Anyone still do deadlifts and barbell bent over rows?

[Mai72]

I've been doing both but I'm now reconsidering. Why? I'm concerned about injuring my lower back. I'm still going to keep doing squats though.

Has anyone abondaned these exercises becauae of back issues? I'm looking for an exercise to replace. Maybe t bar pullups?

 

[Deeko]

Yes I still do deadlifts. There isn't really a replacement for deadlifts. I personally prefer dumbbell rows to barbell rows, and they definitely put less strain on the lower back.

 

[Zivic]

I've been doing both but I'm now reconsidering. Why? I'm concerned about injuring my lower back. I'm still going to keep doing squats though.

Has anyone abondaned these exercises becauae of back issues? I'm looking for an exercise to replace. Maybe t bar pullups?

I have all but given them up... mainly because of my arm injury, not due to back concerns.

I was limiting my deadlifts prior to the injury as I was doing lots of volume with squats and it was hard to find the right fit to work deads in. I was doing them, but in a very reduced fashion vs previous yrs. 'IF' I ever go back to them I will never use a reverse grip; opting only to go double overhand and doubt I would go much beyond 225-250. using them as more accessory type of work than a staple of a workout. I have plenty of thickness in my back already and would opt for more leg development in my physique - that was the reasoning I was using

as far as the rows go, I have found, for muscle development, any sort of chest supported row is as good or better than a standing bent over row. In a beginner there can be some benefits to strengthening ones core with bent over rows, but that is weighed against the risk of injury due to bad form, lack of core strength, or both. as one gains some pretty decent strength it becomes a lot to ask of ones lower back to support heavy rows properly. I know at a time i was rowing 3+ plates, probably lucky I wasn't injured.

 

[Ackmed]

Yes, I still do them. Like with any lifting, proper form is key. I don't go heavy on dead lifts, I don't want huge legs. I go moderately light with multiple high number sets. I don't try to lift the gym and slam shit down. Dead lifts are probably the one exercise I would do if I could only do one.

 

[Zivic]

I don't go heavy on dead lifts, I don't want huge legs.

I love comments like this....

like it's that easy...LOL

 

[purbeast0]

I do both and I have a partially bulging disc in my lower lumbar. My pain/back has gotten better over the years. I go somewhat heavy on deads (365lbs) then right after 3 sets of deadlifts I do bent over rows since I already have the bar and space already, starting with 185lbs. I probably skip deadlifts like once every month or so though just due to my back aching a little bit. But overall my back feels very strong due to those 2 exercises.

 

[Ackmed]

I love comments like this....

like it's that easy...LOL

Explain? I don't go heavy on any legs, squats, press, etc. Because as I said, I don't want huge legs. It is easy for me to gain leg mass.

 

[blackdogdeek]

Just did deadlifts this morning. And, last friday.

 

[moonbogg]

I don't do bent over rows, but that's only because I do T-bar rows instead. I do all the big lifts on the same day, twice per week. I love the dead lift. I usually start with squats, then T-bar row, then dead lift, then stiff legged dead lift. I love that stiff semi-sore feeling in the back the next couple of days after the workout. I had sciatic nerve pain before, but since doing a lot of deads, squats and T-bar, that pain is much more rare now. Not sure why, but I did take notice of it. My posture is better now and I stand straighter because my back is getting nice and strong. It used to be all soft and hallow, like it was made of putty or something. Now I have two hard spinal erectors running up from my butt to my middle back and two bars of muscle forming in the middle back. Not saying I'm buff or anything, but there are muscles showing up in places that I never had before thanks to deads.

 

[Pantlegz]

Yes. I typically do pendley rows vs bent over rows but they're basically the same thing. If you're getting back pain from either you're probably not doing them right.

 

[Zivic]

Explain? I don't go heavy on any legs, squats, press, etc. Because as I said, I don't want huge legs. It is easy for me to gain leg mass.

I just love any statement about not lifting due to getting "too big".... as if it were really that easy. i remember we had a couple back and forths in one of the drug related threads here in this forum and I know one man's huge is another man's not-so-huge

 

[Ackmed]

I just love any statement about not lifting due to getting "too big".... as if it were really that easy. i remember we had a couple back and forths in one of the drug related threads here in this forum and I know one man's huge is another man's not-so-huge

I didn't say I didn't lift. I said that I don't go heavy because I did not want big legs. I didn't say huge. I don't remember you or going back and forth with you. Of course huge means different things to different people. A lot of people in life look at things differently. And yes, it is that easy. Which is why I said I don't lift heavy, getting back to the original point I made.

