Anyone have a llano rig yet

[Accord99]

Why make such an effort (looking for the worse case scenario on the web) when you have a more reliable source here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4476/amd-a83850-review/9

I consider silentpcreview.com very reliable. Anyways, its clear Llano uses a lot more power than comparable throughput i3 processors when doing something CPU intensive and most reviews show it probably uses more power than even the i7-2600K, which has more than twice the throughput.

 

[piesquared]

I think AMD missed the boat a bit on this one. The gaming potential is marginally better than the i3, but still out of reach of playing modern games. Can you run Doom 3? Sure, but I don't know many casual consumers that want to find that perfect PC to play 10 year old games. I'm not saying there isn't a market for these. It is just really small compared to what it could be. Then again, they have to make the first steps eventually.

For a desktop, there are better options. For a laptop, things get interesting.

Marginally better. Here comes the FUD, what a bunch of bullshit. It's more than 2x better, and would be much higher than that if IntEl could match image quality.







http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=31057&page=5

 

[Arsynic]

My Llano rig will be strictly HTPC.

 

[Spikesoldier]

I really hope FM1 takes off. Paltry CPU power can be overcome with later releases that also improve on GPU performance as well.

Think of it, upgrading an existing FM1 system two or three years down the road with just the CPU. No windows re-install. If AMD can sustain backward-compatibility, I think they've got a winner in this budget gaming sector. I really think this product will have much more success overseas vs stateside.

Perfect for light users. As expected, generating a lot of hate from the enthusiasts, but this platform is for:

1. People on a budget and want to game
2. Kids/Students/Mom&Dad
3. Small form factor (OEM/LAN/HTPC builds)

Not:
1. Enthusiasts who are accustomed to high expectations
2. People who want to pair this platform with a $500 VGA card
3. People who already own a regular gaming PC bought/assembled in the past two years

 

[Arsynic]

Once they release some mini ITX boards, I might do a build for a friend looking for a light gaming rig.

They're all over Newegg.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

They're all over Newegg.

There are no mini-ITX FM1 socket boards at Newegg. AFAIK none are available anywhere from a US-based retailer.

 

[dali71]

They're all over Newegg.

All those certifications, but can't differentiate mobo form factors...

 

[hans007]

All those certifications, but can't differentiate mobo form factors...

ouch... burn

though i can't say certs are all that great. i bought my brother a pile of parts for his birthday last november to build his own first computer. he was a receptionist and had no idea how to build a computer. now he's a receptionist with an A+ cert.

as for the itx thing, i hope they get that a8-3800 out soon. most of the itx cases are not going to be able to fit a cooler for a 100W TDP cpu, and if you've seen some of those power consumption charts, when gpu + cpu on the 3850 are loaded it can definitely use most of that 100W ceiling. an itx case big enough for a 100W heatsink is not going to be very small or thin , which sort of defeats the purpose of itx.

 

[Gikaseixas]

He might find himself wishing for more of a constant 60fps+ feeling, or he may want to give the next COD game a try. He might even decide to check out BF3 if it turns out to be as epic as it might be. Who knows, but much like my attitude on firearms, bigger is usually better

Prices as they stand, it makes no sense for a desktop buyer who wants to game to buy a Llano, unless they *have* to have an itx box with no discrete card at all. Which would end up pretty disappointing if you can only play older titles at low resolutions/etc. Same $$ can buy a much more powerful PhII rig with a better GPU, although you do miss out on USB3 with the affordable mobos afaik. That's a cheap remedy for those who care though, with $20ish PCIe cards for that purpose.

Now throw MC deals/stacking rebates/etc into the mix, and it starts looking more attractive, as in the scenario below where someone mentions being able to get by on it until they can afford a real GPU. I'm thinking around $120-$160 AR for a mobo/llano, and that's a pretty good entry point. At $220-$240, it's just too much when you consider the performance you give up compared to even a GPU from a couple gens back like a 4870. Hell people have been linking to GTX460s AR in the rough $100-$110 range, that's like a supercharged V8 compared to the LLano's 1.5L i4, or the Intel HD integrated's moped.

