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Appeals court rules long term immigrant detentions unconstitutional

Texashiker

Texashiker

Lifer
Should this have ever been in question?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/09/01/court.immigrant.detentions/index.html?iref=obnetwork

Holding a person without bail and without reason is unconstitutional. What lawyer that went to school in the US would argue otherwise?


Sixth Amendment (Amendment VI) to the United States Constitution ensures people with right to a speedy trial.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial,
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How does the government think they can get around the right to a speedy trial? Does being an illegal immigrant mean you do not get the same rights as everyone else?

The first line of the Declaration of Independence says "All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights". There are no mentions that "only" citizens of the US have those rights, the words are "all men" (meaning all people, not just "men").
 
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Texashiker said:
Does being an illegal immigrant mean you do not get the same rights as everyone else?
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Illegal immigrants don't fall under the US Constitution so no they don't have the same constitutional rights.

The Declaration of Independence is a completely separate document where the founding fathers outlines why the US should be considered a sovereign nation. These people have the same rights as any other human but not the same constitutional rights.
 
xBiffx said:
Illegal immigrants don't fall under the US Constitution so no they don't have the same constitutional rights.

The Declaration of Independence is a completely separate document where the founding fathers outlines why the US should be considered a sovereign nation. These people have the same rights as any other human but not the same constitutional rights.
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Apparently, the courts disagree with you in this instance at least.
 
xBiffx said:
Illegal immigrants don't fall under the US Constitution so no they don't have the same constitutional rights.
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Illegal immigrants are persons under the Constitution and are covered by all provisions applying to persons. Persons != citizens. Citizens have more enumerated rights than persons under the Constitution. The sixth ammendment applies to accued persons.
 
xBiffx said:
Illegal immigrants don't fall under the US Constitution so no they don't have the same constitutional rights.
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Actually, they do fall under the Constitution. The US Constitution applies to all areas that the US exercises sovereignty over. This is primarily due to the fact that the Constitution exists more as rules for the government, not the people. There are certain parts of the Constitution which specify that they only apply to citizens, but most of it says 'people' or remains silent. The 6th amendment for example, says only 'the accused'. There is no specification for any citizenship requirement.

There are of course exceptions to this, and immigrants (legal or otherwise) are not treated identically to citizens under the Constitution as they can be detained more easily, deported, etc, etc, but they most certainly do fall under the US Constitution so long as they are on US soil.
 
xBiffx said:
Illegal immigrants don't fall under the US Constitution so no they don't have the same constitutional rights.

The Declaration of Independence is a completely separate document where the founding fathers outlines why the US should be considered a sovereign nation. These people have the same rights as any other human but not the same constitutional rights.
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Actually, when you are in a location that is under the jurisdiction of the US Constitution, then you receive equal protection under the Constitution. This holds true for citizens, resident aliens, illegal immigrants, and legal visitors. This has been upheld many times by the Supreme Court. You probably shouldn't try to talk about Constitutional law that you obviously have no knowledge of.
 
What I meant to say was that illegal immigrants aren't afforded all the rights granted by the Constitution. The right to life, liberty, property and due process of law is about all they are afforded by our Constitution. Much like a felon, they aren't able to legally posses a firearm, as one example. I apologize, I should have been clearer on that.
 
xBiffx said:
What I meant to say was that illegal immigrants aren't afforded all the rights granted by the Constitution. The right to life, liberty, property and due process of law is about all they are afforded by our Constitution. Much like a felon, they aren't able to legally posses a firearm, as one example.
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Did you get dropped on your head as a baby?
 
No, the 6th amendment has absolutely nothing to do with this. The opinion plainly states that the prolonged detention would have been legal if the government had performed a "further inquiry into whether it was necessary".

Detaining him for three years was only Unconstitutional because it was done without due process. Certainly a brilliant Constitutional Scholar like yourself knows that the Due Process Clause isn't found in the 6th amendment.
 
The whole concept of deporting people over old felonies is absurd. If they were to be deported, that should have been established at the time, not a decade or more later. The whole thing is a Bush era pander to Xenophobia. Throwing them in jail for 3 years while the authorities fiddly-fuck around is even more egregious.

