AOC Has Something to Say to "Never Biden" Bernie Bros

[Fanatical Meat]

Seems to me you were going off topic.

sure, tip a more effective thing that forces me or someone to think is a question. Something like:

”Who do you prefer picking judges, Bernie or Joe?”

I would prefer Bernie picking them.

This is an important election and all hands on deck will be required. Everyone needs to understand the goal is to win.
Joe certainly won’t follow our current Presidents habit of reckless and pointless spending. Joe certainly will be more sympathetic of the sick or people being crushed by debt. Joe certainly won’t lower taxes on the Uber wealthy.

 

[nakedfrog]

Biden winning is more of a "not losing" than an actual win. All we get out of that is maybe, possibly slowing our descent. Can't blame folks for aiming a little higher than that.

 

[sandorski]

sure, tip a more effective thing that forces me or someone to think is a question. Something like:

”Who do you prefer picking judges, Bernie or Joe?”

I would prefer Bernie picking them.

This is an important election and all hands on deck will be required. Everyone needs to understand the goal is to win.
Joe certainly won’t follow our current Presidents habit of reckless and pointless spending. Joe certainly will be more sympathetic of the sick or people being crushed by debt. Joe certainly won’t lower taxes on the Uber wealthy.

What I'm saying is that who picks the Judges is not an inspiring counterpoint to someone asking about Real Need issues. Joe does not have a good record on these issues.

 

[woolfe9998]

What I'm saying is that who picks the Judges is not an inspiring counterpoint to someone asking about Real Need issues. Joe does not have a good record on these issues.

Who does have a "good record" on such issues? If "good record" actually means accomplishing something, then Sanders certainly does not.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What I'm saying is that who picks the Judges is not an inspiring counterpoint to someone asking about Real Need issues. Joe does not have a good record on these issues.

George Bush appears to have the Student Debt forgiveness title.
I believe Warren & Bernie worked on the Bill sort of remember this.

Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program (PSLF)
Public Service Loan Forgiveness was created by the College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007 to lessen the burden of student loans for highly-qualified graduates and encourage them to pursue careers in the public service sector.

 

[sandorski]

Who does have a "good record" on such issues? If "good record" actually means accomplishing something, then Sanders certainly does not.

It means, Supports. Even on accomplishment though, you are incorrect.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It means, Supports. Even on accomplishment though, you are incorrect.

Warren meets that definition, arguably exceeds it with the consumer protection act. You didn’t appear to like Warren.
Am I wrong on the Warren part?

 

[sandorski]

Warren meets that definition, arguably exceeds it with the consumer protection act. You didn’t appear to like Warren.
Am I wrong on the Warren part?

She was almost as good as Bernie, but she gets inconsistent over time.

 

[FerrelGeek]

You obviously replied before reading my direct experience with dementia. I was on the phone with my sister last night, who has health care experience besides living with my mom for several months during the mid-stages of her dementia, and she was even more emphatic than I was about Biden.

I rarely see Fox news. But feel free to keep watching CNN, et al. They'll keep you calm and tell you that Joe the hair sniffer has the mental acumen of a 30-year-old.

You should get a job with Fox News as a Medical Observation Expert.

lol.

 

[FerrelGeek]

You're far more compassionate about gaffs for Joe than your fellow dems would be wrt any non-dem candidate gaffs. Remember Quayle's famous 'potatoe' deal? He was handed a spelling card that had the incorrect spelling. It was one of the flashcards to teach kids to recognize incorrectly spelled words. The media savaged him over that.

At least you agree that Joe is heading down the dementia path. Maybe you can have a chat with the Ds on here that chided me about how incorrect my observation was. Maybe start with @UberNeuman.

As for who I'll vote for, that's a fair question. So tell - seriously - why should I vote for Joe when I'm virtually sure that he'll be a puppet? I know that every political figure is one to some extent or another, but I see Joe being an Obama puppet and I have no desire to see that. A shadow Obama presidency is antithetical to what I want: less intrusive government, finding ways to get people off of government dependency, managed borders (still not doing that right - and I'm no xenophobe). The Ds want open borders to generate a bigger voting base. I think that we can manage health insurance better than something like universal Medicare/Medicaid. As far as I'm concerned, Obama helped to increase racial tensions vs find ways to unite us. And I know that I'll royally get flamed for all this, so I'll add some more.

