Anyone have experience with B&W subs?

[gus6464]

Tential I do appreciate the advice and I am listening - the only person responding here to which that is not the case is gus, for the aforementioned reasons. Please don't take the fact that I'm rebuffing his attempts to be a superior, derisive person not really interested in helping anyone, as me ignoring everone. And the only reason I mocked him for the shiny sub is because he thinks the only reason to get a CM sub is the shiny box. I was just turning his nonsense around.

Anyway, your laptop analogy still works the way I'm saying. If you compare an Apple and Acer laptop with similar specs, the Acer will undoubtedly perform as well or better for less money. That doesn't mean there aren't legitimate reasons / preferences to go Apple, and that those reasons can extend beyond the shiny aluminum case, and if you haven't used MacOS it's hard to have a legitimate, real world opinion as to all of its merits and detriments.

And no - I would not buy an Apple laptop.

Dude you need to get over yourself. You asked a question about a B&W sub and everyone pretty much told you it's crap. You didn't believe anyone. I show you hard data to why that sub is crap and you get all butthurt. I show you a sub that is 1/3 of the price and measures greatly better and now I am a B&W hater. It's obvious you want the B&W sub and are just looking for justification from others for some reason but you are not going to get it here. Why? Because these people know it's a crap sub.

The funny thing is that you are going to get the same exact responses that I gave you if you posted this question on AVS. It's just a giant conspiracy against B&W I tell you.

A properly integrated sub should disappear in a room. There is a reason why there are so many calibration options out there. You don't "hear" a sub, what you actually hear is how the sub is interacting with the room. Why was the SVS Ultra recommended? Because it would be a lot easier to properly integrate it into a room because it has so much power on tap. There is no such thing as too much sub if your space allows for it.

I have a friend with 2 PB13-Ultra's in a small room. The LFE his system puts out is just astonishing. He never cranks up his subs past 20% and you can't tell where the subs are when anything is playing. The bass comes from everywhere as it should.

 

[gus6464]

On a side note.
I placed an order for:
Dayton 15 Ultimax
NU-4 6000 (no dsp yes I'm cheap and I know I'll want one later)
Knockdown box for the 15 Ultimax (3 CU FT, I have another 4 CU FT box halfway finished just need to make the subwoofer cutout. Going to test a paint job on the 3 CU ft box first though before I mess up my own 4 CU box that I made)

Placed that on 3/24. Forgot about it, thought it was canceled, just got the shipping confirmation yesterday. Can't wait to say goodbye to my Klipsch RW-12D. Wish I had understood that reviews for speakers/subs on amazon/casual home theater users are pointless for enthusiasts. Had no where near the output I actually wanted. Great subwoofer, but well as any person here probably knows, you can never have enough bass.

Can't wait to order the second one by the end of this year.

Just need those Volt Coaxials from DIYSoundgroup now and those Tux-1099s later down the road and I'll be set.

That's some serious power you going to be pushing through that Ultimax. As far as the DSP thing you could always just get one of these on the cheap to calibrate.

http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4

Don't know where you live but if you in SD you could borrow my UMIK-1 to get you all dialed in.

 

[s44]

Since SVS suggested a pair of PB-2000s, order one and if you want compare it to the B&W. It's only 66lbs, not 150, and I bet it alone will win.

(Or if you want to compare small sealed to small sealed, try the SB-2000... Though for your purposes I think the PB makes more sense.)

 

[tential]

That's some serious power you going to be pushing through that Ultimax. As far as the DSP thing you could always just get one of these on the cheap to calibrate.

http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4

Don't know where you live but if you in SD you could borrow my UMIK-1 to get you all dialed in.

Ha thanks man. I wish I was in SD, trying to move out there. I haven't gotten to that stage yet in my HT experience where I've felt "I need a DSP". I know it'll come though. Just taking baby steps each time lol.
I know the Mini DSP is out there though so that's why I figured I'll just see how I like it first. This is one of those things that I was trying to explain to OP though. HT community is very nice and people help you get setup/see their gear so it's usually not hard to see GOOD gear.