OP said: I could get a llano rig, play thru my older pc games while I save money for a decent video card.

You're saying: he may want to give the next COD game a try. He might even decide to check out BF3

something doesnt compute here. For the games you mentioned i would recommend a proper GPU. Llano is not for hardcore gamers. Nobody's disputing how much more powerful a GTX 460 is, that's just you feeling the need to make that point. Is Llano really that bad for HTPC setup? I think it is the first time you could say that one can play not so demanding games at 720p on a integrated GPU. Quite an achievement in my book.

 

[Inspire]

The people who are most likely to use Llano are the people who probably will not want to do a CPU swap. If they are still using P4s, they are probably squeamish about changing anything about their PC.

We'll see about backwards compatability with future FMx sockets. I do agree if they keep some backwards compatability they do have a winner.

Unless the desire is for a small form factor PC with no video card, Llano is currently a bit too pricey. Prices will come down no doubt and I'm sure many fence sitters will jump on board if the price is right.

Now for laptops, Llano is a huge win. Of course, if the price is right.
I'm shopping for one now.

I really hope FM1 takes off. Paltry CPU power can be overcome with later releases that also improve on GPU performance as well.

Think of it, upgrading an existing FM1 system with just the CPU. No windows re-install. If AMD can sustain backward-compatibility, I think they've got a winner in this budget gaming sector. I really think this product will have much more success overseas vs stateside.

Perfect for light users. As expected, generating a lot of hate from the enthusiasts, but this platform is for:

1. People on a budget and want to game
2. Kids/Students/Mom&Dad
3. Small form factor (OEM/LAN/HTPC builds)

Not:
1. Enthusiasts who are accustomed to high expectations
2. People who want to pair this platform with a $500 VGA card
3. People who already own a regular gaming PC bought/assembled in the past two years

 

[Subyman]

Marginally better. Here comes the FUD, what a bunch of bullshit. It's more than 2x better, and would be much higher than that if IntEl could match image quality.

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=31057&page=5

What do power levels have to do with what I said?

 

[toyota]

The people who are most likely to use Llano are the people who probably will not want to do a CPU swap. If they are still using P4s, they are probably squeamish about changing anything about their PC.

We'll see about backwards compatability with future FMx sockets. I do agree if they keep some backwards compatability they do have a winner.

Unless the desire is for a small form factor PC with no video card, Llano is currently a bit too pricey. Prices will come down no doubt and I'm sure many fence sitters will jump on board if the price is right.

Now for laptops, Llano is a huge win. Of course, if the price is right.
I'm shopping for one now.

I doubt the typical person still using a P4 would ever even know what the heck Llano is.

 

[Spikesoldier]

The people who are most likely to use Llano are the people who probably will not want to do a CPU swap. If they are still using P4s, they are probably squeamish about changing anything about their PC.

I've edited my post to reflect my original thought, which was to upgrading the APU after a few years of service.

I agree 100% that it will be a hit with the crowd you described. The no-windows reinstall is a bonus kicker too.

 

[Spikesoldier]

I doubt the typical person still using a P4 would ever even know what the heck Llano is.

When they see it on sale for 'only' $299 at BB and playing WoW much better than their P4 and 6600GT at home.

 

[Arsynic]

All those certifications, but can't differentiate mobo form factors...

I thought you guys were talking about AMD APU ITX motherboards.

Also, I'm a Network Engineer, not a PC tech that keeps up with this shit 24/7.

 

[toyota]

When they see it on sale for 'only' $299 at BB and playing WoW much better than their P4 and 6600GT at home.

well considering even the much lower end horrifically slow Zacate comps are $289 at Best Buy, I do not see $299 being the price point. either way I still imagine the average P4 gamer living in a world that has passed them by and not even caring, lol.

 

[ElFenix]

I thought you guys were talking about AMD APU ITX motherboards.