- I don't want SCOTUS filled with people like Sotomeyer, which means that I want justices that actually know the constitution.
- I don't want people like John Kerry to be Sec State
- I don't want an IRS that targets organizations that it doesn't like. Don't believe me? I just did a google search and found 3 links that support that claim from non-republican sources.
- Abortion should be regarded as, at best, a necessary evil. The current crop of Ds in power treats it like it's some sort of sacrament. Oh, that baby was supposed to be aborted, but it lived and is out breathing on its own. Let's kill it anyway. Why don't we go all in and give the mother a 30 day retroactive abortion policy? What's the big deal?

Yeah, I don't bow at the progressive alter. Sue me. I don't hate brown/black people. I don't hate people born south of the border. I don't hate anyone on the LGBTQIA spectrum. I don't hate Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Zoroastians, Jews, Christians, or Atheists. I'm a chill guy who just wants to live his life and let others live theirs. Sorry, but I won't apologize for being a straight white guy. Doesn't mean that I think that I'm special or better than anyone, and I don't expect anyone else to do any differently than me in that regard. See? I actually try to be fair and tolerant in the classic sense. That will offend people. Oh well.

Oh, I have ZERO desire to return to any 1950s version of America either. I'm cool with change and don't fear it. I just want the change to be for the better and it doesn't make me an undesirable if I disagree with someone's idea of where they want to take the country. That's why I dislike much of progressivism.

I do recognize that there are some things that make sense to have the government deal with, just not the extent that progressives want. I lean a bit right of center and a bit on the libertarian side. I think that the drug war has been an abject failure and believe that incarceration should be for violent criminals, not a guy bagged for a bag of weed.

So, again, who do I vote for, Perk? Not trying to be a jerk here. It's an honest question on my part.

Let the flames commence.

I think it's clear he's starting, a bit, down that path. Campaigning for the Presidency, going from event to event to event under the 24/7 spotlight of the media is about as stressful a situation as I can imagine. I'm sure, were I to be doing so, one could compile a litany of gaffes and missteps over time that I would have made. How about you?

All that said, yeah, Joe falters, for sure.

So, let me ask you . . . if he's the Dem nominee vs. Fat Donnie in the general . . . who will you be voting for, and why?

 

[iRONic]

The Ds want open borders to generate a bigger voting base.

Yeah, no.

 

[nakedfrog]

- I don't want an IRS that targets organizations that it doesn't like. Don't believe me? I just did a google search and found 3 links that support that claim from non-republican sources.

No, I don't believe you. I remember when this "story" was happening, and it was inaccurate at best.

- Abortion should be regarded as, at best, a necessary evil. The current crop of Ds in power treats it like it's some sort of sacrament. Oh, that baby was supposed to be aborted, but it lived and is out breathing on its own. Let's kill it anyway. Why don't we go all in and give the mother a 30 day retroactive abortion policy? What's the big deal?

Also not an accurate portrayal.

 

[momeNt]

If my candidate isn't the nominee I write them in. I did that with Ron Paul and I'll do that again with Bernie if necessary.

 

[woolfe9998]

If my candidate isn't the nominee I write them in. I did that with Ron Paul and I'll do that again with Bernie if necessary.

Out of curiosity, what exactly do Sanders and Paul have in common? One wants government to do everything. The other wants government to do nothing.

 

[fskimospy]

No, I don't believe you. I remember when this "story" was happening, and it was inaccurate at best.

Also not an accurate portrayal.

Yeah I'm not sure if he realizes the whole IRS targeting thing turned out to be... well... false.

 

[momeNt]

Out of curiosity, what exactly do Sanders and Paul have in common? One wants government to do everything. The other wants government to do nothing.

Both are anti establishment. Bernie would take an active role in reestablishing balance where Paul would not. I don't have numbers to back it up, but Bernie is basically taxing back the stimulus from 2008 onwards that Paul never wanted in the first place.

In a free market health care wouldn't be able to be unaffordable, who would they sell to? The problem is we don't have anything remotely close to a free market and never will. So Bernie helps with that.

The other problem that I have come around with as far as being okay with Bernie from Paul is that consumerism is a disease that makes you act against your financial self-interest. Financial self-interest is important for markets to work correctly. We have greater and greater wealth and wage disparities but yet retail companies selling junk are still doing great because we can't help ourselves from buying stuff. We just don't seem to rate financial well-being very high so spending and debt remains high, so I think we need help to bring it down to sane levels.

Also both are soft on changing the 2nd Amendment.

 

[mect]

Who does have a "good record" on such issues? If "good record" actually means accomplishing something, then Sanders certainly does not.

I would say at the very least voting record is a good start. Yes, its even better if a person can persuade others to the right positions, but I'd still rather elect someone that didn't vote for the Iraq war over someone that did, even though the person that did technically accomplished something.