The NU4-6000 though is for 2 Dayton Ultimax 15s (eventually when I get a second) and then to power my fronts(or rears) as well. After blowing my tweeters twice using my receiver's power (granted it was a cheaper HT-RC360 and I now have the TX-NR709), I only use external amps. I got the Crown XLS1500 already as well. I'm scared about doing the fan mod on the NU4-6000 though lol.
After living in a fraternity house though I guess I'm just a little used to entertaining and a ballin sound system always helps. My Polk Monitor 70s/Klipsch RW-12D weren't cutting it and they were loud enough to throw a party for 300+ people. I just need more though. The Volt Coaxials with their higher sensitivity, higher power handling, and clearer/better drivers will be nice. I really want the Tux 1099 though.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1479331/a-3-way-99db-multi-configurable-seos-design/150
99db sensitivity speakers and they're highly praised. Mark Seaton and others have chimed in on his design. Of course they won't say "buy this over my speakers" but well when people like that say it's a good design you can be very happy with it.

The funny thing is though this setup I just purchased was billed to me at under $600. It'd destroy that $1500 B&W. $1500 is a DIY dream budget (well not really but for the average nonover the top person it is).
It's kind of funny because at that budget, OP has some of the BEST sub options available to him possible yet doesn't have the Home Theater experience yet to realize it. Kind of actually makes me upset that he can pick up the best home theater gear available on the market at that price but doesn't realize it so is considering the B&W. I wish I had the expertise/knowledge to explain it to him in a way he understood lol. But well, I did the SAME thing OP did except with speakers. I wanted the Klipsch RF-7II so freaking badly and always would ask on the DIY section how speakers would compare to them(essentialy what OP is asking if anyone has the B&W sub and can compare I asked the same thing about the Klipsch RF-7II). But well, now that I understand it more I realize why people looked at me like a complete retard when I asked. That, and I was lucky enough to have a speaker enthusiast who had the far superior lines of Klipsch explain to me the vast difference between traditional home theater speakers and DIY systems.


@OP though
You're not the first person. Here is a search for B&W/Bowers and Wilkins on AVSForum. I filtered out the threads that had to ask with Speakers, or were stating that the person had B&W speakers and were looking for a subwoofer (no one mentioned B&W subs usually in those threads but I included ONE thread with it so that you could see that people just don't event hink about getting their subwoofers).
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1440460/thoughts-on-paradigm-or-bowers-and-wilkins-subwoofers
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1464211/which-sub-would-be-more-bang-for-my-buck-out-of
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1329499/svs-vs-b-w
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1317376/b-w-cm-series
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1496484/b-w-system-looking-to-add-sub (This thread is like a lot of the ones I searched where the person has speakers but no sub but I thought this was a little relevant to you because he has B&W Speakers. I do too actually. But he knows full well not to even consider the sub).
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1283350/b-w-paradigm-and-many-more-so-expensive-why
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1494438/b-w-vs-martin-logan-vs-paradigm-sub-which-one (Thought this was cute. He says he is considering the B&W, not a single person mentions it again in the thread.)
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1451692/w...k-with-one-sub-and-another-i-could-energy-b-w (This one talks about the graphs taht gus posted actually which is the MAIN issue with the B&W. It rolls off at 50 hz which is ridiculous. That's where my main SPEAKERS roll off at. Your subwoofer should roll off around 20 Hz. Below 20 Hz, you're spending CASH to get that loud. You can see on that SVS graph that gus posted that it rolls off between 20-30 which isn't bad vs 50 hz for the B&W. For 10 inch subs, you're not expecting much low end at that point anyway, but if you can get a sub that will play flat to almost 20 hz vs 50 hz then it's a no brainer. What that graph shows is that a decent tower speaker playing at full range, or that same speaker with an 80 Hz crossover with the B&W would sound the same. There point of adding a subwoofer is it plays that frequency range that your towers/mains don't play. It's hard to explain the graph well if you don't see them often but it's just in short, a very bad frequency response for a $1200+ subwoofer.