 

[Zivic]

I didn't say I didn't lift. I said that I don't go heavy because I did not want big legs. I didn't say huge. I don't remember you or going back and forth with you. Of course huge means different things to different people. A lot of people in life look at things differently. And yes, it is that easy. Which is why I said I don't lift heavy, getting back to the original point I made.

yeah, I had to stop doing curls; or at least heavy curls, because my biceps were just too big... I had one get so big it exploded

 

[Ackmed]

You're just trying to be a jackass now, but I'm used to it on these forums. Your wannabe analogy was stupid. I don't understand why you can't get I don't want big legs. I have to run and do an obstacle course for work. I ran a timed mile yesterday for work, have to every 6 months. Same for obstacle course. Having big legs is not great for that. I don't like looking like I'm wearing skinny jeans when I'm wearing regular jeans. I don't like having to buy two sizes up to fit my legs and ass in jeans, while having a loose waist. I don't just go to the gym to get big, I live an active lifestyle I do tough mudder and spartan races. I have never seen a guy with "huge" legs do them. It'd be pretty hard to do 13 miles like that. I don't skip leg days, I just do lighter weight than I could do, with more reps or legs with cardio included.

I see guys all the time at the gym who lift very heavy, good for them. They usually have a big belly too. Wearing WWF belts and use more chalk than LeBron James, slamming weights down and grunting. No way in hell they could run 10 miles without stopping. People work out for different reasons. So like I said, I don't lift heavy because I don't want big legs. That is how you get bigger in muscle groups, lifting heavy. Don't like it? I don't care. My legs are not small by any means.

 

[Deeko]

Ok, look. Zivic IS trying to be a jackass, but now so are you. First and foremost, lifting heaving doesn't just make you big. It makes you strong. You get big through a combination of lifting big, eating big, and genetics. You can lift big every day and not have big legs depending on the other factors. Now, I'm not saying that you should be doing heavy deadlifts because of this information, just that your premise is invalid, and that's what Zivic was (very poorly) getting at.

Secondly, I realize you're just fighting fire with fire, but the 2nd paragraph is full of so much nonsense I don't know where to begin, so I'm not going to. I'll just say that almost everything you said is either false or ridiculous and move on.

 

[Ackmed]

Ok, look. Zivic IS trying to be a jackass, but now so are you. First and foremost, lifting heaving doesn't just make you big. It makes you strong. You get big through a combination of lifting big, eating big, and genetics. You can lift big every day and not have big legs depending on the other factors. Now, I'm not saying that you should be doing heavy deadlifts because of this information, just that your premise is invalid, and that's what Zivic was (very poorly) getting at.

Secondly, I realize you're just fighting fire with fire, but the 2nd paragraph is full of so much nonsense I don't know where to begin, so I'm not going to. I'll just say that almost everything you said is either false or ridiculous and move on.

No I was not. He thinks he knows what is better for me, and my situation. I understand getting bigger involves several important things. You also left out sleep, which is very important. My premise is not invalid, I can get big legs very easily. By lifting heavy. I already do the other things required for getting big. I have extremely good genetic. Not bragging, just saying it like it is. I am fairly big as it. But as he tried to say in a silly way, big is subjective. My comment is factual, and I stand by it. I do not lift heavy in legs, because I don't want big legs. If I did left heavy consistently, they would be what I would call big. How do I know? Been there and done that.

Yeah I did give him a bit of his medicine back. Making blanket statements about how people work out and lift. They're also true. Strong men are, very strong. They are also huge in the stomach most of the time. Think they can run 10 miles well? Nope. But they can lift a truck so they don't care. People work out for different things.

I am under contract with DOD and DOE. With both I have a physical fitness requirement to keep. They have certain height and weight requirements, as well as other requirements. For DOD I can only be 203lbs for my height, 72", or 6'. Having bigger legs is not good for that, because how they measure fat percentage and BMI does not take anything into account for legs. They weigh you, take your height, measure your waist, neck, hips, pinch certain parts of your body, etc. All that does not take anything into account for legs at all. Which is dumb but whatever. If you get put into the "fat body" group, you can get fucked. It can go on your permanent record, and limit your promotions. I had mine done earlier this week for DOE and I was at 30 BMI according to them. Thats the start of "obese". But they also had me at 11.1% body fat. I have very little fat, and you can easily see my stomach muscles. You can see the individual muscle strands in my shoulders when I lift, legs, arms, see about every vein I have, to the point some people think its gross. Because I am about 220lbs at 6'. Anything over 30 BMI and bad things can happen for me at work. If I did more legs, guess what? Bad things would have happened, paperwork would have started. All because I would have weighed a few more pounds. Not to mention the other reasons I don't want big legs.

He made an ignorant statement, and I corrected him on it. Good job riding to his rescue and following his mistakes, in not knowing the situation in why I said what I did. All this because he was ignorant and took offense to my comment about not wanting big legs. People on these forums will argue about anything.

 

[Deeko]

I skipped your tirade about why you don't want to get big because I don't care. It's very irrelevant to anything I said, I would recommend you go back and read it again if you think I mentioned why you should or should not want to get big, or if people can have different motivations in the gym, or any of that, I promise it isn't there. And you're also talking to a record holding powerlifter that does not have a big belly and absolutely can run 10 miles without breaking too much of a sweat - so while you want to throw a hissy fit and stereotype, I'd like to remind you that you remain factually incorrect. Also, if you're so deathly concerned about getting big you might want to research the optimal rep range for hypertrophy and mass building. I'll give you a hint; it ain't 1-3.