 

[woolfe9998]

I would say at the very least voting record is a good start. Yes, its even better if a person can persuade others to the right positions, but I'd still rather elect someone that didn't vote for the Iraq war over someone that did, even though the person that did technically accomplished something.

I think the problem is that no one has been able to advance the progressive agenda in a meaningful way for decades now because of lockstep republican opposition. On the one hand, we have center-left democrats who try to bargain with them and sometimes get half-measures passed, sometimes at the cost of undesirable concessions. On the other, you have Sanders who stands his ground and gets nothing in exchange for nothing. The difference between the two is far more a matter of tactics than end goals. All democrats need to realize that it's republicans who are the problem, and they need to be defeated, for POTUS and in Congress. Even if Sanders could have gotten the nomination and won the White House, he still couldn't have gotten anything passed without at least 60 dems in the Senate.

The conflict between left and center-left is only aiding Trump and the GOP.

 

[woolfe9998]

Both are anti establishment. Bernie would take an active role in reestablishing balance where Paul would not. I don't have numbers to back it up, but Bernie is basically taxing back the stimulus from 2008 onwards that Paul never wanted in the first place.

In a free market health care wouldn't be able to be unaffordable, who would they sell to? The problem is we don't have anything remotely close to a free market and never will. So Bernie helps with that.

The other problem that I have come around with as far as being okay with Bernie from Paul is that consumerism is a disease that makes you act against your financial self-interest. Financial self-interest is important for markets to work correctly. We have greater and greater wealth and wage disparities but yet retail companies selling junk are still doing great because we can't help ourselves from buying stuff. We just don't seem to rate financial well-being very high so spending and debt remains high, so I think we need help to bring it down to sane levels.

Also both are soft on changing the 2nd Amendment.

I think your real answer is contained in your first sentence. The rest sounds like a rationalization for the fact that you're fixated on whomever in your mind distinguishes him or herself from that of a conventional politician. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me but your vote is your vote.

 

[sandorski]

I think the problem is that no one has been able to advance the progressive agenda in a meaningful way for decades now because of lockstep republican opposition. On the one hand, we have center-left democrats who try to bargain with them and sometimes get half-measures passed, sometimes at the cost of undesirable concessions. On the other, you have Sanders who stands his ground and gets nothing in exchange for nothing. The difference between the two is far more a matter of tactics than end goals. All democrats need to realize that it's republicans who are the problem, and they need to be defeated, for POTUS and in Congress. Even if Sanders could have gotten the nomination and won the White House, he still couldn't have gotten anything passed without at least 60 dems in the Senate.

The conflict between left and center-left is only aiding Trump and the GOP.

Sanders would give the stronger hand.

 

[woolfe9998]

Sanders would give the stronger hand.

Sanders can't produce republican votes in the Senate to get any legislation passed. His passion will not convince any republicans to vote for his bills. He'd be stuck with whatever he can accomplish by executive order, which is likely not going to be that different from what Biden can accomplish.

 

[sandorski]

Sanders can't produce republican votes in the Senate to get any legislation passed. His passion will not convince any republicans to vote for his bills. He'd be stuck with whatever he can accomplish by executive order, which is likely not going to be that different from what Biden can accomplish.

You underestimate what he can do. When he proposes the kinds of Policy that are popular even across Party lines, Republicans will have their own supporters pressuring them. Biden will offer nothing of interest to the People, thus losing his ability to motivate the People.

 

[hal2kilo]

Sanders can't produce republican votes in the Senate to get any legislation passed. His passion will not convince any republicans to vote for his bills. He'd be stuck with whatever he can accomplish by executive order, which is likely not going to be that different from what Biden can accomplish.

I think Biden could pull a Dem majority in the Senate. Then get rid of the filibuster, start kicking ass.

 

[UberNeuman]

You underestimate what he can do. When he proposes the kinds of Policy that are popular even across Party lines, Republicans will have their own supporters pressuring them. Biden will offer nothing of interest to the People, thus losing his ability to motivate the People.

You're underestimating the power of "stigging it" from the Republican base. It doesn't matter how his policies could help them - their mindset is to break anything not "conservative" which means anything and everything.

ACA is a prime example.

 

[Brainonska511]

You underestimate what he can do. When he proposes the kinds of Policy that are popular even across Party lines, Republicans will have their own supporters pressuring them. Biden will offer nothing of interest to the People, thus losing his ability to motivate the People.

I want whatever you're smoking if you think Republicans will move to the left because a bully pulpit will magically convince Republican constituents to pull a 180 on their representatives.