If Obama wants to do something in the interests of Justice, he should stop this.
 
I dont think its proper we putz around with illegals but I also dont believe the constitution should be applied to them.
We are already ignoring it with reference to American citizens and their government, why should we make life better for outsiders? Why should we give them rights we keep restricting for ourselves? The Patriot Act seems to be fucking us over and Obama wants to.....


Fuck it, I dont care. Lets just ruin everything. I'm sure I'll be taken care of by those kind hearted liberals. Lord knows they are sure nice to middle-class white hetero males in America.
 
Jhhnn said:
more later. The whole thing is a Bush era pander to Xenophobia. Throwing them in jail for 3 years while the authorities fiddly-fuck around is even more egregious.

If Obama wants to do something in the interests of Justice, he should stop this.
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Here we go again with "limits on immigration" = xenophobia. Also, you don't need to capitalize xenophobia and justice...
 
Infohawk said:
Here we go again with "limits on immigration" = xenophobia. Also, you don't need to capitalize xenophobia and justice...
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You bonehead. The guy in question is a legal immigrant, as are the other being deported over old felonies. They did their time, obeyed the law in the meanwhile, but we come back years later to deport them. It's a fuckover. If you're going to deport the guy, do it the day he's released from prison, have the paperwork & the people waiting. Don't wait 10 years to stick it up his ass.
 
xBiffx said:
Illegal immigrants don't fall under the US Constitution so no they don't have the same constitutional rights.

The Declaration of Independence is a completely separate document where the founding fathers outlines why the US should be considered a sovereign nation. These people have the same rights as any other human but not the same constitutional rights.
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Jeez, another freaking clueless person....go back to high school and take your government class again. Because you obviously failed it.

Look in the mirror. You wonder why we are going downhill? Because people are clueless, like you, but don't even bother learning the truth, and just spout off whatever they think is true.
 
anyone on american soil has these right. You learn this in 5th grade so I understand why you dont know it.
 
Jhhnn said:
You bonehead. The guy in question is a legal immigrant, as are the other being deported over old felonies. They did their time, obeyed the law in the meanwhile, but we come back years later to deport them. It's a fuckover. If you're going to deport the guy, do it the day he's released from prison, have the paperwork & the people waiting. Don't wait 10 years to stick it up his ass.
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That doesn't really have anything to do with what I posted.
 
Infohawk said:
I responded to your post.
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You accused him of espousing the equation that "limits on immigration = xenophobia." What does the situation he was discussing, which is the OP's article, have to do with "limits on immigration?" I think you assumed without checking that the thread had to do with illegals being deported for felonies.

- wolf
 
Jhhnn said:
The whole concept of deporting people over old felonies is absurd. If they were to be deported, that should have been established at the time, not a decade or more later. The whole thing is a Bush era pander to Xenophobia.
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woolfe9999 said:
You accused him of espousing the equation that "limits on immigration = xenophobia." What does the situation he was discussing, which is the OP's article, have to do with "limits on immigration?" I think you assumed without checking that the thread had to do with illegals being deported for felonies.

- wolf
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Is this really that complicated? "The whole concept of deporting people over old felonies" is a limit on immigration. Then he says it's pandering to xenophobia.
 
xBiffx said:
Illegal immigrants don't fall under the US Constitution so no they don't have the same constitutional rights.
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Was Cristopher Columbus a legal immigrant? Did he have a green card? If so, who did issue a Cristopher Columbus a green card?

From here we go - who's legal and who's illegal...

Legal immigrants should be those, approved by landowners- indians, native americans but not by aggressors who declared lands as of their own.

It's like Hitler's child was born in let's say Denmark in 1940, "declared" independence and start deciding who's legal and who's illegal...
 
Gintaras said:
Was Cristopher Columbus a legal immigrant? Did he have a green card? If so, who did issue a Cristopher Columbus a green card?

From here we go - who's legal and who's illegal...

Legal immigrants should be those, approved by landowners- indians, native americans but not by aggressors who declared lands as of their own.

It's like Hitler's child was born in let's say Denmark in 1940, "declared" independence and start deciding who's legal and who's illegal...
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Next time just save your breath and say you don't think there should be any limits on immigration in the US.
 
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