Zivic made a dumb comment which apparently struck a nerve with you and made you feel it was necessary to go on a rant full of incorrect information. I called you out on your mistakes, while remaining very unconcerned about whether or not you should want to get big or not. Move on.

 

[Ackmed]

You didn't call me on anything. In fact corrected you and him. You can run ten miles and are a record holder? Congratulations. I also said "big" is subjective. Lifting heavy doesn't mean someone automatically has big legs. Heavy is also subjective. So your try at that argument, like the last, doesn't work I don't want big legs. For the reasons I stated. Different people have different reasons for working out and their goals. Get over it, and move on yourself. He was obviously butt hurt about a conversation we had that I don't remember before, tried to start something. Sadly I partly fell for it. I'm done going back and forth, it's not helping the OP in regards to his question.

 

[Deeko]

*sigh*

- You said you don't lift heavy because you don't want to get big. I don't care if you don't want to get big. It is factually incorrect that you can't lift heavy without getting big. I have pointed this out to you several times.
- You insist that people that lift heavy have big bellies and can't run. I've provided personal evidence to the contrary. A friend of mine is a world recording holding powerlifter that regularly participates in triathalons. I guess he doesn't fit your stereotype so he doesn't exist, right? I also know world record holding women powerlifters who have perfectly normal sized legs, believe it or not. Yep, I do know a few big bellied powerlifters that can't run, but insisting that they're the norm is like assuming there are no weight classes in boxing below heavyweight. Sorry, Money, guess you don't exist.
- You made some weird comment about chalk as though there's something wrong with using chalk while deadlifting. I'm not even sure what that means; chalk is perfectly normal to use in the deadlift, whether you're lifting heavy or not. Do you take issue with rock climbers using chalk too?
- I never once ridiculed your desire to not get big, nor did I say I think you should be doing heavy deadlifts. In fact I specifically pointed out that I'm NOT saying that in my first reply, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up.

You want to have some weird personal tiff with Zivic, go for it. But if you spread factually incorrect information, you will be called on it, whether you want to get big or not (again...still irrelevant to anything I've posted).

 

[SlitheryDee]

I do barbell bent over rows. I oscillate between higher rep ranges with lower weights and lower rep ranges while pushing up the weight week over week. I have mostly stopped deadlifting due to how sore it makes my lower back. I understand that your lower back shouldn't get sore doing deadlifts with proper form, but I can't find a positioning where it doesn't happen. Is it weird that bent over rows don't bother my lower back at all? I don't really like the idea of stopping with the barbell rows because I feel I owe most of my upper back development to them though.

 

[runnergirl07]

I never skip deadlifts on days that I do my back; they're just my favorite and can't imagine a back workout without them. Used to do barbell bent over rows but found dumbbell bent over rows more comfortable for me so I'm sticking to that routine instead.

 

[blackdogdeek]

I understand that your lower back shouldn't get sore doing deadlifts with proper form, but I can't find a positioning where it doesn't happen.

Can you post a form vid?

 

[KIAman]

I still do both (and I'm 38) although my deadlift has stalled (grip strength and I refuse to use a strap), my bent over rows (from the floor) has gotten better, now able row my body weight for 5 reps. My form has slowly transformed over the last few years on both and I noticed that without really thinking about it, I use my stomach to support my back, if that makes sense. Almost like if my stomach is in the way of me bending completely over. I put in so much air in my stomach area and squeeze tight enough (took a while to practice this without blacking out) that my stomach can hold my upper body up by itself without using any back muscles. Now add in pulling lats and stiffening the back muscles and it gets solid enough that your back doesn't move at all.

Now I'm working on holding my breath longer so I don't have to release air and go through the stomach tightening process again in the middle of my set. Right now I can fire off about 3 reps (heavy 90%+) without resetting. Trying to get up to 5 reps.

Edit: Oh forgot to mention, get good lifting shoes. I used to lift in cheapy $20 converse because of the flat hard sole and with a lot of recommendation but after going through 3 pairs, I got myself a pair of Nike Romaleos. A little expensive but it helped tremendously in all of my lifts, even my bench press! Make sure you size it perfectly for your feet size and shape and it will feel like you have your feet cemented to the ground.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Not sure you guys are aware, but Ackmed is physically more impressive than both of you in both athletic ability and aesthetics. The guy is a beast... That said, i have had my run-ins with him too, but I don't think I'd argue with him on this one. Just because heavy reps vs light reps don't determine size (food does, and rest), isn't any reason to berate him. Going heavy is incredibly ambiguous anyway.

Ackmed knows his body. Whether the size increase is from glycogen, or muscle fiber, or whatever the heck, he knows that going heavy increase leg size for him.

 

[Deeko]

I'm glad you think he's prettier than me, I wouldn't doubt it, but it's really irrelevant to anything I said, much like his replies were also irrelevant to anything I said, so we haven't really changed anything here.