I didn't cherry pick these thread results. I simply just grabbed any thread that had Bowers and Wilkins subwoofers vs another. I can't find a single person who can logically recommend B&W subs or even will personally recommend over SVS/HSU/anything else out there that is actually good.
The short answer is always coming out to be the same though OP:
Get ANYTHING else.
Get an internet direct company if you don't want to learn to build.
Get an assemble it yourself option if you want the best bang for your buck.
Get a DIY if you want the best bang for your buck and own power tools already (if you don't and aren't a power tool user then probably is best to go AIY unless you plan on building TONs of things in the future).

Really don't know what else to tell you OP. My only suggestion is Post on AVSforum and find a person in your area that will let you demo their subs. Chances are 95% of people willing to let you demo their system will own a subwoofer better than the B&W you posted, but cheaper as well.

Or you could go with the DIY kit I posted which comes out to $600 (comes out cheaper actually I just have it setup so I can eventually expand to 4 subwoofers.). Don't even really know what I can do with it right now though lol.

The ONLY reason I recommend the B&W is if you like the finish.
If you already own B&W speakers and want the brand of your subwoofer to match (There will be NO PERFORMANCE BENEFIT. This is purely for aesthetic purposes which some people are like that. This is part of the reason I wanted the Klipsch RF7s was so I could match. Now I'm just selling all my speakers and building my own as I just can't get the performance I want at a reasonable price from even internet direct companies. I'm not paying SVS/HSU/Paradigm 1k+ for subs/speakers I can build myself for half the price and get better quality).
If your a person who cares about Brand Image. I won't hate on brand whores as I prefer Mercedes to any car doesn't matter the cost, own stupid things like Louis Vuitton bracelets/accessories and what not say if Brand is important then pick it up.

Otherwise, B&W doesn't win on performance for subwoofers. It just doesn't. The graph that gus posted really is the story for each subwoofer they have. It's just an extremely overpriced product. I'd ONLY recommend you B&W subwoofers if you were buying used at a good price.

 

[tential]

Just looked at the reviews for the subwoofer i Purchased OP.

Here is the first one.
"I had high expectations going into this. I thought if it is nearly as good as I expect I would be very happy. So I built a roughly 3 cft sealed box for it, stuffed it as recommended and bridged an inuke1000 into 4 ohms on this (VCs wired in series) and it blew me away. I have it coupled with an Epik Empire and a 10" sealed B&W in an 1800cft room, and this sub literally wipes the floor with both of those, put together.

It is very musical, it sounds great and unobtrusive, but plays with authority when it is called for. It plays every genre with ease and hardly breaks a sweat. That is what surprised me the most. I thought I would be using the empire and the B&W for music, and just turning this on for movies, but it is on all the time.

For movies, it digs deep and provides a scary amount of tight, punchy bass. I like it so much, I just ordered a second one, and am going to sell the 10" sub and run two of these with the epik empire. It is a good match for that sub if anyone is looking for multiples who owns one.

I cannot imagine wanting more from a subwoofer. Here is the link to my build with pics and graphs.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1529850/mcstyvies-15-sealed-sub-build"

His thread is still open. The sub you have though has more power handling, but at the end of the day, it's still a 10 inch subwoofer. Unless you have some type of subwoofer size constraint, the laws of physics are extremely against you using a 10 inch subwoofer for hometheater duty.

If I was you OP personally. I'd purchase everything I just did for $600. Then I'd spend that other $600 on upgrading my speakers. But that's just me personally as the volume level I listen at would just not work. Hell, that's the reason I'm getting rid of my B&W speakers. They sound good, just don't play at reference levels well compared to other cheaper DIY options.

