Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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M5 Family discussion here:

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[poke01]

The funny thing is, if AMD made sold phones with iOS and sold 17 million in China alone. He would change his tune.

Just ignore him, he’s very biased towards anything not AMD.

 

[mvprod123]

Apple’s M5 Pro, M5 Max To Offer Better Heat Dissipation And Low Resistance By Switching From InFO Packaging To 2.5D, Which Also Reduces Defected Chips Rate

The M5 Pro and M5 Max will take a different direction this year, with Apple ditching TSMC’s InFO packaging and moving to 2.5D design

wccftech.com

 

[fastandfurious6]

I want more cpu power in phones because JavaScript

Ok javascript but for what exactly? To load the anandtech forum javascript scripts by 0.5s faster? To load Instagram? To load Candy Crush Saga?

Give me a real purpose! Just one

Just ignore him, he’s very biased towards anything not AMD.

CRAZY allegations! Why do you think I'm anti-apple? I'm openly saying apple silicon is fantastic hardware and M6 will be very strong and possibly #1

 

[poke01]

Ok javascript but for what exactly? To load the anandtech forum javascript scripts by 0.5s faster? To load Instagram? To load Candy Crush Saga?

Give me a real purpose! Just one

Yes all the above.

CRAZY allegations! Why do you think I'm anti-apple? I'm openly saying apple silicon is fantastic hardware and M6 will be very strong and possibly #1

I’m not saying your anti-Apple, you are just very biased and don’t accept others use cases. It’s very narrow path of world view.

 

[oak8292]

Ok javascript but for what exactly? To load the anandtech forum javascript scripts by 0.5s faster? To load Instagram? To load Candy Crush Saga?

Give me a real purpose! Just one

Battery life. Race to completion. iPhone 16e gives three to five days on a charge with A18 and C1 modem primarily as a phone.

I don’t use my phone for game play, social media and banking but those are real strong use cases for a lot of people. Updates are important for security when used for banking. The number of people in the public eye engrossed in their smartphones is legion. Newer/faster processors give longer battery life.

I think your use case is a minority opinion.

Here is a brand new article on why people might switch to iPhone and why governments may mandate longer support cycles.

• Almost one-third (more than 30%) still use Android 13 or earlier—versions released in 2022 or before.
• That’s one billion devices left adrift, unable to receive critical security updates from Google.

Shocking: 1 Billion Android Users at Risk—Is Your Phone Already Outdated? - Talk Android

Buckle up, Android users: your beloved phone—yes, the device you cradle more gently than a newborn kitten—might already be yesterday’s news. A recent

www.talkandroid.com

• The EU's new "Ecodesign Regulation" is impacting smartphone makers, pushing OEMs to support devices and consumers for longer.
• Per the new rules, Android devices are to receive a minimum of five years of OS and security updates after "the end of sales."

Phones in the EU are set to see new, updated policies for software upgrades

For the sake of the consumer, the EU wants Android makers to support consumers for longer.

www.androidcentral.com

 

[fastandfurious6]

Sorry, all above is still nonsense. You are definitely apple fanboys who prop APPL up in a reputable hardware forum. No valid answer to the question "why need even power CPU power on phone". All I got until now:

1) Reasons to keep upgrading apple silicon on iphones:
- bettery battery buttery life
- ?

Can't accept "load instagram and candy crush saga 0.2s faster" as a valid reason

2) Reasons to buy iphone (vs android), until now:
- Status symbol
- Personal familiarity with iOS (don't know android)
- ?

3) ?

 

[Mopetar]

No one has ever been able to provide me with what I think is a convincing answer to the question of why they need a smartphone. Therefore everyone else on the planet is wrong and Apple, Samsung, and everyone else should just stop manufacturing those devices.

/thread

 

[poke01]

why need even power CPU power on phone". All I got until now:

Why don’t we need more cpu power in a phone?
The same exact CPU cores are used in Macs.

You are definitely apple fanboys who prop APPL up in a reputable hardware forum

I will never take the opinion of someone saying seriously that when they have a Lisa Su picture. You worship corporate and that’s a big turn off

 

[jdubs03]

Sorry, all above is still nonsense. You are definitely apple fanboys who prop APPL up in a reputable hardware forum. No valid answer to the question "why need even power CPU power on phone". All I got until now:

1) Reasons to keep upgrading apple silicon on iphones:
- bettery battery buttery life
- ?

