Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[mvprod123]

lol

https://twitter.com/x/status/1978460785698590992

 

[mvprod123]

Once again, Apple did not show die shot (

 

[Nothingness]

View attachment 132070

Everything else being equal (which is far from sure), that'd mean 20% faster (MT) CPU.

 

[StinkyPinky]

lol

https://twitter.com/x/status/1978460785698590992

That has to be a joke. The EU will destroy them if they tried that.

 

[jpiniero]

That has to be a joke. The EU will destroy them if they tried that.

If anything the EU probably wants them to do that.

 

[Nothingness]

If anything the EU probably wants them to do that.

Indeed. Interestingly UK is the same as the rest of Europe: no charger.

 

[coercitiv]

If anything the EU probably wants them to do that.

Except they might want the change to reflect on the price tag as well.

 

[StinkyPinky]

If anything the EU probably wants them to do that.

I dunno, everyone has phone chargers lying around. I'd say a lot of people don't have laptop chargers lying around.

 

[Eug]

I dunno, everyone has phone chargers lying around. I'd say a lot of people don't have laptop chargers lying around.

The laptop charger is a USB-C charger. The standard MacBook Air charger is only 30 W, which is the same as current phone chargers. For my wife's M4 MacBook Air, I just got the upgrade from the 30 W to the dual 35 W, and it's fine.

It's true though that the M4 MacBook Pro did come with a much larger charger though, and to be honest, I'm surprised they left out the charger for the Pros. I thought they might start with the MacBook Air first.

 

[poke01]

it comes with a charger in Australia and in Asia.

So only Europe huh

 

[poke01]

the m5 GPU is really good. Looking forward to third party tests. A 35% increase in performance over last gen with no core increase.

Games and apps may go even higher

 

[DavidC1]

No mention of ST performance means it's again a small improvement.

 

[mvprod123]

the m5 GPU is really good. Looking forward to third party tests. A 35% increase in performance over last gen with no core increase.

Games and apps may go even higher

I think the improvement is even greater than 35%, considering how modest Apple was during the presentation when talking about the A19 Pro. Geekerwan's review proves this.

 

[mvprod123]

The improvement in RT is impressive. I wonder if the M5 Max will be able to catch up with the 5090 laptop?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1978465591515025856

 

[mvprod123]

No mention of ST performance means it's again a small improvement.

The same as in the A19 Pro. But Apple has kept the same clock speed, which is the result of increased IPC.

 

[mvprod123]

That has to be a joke. The EU will destroy them if they tried that.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1978496063741780032

 

[coercitiv]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1978496063741780032

That's only half the truth though, and quite a different perspective once you understand the aim of the law.

 

[johnsonwax]

That's only half the truth though, and quite a different perspective once you understand the aim of the law.

You're overlooking the EUs ongoing campaign against Apple on these matters. Apple has come out repeatedly and said 'these laws are ambiguous and you keep ruling against our interpretation'. So they took the most conservative interpretation and will PR their way out of this.

 

[mmaenpaa]

Except they might want the change to reflect on the price tag as well.

I bought 5 IPhone 11 64GB phones 11/2020 (same order, different colors). 3 came with chargers and 2 without.

And of course the price was the same for all.

Guess who pocketed cost of the charger? Reseller or Apple 😅

no charger -> slimmer retail box & less weight -> logistics cheaper & no charger cost -> profit 😁

 

[johnsonwax]

Apple clearly recognizing the real enemy now - us M1 owners that are still thrilled with our devices and not feeling an impending need to upgrade. I had originally planned on upgrading my M1 Max with an M4, and when M4 came out decided it was fine. I'm a few months out of the M5 Max and still not sure I'll jump or wait for the M6 Max. These machines are just too good. My A12X iPad Pro has seen better days, and it's ready for a replacement though.

 

[coercitiv]

It's true though that the M4 MacBook Pro did come with a much larger charger though, and to be honest, I'm surprised they left out the charger for the Pros. I thought they might start with the MacBook Air first.