 

[Deeko]

Dude you need to get over yourself. You asked a question about a B&W sub and everyone pretty much told you it's crap. You didn't believe anyone. I show you hard data to why that sub is crap and you get all butthurt. I show you a sub that is 1/3 of the price and measures greatly better and now I am a B&W hater. It's obvious you want the B&W sub and are just looking for justification from others for some reason but you are not going to get it here. Why? Because these people know it's a crap sub.

The funny thing is that you are going to get the same exact responses that I gave you if you posted this question on AVS. It's just a giant conspiracy against B&W I tell you.

A properly integrated sub should disappear in a room. There is a reason why there are so many calibration options out there. You don't "hear" a sub, what you actually hear is how the sub is interacting with the room. Why was the SVS Ultra recommended? Because it would be a lot easier to properly integrate it into a room because it has so much power on tap. There is no such thing as too much sub if your space allows for it.

I have a friend with 2 PB13-Ultra's in a small room. The LFE his system puts out is just astonishing. He never cranks up his subs past 20% and you can't tell where the subs are when anything is playing. The bass comes from everywhere as it should.

It's ironic that the guy displaying the massive superiority complex is telling someone to get over himself. As I mentioned to tential - the only person who's advice I'm ignore is yours, and that's because you're carrying yourself like a 3 year old throwing a tantrum. Again, even in this post where you're attempting to "explain" yourself, you're employing massive levels of hyperbolic nonsense. This is why I'm largely ignoring or disputing the things you're saying. Anyway, I'll happily continue my discussion with the other posts, and if you'd like to continue your sidebar with tential, feel free - but I've had my fill of your nonsense and will be muting you. Enjoy your subs, ta-ta.

 

[gus6464]

You are going to love that Ultimax 15. A couple of months ago I helped by brother-in-law do that same driver in a 4cf sealed box. We started out with an inuke 1000dsp and was plenty even for his big room but he wanted more oomph so he got the 3000dsp and I bought his 1000dsp. I will be using the 1000dsp on 2 small sealed 1.5cf boxes with the Infinity 1262W. My space is small and needed something tiny I could hide easily in the room.

The fan mod is actually very simple on the inukes. If you go with a Noctua or something similar it will be pretty much silent. 2 Wires and you are done.

 

[tential]

I have a 4 CF enclosure halfway built but I can't do the subwoofer cutout because I don't know how to do anything with powertools lol. It sucks so much everything but the cutout done.
I was going to just by the tools but then I didn't want to mess up the box because while I'm not worried too much about the cutout, I am worried about a red gloss finish as I know it'll be really really hard to do well. So I got this 3CF box from parts express as well and I'm going to try my finish on that first.

The Infinity 1262W is recommended a LOT actually it's surprising to me. They model well though and hell, I could have just bought 4 of those straight up. But after reading/seeing the Dayton Ultimax's on so many AVSforum posts I had to jump in.

How do you like the 1262W? I just can't get over that stupid shiny thing of it. They're car audio subs though and car audio subs have designs that are supposed to look cool/show off.

I need to order the fan actually and the speakon adapter things.
My total Order Weight is apparently 187.30 lbs lol. And everything is coming TOMORROW! Oh lord lol, I'm no where close to ready to even start this endeavor.

Edit: Decko, if you want to demo my Ultimax 15 when it's done you're more than welcome to. It's going to take me awhile to finish building though but I'll probably drop in the Ultimax 15 to just test it in the box to make sure it works before I start painting and what not.
I'm in the Philly Area. The Ultimax 15 destroys the B&W sub you listed no contest. So you'll get an idea of what else is out there. I just really can't sit by and idly watch people throw money away that can be better spent on something else. It drives me insane.

 

[Deeko]

Since SVS suggested a pair of PB-2000s, order one and if you want compare it to the B&W. It's only 66lbs, not 150, and I bet it alone will win.

(Or if you want to compare small sealed to small sealed, try the SB-2000... Though for your purposes I think the PB makes more sense.)