Can't accept "load instagram and candy crush saga 0.2s faster" as a valid reason

2) Reasons to buy iphone (vs android), until now:
- Status symbol
- Personal familiarity with iOS (don't know android)
- ?

3) ?

3. Tight integration among hardware, software, services. “Just works seamlessly”.

 

[fastandfurious6]

Why don’t we need more cpu power in a phone?
The same exact CPU cores are used in Macs.

If so why don't you use your phone as computer?

Why doesn't almost anyone at all?

No one has ever been able to provide me with what I think is a convincing answer to the question of why they need a smartphone. Therefore everyone else on the planet is wrong and Apple, Samsung, and everyone else should just stop manufacturing those devices.

What was acceptable for you that was unacceptable for me?

State one valid reason! Just one

I will never take the opinion of someone saying seriously that when they have a Lisa Su picture. You worship corporate and that’s a big turn off

- Humor is a thing
- She saved AMD, the only x86 competitor of Intel

 

[poke01]

If so why don't you use your phone as computer?

Why doesn't almost anyone at all?

because I prefer my laptop or desktop and desktop class applications and a bigger screen with a lot more functionality. Most do as well. No one does their professional job on an Android phone connected via Dex.

But I still use my phone for YouTube, web and social media and I want the fastest possible cores when I’m paying $1000+

 

[coercitiv]

If so why don't you use your phone as computer?

Why doesn't almost anyone at all?

Almost everyone uses smartphones as computers. What moon of Jupiter are you from?

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

If so why don't you use your phone as computer?

Why doesn't almost anyone at all?

A lot of people use phones as computers as their main (or only) computing device. Like whole countries do.

 

[Doug S]

Almost everyone uses smartphones as computers. What moon of Jupiter are you from?

I guess he equates "use smartphone as a computer" to mean "use ONLY a smartphone as a computer".

What's more, using a smartphone as your ONLY computer is the majority use case in the third world and not terribly uncommon among younger people here in the US who might use a PC at work or at school but don't personally own one.

 

[fastandfurious6]

A lot of people use phones as computers as their main (or only) computing device. Like whole countries do.

Just like millions of people equate The Internet with just Facebook & Whatsapp... literally the last kind of customers who will even understand what kind of CPU their phone has!

When you keep it abstract and vague like that, you seem right - but the deeper you drill you'll encounter more and more contradictions.

Can you classify phones as computers? Yes you could.
Can you USE them as fully fledged computers? Not really.
Can it run autocad, photoshop, compile...? Not really.

The average wage in the countries you mention is like $500... these people are not going to buy a new iphone. If they do, they're losing money on an overpriced facebook/instagram/meta browser. I thought about a real scenario of software engineering student living in poverty and using iphone for study i.e. IDE or compilation but you can't really do these on iphone.

Which brings us to the real point that even techies here refuse to admit:

But I still use my phone for YouTube, web and social media and I want the fastest possible cores when I’m paying $1000+

poke01 seems unaware that performance for these use cases capped in 2021, they won't run any faster than in snapdragon 865... but he admitted what 99% of phone users use them for.




Still no real scenario after so many pages!!!

 

[dr1337]

Almost everyone uses smartphones as computers. What moon of Jupiter are you from?

thats like calling a newton a computer, which it technically is

Nobody is encoding videos with a phone, nobody is running a NAS with a mobile phone. Nobody is seriously programming through a mobile phone, and definitely nobody is running multiple monitors and multi-tasking on a phone.

Even if you can technically hook a keyboard and mouse up to an android phone and play pubg like that, NOBODY is doing that seriously. Phones are mainly SMS/Phones, Email clients, Cameras, and a mobile video player. Its not like you get desktop quality youtube videos on a phone without jumping through some unofficial hoops. You can argue thats the only thing people need computers for, but ultimately its not and thats why iPad didn't replace the macbook air, not even the latest pro's with their fancy keyboard cases still hold up to real macOS.