For the Air I definitely would not expect them to bundle a charger anymore. For the 70W charger on the Pro it's a bit weird, but I guess they don't want people to compare prices of the product with and without charger (my understanding is they are obliged to offer EU customers the choice without a charger). I know 45W chargers are very inexpensive nowadays, I bought a couple for the laptops in the house for $17 from Ikea (in the EU, VAT included, decent quality units). For a 65W charger the price goes up to $30-40 depending on brand and features (paid $28 for a Samsung one on sale).

Overall we all tend to react emotionally to such a change, as if someone is robbing us of those very valuable hardware. This was my initial reaction too. Then I remembered the time when I was a Dell customer and I had 4+ perfectly good proprietary chargers in storage because I kept getting new ones with new laptops.

You're overlooking the EUs ongoing campaign against Apple on these matters. Apple has come out repeatedly and said 'these laws are ambiguous and you keep ruling against our interpretation'. So they took the most conservative interpretation and will PR their way out of this.

What am I overlooking? I quoted from the directive guidance. Moreover, as others have already mentioned, they're apparently doing the same in the UK, which is no longer part of the EU. Do you think Apple found Brexit ambiguous too?

 

[johnsonwax]

I bought 5 IPhone 11 64GB phones 11/2020 (same order, different colors). 3 came with chargers and 2 without.

And of course the price was the same for all.

Guess who pocketed cost of the charger? Reseller or Apple 😅

no charger -> slimmer retail box & less weight -> logistics cheaper & no charger cost -> profit 😁

Also more inventory per store, lower lifecycle emissions.

I know for a fact that one of Apples motivations for the first Mac Mini back in 2005 was store logistics. Apple doesn't have warehouses. They ship air freight directly to stores, and the stores are the warehouses. In that system box size/weight is extremely important. Their savings in logistics was high enough to pay for the difference in a 2.5" drive over a 3.5" drive of the same capacity, which was critical to make the product work. This was also the era where Apple was transitioning from physical to digital media to remove the need for floor space for it.

If we want companies to go net zero emissions (which Apple has long committed to, to the point of hiring Obamas EPA chief - not a small paycheck, not a person without their own public profit), you can't also blame them for doing emission reductions for profit reasons. Every charger they don't ship is an emission reduction - not just in the marginal emission to ship x grams of charger, but also the production of the charger itself. I don't know how other companies sweat those details, but I do know that Apple does. They have so few products and they are so overpowered when it comes to logistics that they know this kind of stuff and can control for it. That doesn't mean their environmental message isn't also self-serving - it's good PR in and of itself - but if your standard is that every environmental win needs to be a capitalism win as well, you aren't going to get many environmental wins.

 

[johnsonwax]

What am I overlooking? I quoted from the directive guidance. Moreover, as others have already mentioned, they're apparently doing the same in the UK, which is no longer part of the EU. Do you think Apple found Brexit ambiguous too?

You're overlooking the meaning of 'can' vs 'must'. Apple can include it. They aren't required to include it. The question is whether a laptop is 'radio equipment' which is the kind of stuff Apple has been punished for by the EU, because I think the aim of the law is ambiguous. There is a very apparent motive that the EU are using these laws to try and rebuild the European electronics production market. That's more obvious in their interpretations of device features than in the charger law.

Apple doesn't find Brexit ambiguous - Apple works in regions, and the US is in the same region as the EU, and they get the same treatment as the EU. It's that simple. Apples regions > the definition of the EU inside of Apple. That's true for every company, by the way. Are Australia and NZ different countries? Good luck convincing any corporation of that.

 

[Jan Olšan]

lol

https://twitter.com/x/status/1978460785698590992

I wouldn't bash this. It makes sense in phones at least. In laptops, it's probably much rarer to be in a situation where you already have an unused charger, but in principle it can happen. It seems they did drop the price a bit, though of course the big long-term strategy probably intends to improve margins on this.

Perhaps Apple fans that must buy everything to help the company but don't use all those devices at the same time Or obviously for the cases where your previous Apple notebook broke, for whatever reason.

Edit: Also, this opens you the possibility to just not rely on Apple's chargers at alĺ, perhaps you can save money by getting something else.

 

[johnsonwax]

Here's my question on the M5 - how did they go from 120GB/s to 153GB/s memory bandwidth from the M4 to the M5?