Yea the PB-2000's are a lot lighter and less expensive, not as much of a chore as dealing with the PB12-Plus. In talking with the SVS people they said that for home theater, they'd even recommend the PB over dual SBs for the enhanced low-end response.

Best Buy is running a 10% off promotion, I might order the B&W and one of the SVS (haven't decided on PB-2000 or PB12-Plus yet) and just test them side by side. Hey, if all goes well, the B&W is a lot easier to return.

Just looked at the reviews for the subwoofer i Purchased OP.

Here is the first one.
"I had high expectations going into this. I thought if it is nearly as good as I expect I would be very happy. So I built a roughly 3 cft sealed box for it, stuffed it as recommended and bridged an inuke1000 into 4 ohms on this (VCs wired in series) and it blew me away. I have it coupled with an Epik Empire and a 10" sealed B&W in an 1800cft room, and this sub literally wipes the floor with both of those, put together.

It is very musical, it sounds great and unobtrusive, but plays with authority when it is called for. It plays every genre with ease and hardly breaks a sweat. That is what surprised me the most. I thought I would be using the empire and the B&W for music, and just turning this on for movies, but it is on all the time.

For movies, it digs deep and provides a scary amount of tight, punchy bass. I like it so much, I just ordered a second one, and am going to sell the 10" sub and run two of these with the epik empire. It is a good match for that sub if anyone is looking for multiples who owns one.

I cannot imagine wanting more from a subwoofer. Here is the link to my build with pics and graphs.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1529850/mcstyvies-15-sealed-sub-build"

His thread is still open. The sub you have though has more power handling, but at the end of the day, it's still a 10 inch subwoofer. Unless you have some type of subwoofer size constraint, the laws of physics are extremely against you using a 10 inch subwoofer for hometheater duty.

If I was you OP personally. I'd purchase everything I just did for $600. Then I'd spend that other $600 on upgrading my speakers. But that's just me personally as the volume level I listen at would just not work. Hell, that's the reason I'm getting rid of my B&W speakers. They sound good, just don't play at reference levels well compared to other cheaper DIY options.

Honestly, I realize that you can usually get better with a DIY option, in just about any space (not just speakers), but I just don't have the time for that. I'd go ID before I go DIY. And $600 really wouldn't be a HUGE upgrade for my front speakers. They're fine. When I do upgrade those, it will be a significant upgrade.

It's kind of funny because at that budget, OP has some of the BEST sub options available to him possible yet doesn't have the Home Theater experience yet to realize it. Kind of actually makes me upset that he can pick up the best home theater gear available on the market at that price but doesn't realize it so is considering the B&W.

There's nothing wrong with considering all options. The only truly ignorant option is to completely ignore something just because you don't like the brand. I am not against the idea of the ID companies and I am capable of reading a chart to understand why they're theoretically better. I've already voiced why the idea gives me pause - I don't like spending $1000+ on a product that's going to sit in my home theater for a decade or more that I've never seen or heard. I don't think that's unreasonable.

But well, now that I understand it more I realize why people looked at me like a complete retard when I asked

Asking for the opinions of someone with experience with a product isn't "completely retarded" by anyone's definition. Except maybe that guy that I muted, but I'm not terribly concerned with what he thinks anyway.

 

[tential]

Not going to hit on everything as really I just want to get to the point of getting you the system you need.

Looks like you got a few options:
Order the SVS and return it as they have a good no hassle return policy.
Look around your area and find people who will let you demo their speakers. SVS, HSU are EASY subs to find in the philadelphia area. I'm sure there are tons of people on avsforum who would let you demo their system.

Or head to the used section and try to find someone local and see if they'll let you demo the system before you buy.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ele/4366412930.html
That's pretty close to our area.

But yes, I understand that spending $1k+ on something you haven't heard can feel scary. I felt the same way about the Dayton Audio Ultimax 15 I just ordered. After awhile, that anxiety goes away and you already know what to expect after ordering a few products. Especially if you see a model of how it performs and know the specs.