I think it would be great if phones and other mobile devices could actually be used for laptop/desktop class computing, but they really cant. And nobody is using them to replace it. And I really don't buy the arguments that young people don't own computers anymore. Maybe people who plan to never go to college? Imagine taking all your notes on a tiny phone screen lol. Bet some people tried that in the 90s with the newton too.

 

[fastandfurious6]

Exactly what dr1337 said, we posted at the same time


(Actually I prophesize that in 5 years max there will be devices 2in1 phone+computer, size of phones that run an actual "desktop OS" or some hybrid type and runs everything needed for i.e. business professionals. Together with new gimmicks like rollable keyboard and screen or holograms. But 2in1 device has to be a thing, to run an actual OS, to be easy and seamless for business non-tech people to use it as both phone and computer. Right now, if you want to use iphone for real computer tasks, you have to be a techie for the amount of hacks it requires and often you get hard limitations. The best you get now is buggy integration with OS for split screen and notifications lol.

But even with that special device, it probably can't beat the classic mac + phone combo

Iphones have ridiculously/unnecessary strong CPUs that are never really used. This is reality)

 

[fastandfurious6]

Exactly what dr1337 said, we posted at the same time

(Actually I prophesize that in 5 years max there will be devices 2in1 phone+computer, size of phones that run an actual "desktop OS" or some hybrid type and runs everything needed for i.e. business professionals.)

Well look at that, it made the news just 2 weeks ago and it's coming this year!

NexPhone Debuts as the Only Smartphone That Can Run Android, Linux and Windows | Beebom Gadgets

NexPhone has officially launched as the only phone that can run Android and can launch Linux and Windows 11.

gadgets.beebom.com

Who even heard about it? That's right... nobody really cares.

intended for a very niche audience: techie enthusiasts. 1%

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

Just like millions of people equate The Internet with just Facebook & Whatsapp... literally the last kind of customers who will even understand what kind of CPU their phone has!

No, but they will feel poor battery life because your CPU isn't good enough to crunch JS at an acceptable level of performance. Web browsing is one of the heaviest, nastiest workloads you could ever hope to throw at a CPU core.

poke01 seems unaware that performance for these use cases capped in 2021, they won't run any faster than in snapdragon 865... but he admitted what 99% of phone users use them for.

You're delusional if you think so, because that's measurably, demonstratively untrue.
Because Qualcomm have quite literally achieved a +46% uplift in speedometer perf (think browser single-page application benchmark) in one gen.

Not to mention that those countries use their phones in place of the mobile gaming consoles as well.

 

[oak8292]

Exactly what dr1337 said, we posted at the same time


(Actually I prophesize that in 5 years max there will be devices 2in1 phone+computer, size of phones that run an actual "desktop OS" or some hybrid type and runs everything needed for i.e. business professionals. Together with new gimmicks like rollable keyboard and screen or holograms. But 2in1 device has to be a thing, to run an actual OS, to be easy and seamless for business non-tech people to use it as both phone and computer. Right now, if you want to use iphone for real computer tasks, you have to be a techie for the amount of hacks it requires and often you get hard limitations. The best you get now is buggy integration with OS for split screen and notifications lol.

But even with that special device, it probably can't beat the classic mac + phone combo

Iphones have ridiculously/unnecessary strong CPUs that are never really used. This is reality)

You are over 50 years behind on your concept of a ‘computer’. In a world like yours the original Macs were just toys because the had a useable interface and they functioned for artistic and musical programs as well as ‘programming’, however they did not program x86.

You are still looking at ‘computers’ in very elitist way. Yes the Newton was a computer and a Raspberry PI is a computer. The iPhone is more of ‘computer’ than anything on your desk with more sensors for more varied functionality.

The iPhone as a platform can do a larger variety of things than your desktop computer. The speed of the processor in the iPhone expands its capabilities to things that you or I have not imagined.

Globally phones and smartphones are used for computing and finance. They have spread banking and gig economy to corners of the world you probably haven’t visited.

“Across all developing countries, more adults are also using mobile phones or cards to pay merchants. In 2024, 42% of adults in low- and middle-income countries made an in-store or online digital merchant payment, up from 35% in 2021. Three-quarters of adults who receive government payments—and half of wage earners—receive their money into an account, a practice that helps reduce theft and ensure that money goes to the right person.”

