacBook Air next year. This concerns me as I have an M4 Mac mini with TB4/DP1.4. The good news for us M4 Mac mini and for M4 MacBook Pro owners is that HDMI 2.1 should work fine. The M4 MacBook Air doesn't even have an HDMI port, but would full HDMI 2.1 bandwidth work through an HDMI dongle?

 

[ashFTW]

Heh, Vision Pro again. I don't know a single person who actually cares about Vision Pro, but I guess it will serve as a useful prototype for their Apple augmented reality glasses project development.

I love mine but I’m not looking to upgrade.

 

[name99]

A18 had SME also, why would only A19 show those huge gains?

Though I already have very little confidence in any AI related benchmarks. There are so many gotchas about what datatypes are used, where on the SoC it is running, which platforms it is or is not optimized for, etc.

Because an incompetent organization, one that's essentially purely Android focussed, would not think to set the compiler flags appropriately until Android also provided SME?

 

[mvprod123]

M5 To Reportedly Be Announced This Week, But New Update Says The Chipset Will Be Fabricated On TSMC’s 3nm ‘N3E’ Process, Not N3P

A small update concerning the M5 before its official announcement is that the Apple Silicon will be made on TSMC’s older 3nm ‘N3E’ process

wccftech.com

This is surprising, but it could be true, considering that Apple has not increased the P-core clock speed. It also explains why the M5 Pro/Max/Ultra has been postponed until 2026.

 

[poke01]

M5 To Reportedly Be Announced This Week, But New Update Says The Chipset Will Be Fabricated On TSMC’s 3nm ‘N3E’ Process, Not N3P

A small update concerning the M5 before its official announcement is that the Apple Silicon will be made on TSMC’s older 3nm ‘N3E’ process

wccftech.com

This is surprising, but it could be true, considering that Apple has not increased the P-core clock speed. It also explains why the M5 Pro/Max/Ultra has been postponed until 2026.

M5 has a different identifier and codename. It’s most likely is based on N3P.

 

[adroc_thurston]

M5 has a different identifier and codename. It’s most likely is based on N3P.

They're always based on whatever's the latest node available.

 

[Eug]

New Pro Display XDR coming. Maybe a hint for a new Mac Pro too?

Upgraded Pro Display XDR with webcam hinted at in macOS 26.1 beta 3 | AppleInsider

Apple could finally be nearing an update to its 2019 Pro Display XDR, and while rumors are basically non-existent, new code in macOS Tahoe suggests a built-in webcam could be coming.

appleinsider.com

 

[Doug S]

New Pro Display XDR coming. Maybe a hint for a new Mac Pro too?

Upgraded Pro Display XDR with webcam hinted at in macOS 26.1 beta 3 | AppleInsider

Apple could finally be nearing an update to its 2019 Pro Display XDR, and while rumors are basically non-existent, new code in macOS Tahoe suggests a built-in webcam could be coming.

appleinsider.com

Maybe higher resolution if they're going to TB 5?

Some of it might be that they're running out of whatever iPhone chip the old one used lol

 

[mvprod123]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1978172574782665062

 

[The Hardcard]

Bold claim about iPhone.

 

[Eug]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1978172574782665062

The port configuration is MacBook Pro, so M5 MacBook Pro.

 

[Eug]

Maybe higher resolution if they're going to TB 5?

Some of it might be that they're running out of whatever iPhone chip the old one used lol

Higher resolution? You mean like 8K 60 Hz, and if so, at what size? If Apple wanted to stick to its usual 2X scaling, it'd ideally be around 40", which seems unlikely to me at this time. Also, macOS doesn't support 3X scaling AFAIK. (Well, not yet anyway, but iOS already does.) If they stuck with 32" at 8K, then that would suggest non-integer scaling.

Is there a 6K 120 Hz panel out there? Cuz that would work with both Thunderbolt 5 / DisplayPort 2.1 and HDMI 2.1 with DSC, and even could work with Thunderbolt 4 / DisplayPort 1.4 with DSC. It appears DisplayPort 2.1 without DSC does NOT have quite enough bandwidth for 6K 120 Hz, although it's pretty close, and Apple has been known to use non-standard methods to achieve what they want in terms of video output.

However, if there really is an update to the Pro Display XDR coming, it may just get a faster SoC as you suggest, maybe a FaceTime camera, and higher density mini-LED. (The current Pro Display XDR isn't quite mini-LED). Or else pipe dream: tandem OLED?

In the meantime, I'm just hoping the new crop of 6K 60 Hz monitors don't suck.

 

[jdubs03]

Higher resolution? You mean like 8K 60 Hz, and if so, at what size? If Apple wanted to stick to its usual 2X scaling, it'd ideally be around 40", which seems unlikely to me at this time. Also, macOS doesn't support 3X scaling AFAIK. (Well, not yet anyway, but iOS already does.) If they stuck with 32" at 8K, then that would suggest non-integer scaling.