Good luck though.

 

[vshah]

my dad has an older b&w asw-675. It's OK, underpowered for the room it's in for HT. very nice for music, but he usually runs music just on the 802s in stereo.

i agree the subs are overpriced for what you get.

 

[Deeko]

Ok, had a chat with my wife, made a "decision" - going to order the SVS PB-2000 and pick up the B&W while it's 10% off. Will trial them both. If I like the SVS better - great, return the bowers, be happy. If I really like the bowers better - I'll return the SVS and be happy. If I like the B&W better, but I'm not completely wowed or sure it's worth the money - I'll return the PB-2000 for either the PB12-Plus or SB13-Ultra, and make a final decision from there.

Whew...that was complicated.

 

[giantpandaman2]

Tell us how it goes.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

In that price range I would suggest also looking at Velodyne, HSU and SVS. I would also check on AVSForum. HT Magazine has done comparisons with subs in various price ranges and lists their use (HT, Music) as part of the review.

I have an Hsu sub and love it. Wife bought it for me one Xmas to replace the Paradigm sub that died prematurely. I've flirted with the idea of buying a second Hsu subwoofer (same make/model) as woofing can be quite addictive.

 

[Koing]

Yea, the 610XP would save some money over the 10CM, but it still gives me pause in that I'm concerned about spending that kind of money for a sub aimed at HT that's only 10".

Do you have one?

I have the ASW610, non XP and I really like it. I have the 865 for fronts as well coupled with a Sony 840 receiver. Plenty of power for my 5Mx5M room. I have some random eltax floor standers for rears that do the job IMO.

wtf? Why are they £500 now a days?! I'm fairly sure I paid about £330 or thereabouts in 2007? Maybe I paid more for them?!
http://www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk/p/b-w-asw610sub-woofer

I tested them with the Onkyo 607 (had it at the time, worked for 6months and the hdmi board started to go bad ), 864 fronts, htm63 center (have) and 685 rears. I decided to save some moneya nd go with the 865 for fronts and grab my dads eltax floor standers and use them as rears.

Let us know how you get on.

I'd probably upgrade the fronts before the sub though.

Koing

 

[Deeko]

Yea the ASW610 shouldn't cost that much, it's only $500 in the US, which is about equivalent to what you paid.

I really will get around to upgrading the fronts - but when I do, I'm getting something good that matches my center (so probably the CM9 or so), and I'll need a new receiver or amp for them, my Pioneer won't really do them justice. It's going to be a much more expensive upgrade than the sub - and considering the existing fronts are actually decent, whereas my existing sub is pretty meh, at least I can enjoy some good bass while I save up for the fronts.

 

[tential]

Yea the ASW610 shouldn't cost that much, it's only $500 in the US, which is about equivalent to what you paid.

I really will get around to upgrading the fronts - but when I do, I'm getting something good that matches my center (so probably the CM9 or so), and I'll need a new receiver or amp for them, my Pioneer won't really do them justice. It's going to be a much more expensive upgrade than the sub - and considering the existing fronts are actually decent, whereas my existing sub is pretty meh, at least I can enjoy some good bass while I save up for the fronts.

Lemme Preface this post by saying that if you rarely play your speakers at extremely loud/uncomfortable volumes then I wouldn't worry:

I'm not a huge fan of B&W ( I just can't be I'm a price/performance ratio person), but I am of the opinion that if you're going to purchase high end speakers like that, don't just power them off the receiver. Especially inefficient ones like the CM9 which has a weak sensitivity of 89db. Give them the power they need with an amplifier.

If you had more efficient speakers with 95+ sensitivity then I'd say sure, power them off your AVR no problem. But at an 89 db sensitivity, it's far cheaper to get a decent AVR with a decent amplifier that will for SURE have the power to run the speakers vs a great AVR with no amplifier.

Obviously a great AVR with a great amplifier would be desirable (or a dedicated preamp like emotiva or something) but just upgrading your Receiver really isn't the optimal thing to ensure your CM9 have enough power.