Mobile-Phone Technology Powers Saving Surge in Developing Economies

More adults than ever in low- and middle-income countries now have bank or other financial accounts, leading to a rise in formal saving, according to the World Bank Group’s Global Findex 2025 report.

www.worldbank.org

 

[fastandfurious6]

The iPhone as a platform can do a larger variety of things than your desktop computer. The speed of the processor in the iPhone expands its capabilities to things that you or I have not imagined.

Ok you completely lost me there 😂

LIST ONE!!! Please list one real example I beg you I've asked this 10 times and I only got nonsense 😂

What is a "larger variety of things" if you can't list just one?

Globally phones and smartphones are used for computing and finance.

WHAT COMPUTING please tell me!

"Finance" I guess you mean the regular banking apps and trading/crypto apps which can run in potato lol

Worldbank article pushing capitalist agendas

Governments worldwide are simply using the omnipresence of phones for digital ID, digital currency (and surveillance) all of which easily run on potato CPU of $30 phone.

That worldbank argument is completely, completely offtopic when discussing what an absolute waste is putting 2nm apple silicon on iphones or should I say... politics!

 

[fastandfurious6]

No, but they will feel poor battery life because your CPU isn't good enough to crunch JS at an acceptable level of performance.

You're delusional [...]

iphone 13:


iphone 17:



Cutting edge CPU advances for 4 generations + 500mah extra battery = 17h -> 20h browsing

Lol

Not to mention that those countries use their phones in place of the mobile gaming consoles as well.

Be specific!!! You keep being generic/vague/abstract and as a result you're wrong. I mentioned many times here (maybe other thread) that Genshin Impact is one of the heaviest games for android/ios. I'm sorry but Genshin Impact plays at very acceptable FPS in literally $100 potato phones, in $200 phones almost perfectly... for years

No such thing as demanding "mobile gaming" on android/ios, it's all gimmicks/gacha/money oriented, stuff designed either to make you addicted and spend money or to kill time

 

[oak8292]

Ok you completely lost me there 😂

LIST ONE!!! Please list one real example I beg you I've asked this 10 times and I only got nonsense 😂

What is a "larger variety of things" if you can't list just one?

GPS directions in the car. Earthquake warning on my person. Remote star, bird, leaf identification on a walk. Cell phone call. Step counter. Fall sensor. etc. etc.

WHAT COMPUTING please tell me!

"Finance" I guess you mean the regular banking apps and trading/crypto apps which can run in potato lol

Is the potato a computer?

Governments worldwide are simply using the omnipresence of phones for digital ID, digital currency (and surveillance) all of which easily run on potato CPU of $30 phone.

That worldbank argument is completely, completely offtopic when discussing what an absolute waste is putting 2nm apple silicon on iphones or should I say... politics!

Yes a $30 phone is a computer. An iPhone is just a glorified phone with more capabilities. Who are you to say how much capability they should have. The $30 phone isn’t getting security updates and maybe the person can’t afford the ‘luxury’. It seems you feel it is unnecessary, so more power to you but you are not representing 99% or now 95% of the world.

 

[fastandfurious6]

Thanks wow finally! Let's see what we have...

GPS directions in the car. Earthquake warning on my person. Remote star, bird, leaf identification on a walk. Cell phone call. Step counter. Fall sensor. etc. etc.

what phone you need to achieve 100% performance (can't go faster):

gps (use sensor) = POTATO PHONE
earthquake warning (sms) = SUPER POTATO PHONE
image identification (send data) = POTATO PHONE

Given above realities, you can treat this like a quiz and answer the rest yourself:

cell phone call = ???

step counter = ??? (literally runs on real potato)

fall sensor = ???


Seems like Potato Phone is a very capable computing machine equal to iphone!

 

[oak8292]

Your argument is that a potato phone is adequate for everything. I will agree that a potato phone with equivalent capabilities is adequate. Now show me the phone and price and what technology is in the processor.

As an add on, show me a PC that can do anything more than a 10nm processor? Is it a waste to use advanced tech on a PC? You know the answer will be potato.