Is there a 6K 120 Hz panel out there? Cuz that would work with both Thunderbolt 5 / DisplayPort 2.1 and HDMI 2.1 with DSC, and even could work with Thunderbolt 4 / DisplayPort 1.4 with DSC. It appears DisplayPort 2.1 without DSC does NOT have quite enough bandwidth for 6K 120 Hz, although it's pretty close, and Apple has been known to use non-standard methods to achieve what they want in terms of video output.

However, if there really is an update to the Pro Display XDR coming, it may just get a faster SoC as you suggest, maybe a FaceTime camera, and higher density mini-LED. (The current Pro Display XDR isn't quite mini-LED). Or else pipe dream: tandem OLED?

In the meantime, I'm just hoping the new crop of 6K 60 Hz monitors don't suck.

I was hoping that new LG Ultrafine 6K monitor was 120 Hz but alas it’s not.
If Apple wanted to get one over on them though they could do 120 Hz, but I’m doubtful, but then again if you’re paying $4000 plus then it should be.

 

[Doug S]

Is there a 6K 120 Hz panel out there? Cuz that would work with both Thunderbolt 5 / DisplayPort 2.1 and HDMI 2.1 with DSC, and even could work with Thunderbolt 4 / DisplayPort 1.4 with DSC. It appears DisplayPort 2.1 without DSC does NOT have quite enough bandwidth for 6K 120 Hz, although it's pretty close, and Apple has been known to use non-standard methods to achieve what they want in terms of video output.

If they want higher resolution they'd support it via TB 5, which has that asymmetric 120/40 mode. That's almost enough to do 8Kp120 without DSC! I doubt we see them going that far though, unless they add a new level above the Pro Display XDR.

 

[mvprod123]

Apple unleashes M5, the next big leap in AI performance for Apple silicon

Apple today announced M5, delivering advances to every aspect of the chip and the next big leap in AI.

www.apple.com

 

[Eug]

M5 iPad Pro
C1X
12 GB RAM

Apple introduces the powerful new iPad Pro with the M5 chip

Apple today introduced the new iPad Pro with M5, delivering a huge boost in performance and taking the next big leap in AI for iPad.

www.apple.com

Featuring a next-generation GPU with a Neural Accelerator in each core, M5 delivers a big boost in performance for iPad Pro users, whether they’re working on cutting-edge projects or tapping into AI for productivity. The new iPad Pro delivers up to 3.5x the AI performance than iPad Pro with M4 and up to 5.6x faster than iPad Pro with M1. N1, the new Apple-designed wireless networking chip, enables the latest generation of wireless technologies with support for Wi-Fi 7 on iPad Pro.

Next-Level Performance with M5​

The M5 chip brings next-level performance, with a significant boost to graphics performance and a faster CPU. Incorporating a third-generation ray-tracing engine enabling more realistic lighting, reflections, and shadows — M5 is ideal for visually intensive applications and gaming — iPad Pro has up to 1.5x faster 3D rendering with ray tracing than the previous-generation iPad Pro, and up to a whopping 6.7x faster rendering performance than iPad Pro with M1. M5 has up to a 10-core CPU, with four performance cores and six efficiency cores, and is the world’s fastest CPU core. The faster CPU is perfect for a range of users, including graphic designers working with complex vector graphics in apps like Adobe Illustrator, architects who routinely multitask across apps like SketchUp and Morpholio Trace, and business users who need to quickly launch and access large files across multiple apps.
iPad Pro with M5 delivers:

• Up to 6.7x faster 3D rendering with ray tracing in Octane X when compared to iPad Pro with M1,2 and up to 1.5x faster than iPad Pro with M4.
• Up to 6x faster video transcode performance in Final Cut Pro for iPad when compared to iPad Pro with M1, and up to 1.2x faster than iPad Pro with M4.
• Up to 4x faster AI image generation performance in Draw Things for iPad when compared to iPad Pro with M1, and up to 2x faster than iPad Pro with M4.
• Up to 3.7x faster AI video upscaling performance in DaVinci Resolve for iPad when compared to iPad Pro with M1, and up to 2.3x faster than iPad Pro with M4.

Faster Memory Bandwidth and Storage for More Seamless Multitasking​

iPad Pro brings new enhancements to accelerate overall speed and responsiveness, including an increase in unified memory bandwidth, faster storage read and write speeds, more starting unified memory, and fast charge support. With over 150GB/s of unified memory bandwidth — a nearly 30 percent increase compared to the previous generation — the new iPad Pro helps users multitask across more apps, process AI models faster, play demanding games, and more. The new iPad Pro offers up to 2x faster storage read and write speeds, and the 256GB and 512GB models start with 12GB of unified memory — 50 percent more than before, bringing even more value.