I have the Polk Monitor 70s (not for long I already have a buyer yay!) and I have blown them out multiple times while throwing parties due to lack of amplifier power. Had to upgrade the Receiver and when that wasn't enough, had to upgrade to a dedicated Amplifier. Having too little power for your speakers results in issues like blown Tweeters. The LAST thing you want to do is have to wait on a tweeter repair. Having already done it twice (and just replacing the tweeter in my B&W which cost so much if it's out of warranty), I highly recommend getting an AVR+Amplifier if you drive your system hard (Playing at reference level volume or higher).

Otherwise, just meh. After upgrading to a setup using an amplifier I'll never go back and that's why I have a CrownXLS, Just received my NU4-6000, and will purchase another Amp for my center channel when the time comes (Not too worried currently because I hope my AVR can handle one measily speaker and I rarely blast music/movies at the moment so I got some time to upgrade).
----------------------

This is a great read for the CM9 if you're interested.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333729/a...l-true-to-source-than-b-w-cm9-diamond-804/720

From this thread though I get the feeling that most alternatives in that thread will be meaningless to you since you won't be able to hear them and you've said in this thread multiple times you'd really dislike spending that kind of cash on something you cant hear (and while for subs I'm OK with that since I understand how it works relatively well, speakers leave me clueless and most discussions about their design are extremely hard for me to follow when you get very very deep into it)
Still thought it might be a good read though, I only skimmed a couple pages but the more information you have the better. Good luck.

 

[Koing]

Yea the ASW610 shouldn't cost that much, it's only $500 in the US, which is about equivalent to what you paid.

I really will get around to upgrading the fronts - but when I do, I'm getting something good that matches my center (so probably the CM9 or so), and I'll need a new receiver or amp for them, my Pioneer won't really do them justice. It's going to be a much more expensive upgrade than the sub - and considering the existing fronts are actually decent, whereas my existing sub is pretty meh, at least I can enjoy some good bass while I save up for the fronts.

The UK does get the shaft and we never get the conversion rate you guys get. It's basically like for like but for USD to GBP or a tad lower.

Gotcha.

Koing

 

[Deeko]

Ok, I got them both this week and have them hooked up and running. Haven’t tested too much yet, but here are some early impressions…

-Size: I knew this going in, but wow, the SVS is huge. The B&W is tiny by comparison. Although the B&W is very dense – it’s almost as heavy. Of course I knew all this from reading the specs, but it’s very noticeable in person. Comparison:

-Output: Haven’t cranked either up all the way, but I am not going to have a problem with output with either of these in my space. Both have plenty of power. I can feel both.

-Music: So far, have to give the edge to the B&W for music playback. Some of this might be fixed with tweaking my placement and settings, but the SVS just sounds a little more muddled with fast, heavy basslines. It wasn’t exactly an audiophile-grade test…I was using MP3s, so it’s not going to be the same as a concert blu ray or anything like that, but hey – most of the time when I’m listening to music, it IS MP3s, so at least it was realistic.

-Home Theater: More of a toss-up at this point. Only watched one movie so far, and it wasn’t really something that’s a great test for a subwoofer. But still, I swapped them halfway to experience both. The B&W sounded a bit smoother, and a little better with but the SVS definitely hit the low frequencies harder. In certain places, where there were extended deep bass sequences (rumbling / cracking type stuff), the B&W sounded somewhat…hollow. It’s not that it wasn’t hitting those frequencies, it just didn’t sound as good while doing it.

To explain what I’m saying…before watching a movie, I did a quick test of each using the same passage from Transformers. It starts with a voiceover by Optimus Prime and transitions into some robots stomping around. The voiceover part was very well accentuated by the B&W – it sounded like being in a theater. The stomping definitely felt stronger & clearer from the SVS, though.