 

[mvprod123]

Apple unleashes M5, the next big leap in AI performance for Apple silicon

Apple today announced M5, delivering advances to every aspect of the chip and the next big leap in AI.

www.apple.com

"Apple today announced M5, delivering the next big leap in AI performance and advances to nearly every aspect of the chip. Built using third-generation 3-nanometer technology, M5 introduces a next-generation 10-core GPU architecture with a Neural Accelerator in each core, enabling GPU-based AI workloads to run dramatically faster, with over 4x the peak GPU compute performance compared to M4.1 The GPU also offers enhanced graphics capabilities and third-generation ray tracing that combined deliver a graphics performance that is up to 45 percent higher than M4.1 M5 features the world’s fastest performance core, with up to a 10-core CPU made up of six efficiency cores and up to four performance cores.2 Together, they deliver up to 15 percent faster multithreaded performance over M4.1 M5 also features an improved 16-core Neural Engine, a powerful media engine, and a nearly 30 percent increase in unified memory bandwidth to 153GB/s.1 M5 brings its industry-leading power-efficient performance to the new 14-inch MacBook Pro, iPad Pro, and Apple Vision Pro, allowing each device to excel in its own way. All are available for pre-order today."

 

[mvprod123]

GPU:

"The next-generation GPU and enhanced shader cores in M5 also deliver increased graphics performance, achieving up to 30 percent faster performance compared to M4 and up to 2.5x faster performance than M1.1 M5 also includes Apple’s third-generation ray-tracing engine, providing up to a 45 percent graphics uplift in apps using ray tracing.1 Combined with rearchitected second-generation dynamic caching, the GPU provides smoother gameplay, more realistic visuals in 3D applications, and faster rendering times for complex graphics projects and other visually intensive applications. With M5, Apple Vision Pro renders 10 percent more pixels with the micro-OLED displays, and refresh rates increase up to 120Hz, resulting in crisper details, more fluid display performance, and reduced motion blur.
The GPU architecture is engineered for seamless integration with Apple’s software frameworks. Applications using built-in Apple frameworks and APIs — like Core ML, Metal Performance Shaders, and Metal 4 — can automatically see immediate increases in performance. Developers can also build solutions for their apps by directly programming the Neural Accelerators using Tensor APIs in Metal 4."

 

[Eug]

Interesting:

The new iPad Pro adds the ability to drive external displays at up to 120Hz — ideal for creative workflows like video editing as well as gaming. And for users with a 120Hz external display, iPad Pro also brings new support for Adaptive Sync, which provides the lowest possible latency in external display performance, resulting in smoother motion and fewer perceived glitches, useful for low-latency use cases like gaming.

This appears to be new to the M5 as there is no mention of 120 Hz monitor support with the M4 iPad Pro. However, this is at 4K. It's still listed at 60 Hz at 6K... but there are no 120 Hz 6K monitors anyway.

 

[mvprod123]

M5 MacBook Pro

Apple unveils new 14‑inch MacBook Pro powered by the M5 chip

Apple today unveiled a new 14-inch MacBook Pro, featuring the incredibly powerful M5 chip.

www.apple.com

14-inch MacBook Pro with M5 delivers:

• Up to 7.7x faster AI video-enhancing performance in Topaz Video when compared to the 13‑inch MacBook Pro with M1, and up to 1.8x faster than the 14-inch MacBook Pro with M4.

• Up to 6.8x faster 3D rendering in Blender when compared to the 13‑inch MacBook Pro with M1, and up to 1.7x faster than the 14-inch MacBook Pro with M4.

• Up to 3.2x higher frame rates in games when compared to the 13-inch MacBook Pro with M1,3 and up to 1.6x faster than the 14-inch MacBook Pro with M4.

• Up to 2.1x faster build performance when compiling code in Xcode when compared to the 13‑inch MacBook Pro with M1, and up to 1.2x faster than the 14-inch MacBook Pro with M4.

 

[mvprod123]

 

[Eug]

If they want higher resolution they'd support it via TB 5, which has that asymmetric 120/40 mode. That's almost enough to do 8Kp120 without DSC! I doubt we see them going that far though, unless they add a new level above the Pro Display XDR.

FWIW, as expected the new M5 MacBook Pro still only comes with Thunderbolt 4. Also, while the iPad Pro M5 can support 120 Hz now, it's only at 4K, not 6K. The iPad Pro is USB 4 / Thunderbolt 3.

IOW, the new iPad Pro and new MacBook Pro are mostly simple SoC spec bumps. I'm glad I went all in with the M4 last year and this year - a Mac mini, an iPad Pro, and (for the wife) a MacBook Air.