For what it’s worth, as you might expect, my wife likes the B&W better. She’s probably biased by the smaller, prettier box, but she thinks it sounds better. Still have about 40 days of testing before I have to decide. I’ll play around with both and see what happens.

 

[vi edit]

If you wanted something more musical and accurate then the SB series from SVS was the way to go. After doing quite a bit of DIY stuff and several internet direct ported designs, my favorite subwoofer was a little 12" Dayton RS sub in a heavily constructed and reinforced cabinet. With the driver in it that box weighed close to 80 pounds. That little bastard pounded hard with only 250w thrown at it.

I don't really care about what others say, to my ears the sealed solutions *do* sound much better for music and midrange slams. They run out of gas and roll off heavily when you get outside of their tuning though.

I'm not surprised by your results. If you want something "small and pretty" to appeal to the wife you are looking at sealed designs. They also tend to favor music at the expense of big thundering booms to larger, ported designs. Not that they can't do that, it just takes more space, more expensive drivers, and more juice to do it.

 

[Paul98]

Make SURE you calibrate those subs, otherwise you won't get an accurate comparison.

 

[biostud]

It took some time and various setting before my sub sounds good with both music and movies.

At first the volume and low-pass filter was set too high, which is fine for movies but sounded "boomy" with music, so it took some fiddling to find a sweet spot both for volume and low pass.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Make SURE you calibrate those subs, otherwise you won't get an accurate comparison.

This is an understatement!

Years ago when I went into buy my first gear as an adult I was stunned by how different source electronics, processors, amplifiers and speaker combinations could easily change what I heard with my ears.

I never listened by looking at whatever the combination was. This should be like buy Apple products (I bought it because its pretty). Even making everything the same but the speakers and comparing different lines from the same maker was very surprising.

It took a while and with a lot of patience with a lot of help from two or three shops, but in the end I identified the sound I liked and bought the chain of components. I was very happy in the end and I still have the same speakers.

Unfortunately, a lot of electronics change over time and while some pieces of the puzzle outlast others this in turn forces the new reality in that you may not be able to reproduce that sound you fell in love with. I would never consider an audio invest worth 5-7 at most simply because if you change something the end result will likely change and your impression of the NEW end result follows Murphy's Law.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Oh, I forgot something important. Because the returns on investment are not linear, you can look at charts and professional reviews until you die from exhaustion and in the end it makes no difference. The only thing that should make sense is how you like what you are hearing for the bucks you are spending.

But then again some buy cars because of looks and nothing more.

 

[tential]

Make SURE you calibrate those subs, otherwise you won't get an accurate comparison.

Calibrate ANYTHING for that matter or everything you did was essentially useless.

I just got around to recalibrating my theater system for my room (all the settings were setup for my room at school and I hadn't even begun to setup anything for the B&W speakers I had added to my system).

Everything sounded more "muddy" before hand but with calibration, it sounded a lot better. I'm very happy with how things sound but the B&W center channel feels like a joke compared to what I WANT it to be capable of which is driving me crazy right now.

Also, each subwoofer is going to have a different optimal placement location (if I'm not mistaken they should be different right?). You can't test subwoofers against each other by simply plopping them down anywhere and testing. At minimum if you're going to test against eachother they should be tested in the same spot.

As for the B&W being preferred by the wife, like I said, there is an element that B&W and other more commercial guys have over the internet direct companies. The B&W type companies know what will be more liked in a home and are much better at WAF compared to internet direct companies. If you're married and are trying to please a wife, I'd just get the B&W and call it a day.

Also, if you don't need the headroom/output of the SVS sub then I wouldn't get it as well. For enthusisasts though, I definitely would stick with the SVS sub. I'm not sure if you went ported or sealed though with the SVS but like someone just mentioned, some people like sealed for music more. My sealed subwoofer build should be done by Wednesday next week and I'll be comparing it to my ported Klipsch RW-12D before I start painting it. There definitely is a difference between ported vs sealed though so you probably should have picked up either both sealed subs or both ported subs. You may simply want a sealed sub.