Also, I'm a Network Engineer, not a PC tech that keeps up with this shit 24/7.

amd has another 'fusion' product, brazos. it's a netbook/set top box processor. lots of those available.

 

[Necc]

People on P4 northwood wont upgrade to any platform if they play that only game that runs 'fine' on there system. I have a bunch of friends that are CS 1.6 enthusiasts sincs it came out. they have zero intrest upgrading there systems, heck they are still on 19-21 CRTs. Ithink the same goes for WOW players. if they are got used to it, and for them is more then enough. they wont upgrade.

Hell idont even think that they care, for not so much money they can build a decent system.

 

[Mopetar]

I was thinking about it. But AMD should have done a few things different with it.

1. All Desktop Llano's should have 400 radeon cores standard. Dual-Core, Quad-Core, Hexa-Core(If it ever comes to that). I don't care. Having that much GPU horsepower on even the slowest duallys would've been a major Marketing and Mindshare boost.

This wouldn't work out at all as it's still possible that some of the defects that occur will be located in the GPU portion of the chip. These are the chips that get sold with fewer cores. Llano would cost a lot more if AMD wasn't binning their chips.

2. Dual Graphics should have atleast went up the 68xx series. 69xx is forgivable because it's not very likely that someone who spends 150$ on an APU will spend another 350$ on a gpu. The 6750 is only 35$ more than the 6670.

I'm not positive, but there may be some architectural differences that prevent this from working. The 5700 and 6700 series are Juniper designs, whereas the graphics in Llano are based on Turks. Discrete cards from the two aren't compatible so either it's an arbitrary decision, or differences in the designs make them incompatible.

3. It's still not an upgrade for current Core 2 & K10 users. If first gen Llano had Bulldozer based cores, then Hell Yeah! I'd upgrade from my current K10 right away.

If the first generation of Llano processors used Bulldozer cores, then you'd still be waiting a few more months for them to come out. Otherwise you can wait until Trinity which is slated to use BD cores.

 

[Arkaign]

OP said: I could get a llano rig, play thru my older pc games while I save money for a decent video card.

You're saying: he may want to give the next COD game a try. He might even decide to check out BF3

something doesnt compute here. For the games you mentioned i would recommend a proper GPU. Llano is not for hardcore gamers. Nobody's disputing how much more powerful a GTX 460 is, that's just you feeling the need to make that point. Is Llano really that bad for HTPC setup? I think it is the first time you could say that one can play not so demanding games at 720p on a integrated GPU. Quite an achievement in my book.

Oh yeah, no disagreement, I think even in present form, llano is a great HTPC start, probably better still to use the A6 given the TDP worries in tiny cases/psus. Even with some minor bugs, it's superior imho to Intel IGP, and I trust AMD will iron out some minor kinks like the lack of the driver tags for BD3D soon.

Where I divert somewhat is the idea of buying llano as is with the intention of gaming on it while waiting for a GPU, given the current pricing overlaps with better options, so long as you're willing to deal with a MicroATX case rather than something even smaller or low profile. The price of an A6 and mobo appears to be around $220, and the A8 combo around $240 at present. With those prices in mind, one could toss together a much more powerful combo while giving up the decent built-in GPU, and giving up mobo-present USB3. By this, I mean you can take a $100 PhII 840 AM3, a $50 AM3 mobo, and you have $70-$90 to get a decent GPU going by those prices. And a USB3 PCIe card is about $20, so no biggie either way there. So, same prices should net you something like a GTS450 ($70), HD6750 ($100), or any number of rebate deals on superior products.

Now comes a big pair of caveats though, and the first is that if prices on the llano chips/mobos fall rapidly, then it becomes a lot more attractive. Once you can get a llano for about $80-$100, and a board for $50-$70, then it makes sense to start there, and possibly add a GPU later if needed. The other caveat is big OEM packaging. It's much much more likely that buyers will see cheap llano-based systems than equally or even similarly priced cheap systems that have say an HD6750 in them. So in a way this is a non-issue. People that know what they're doing and don't care about SFF will skip llano for desktop use, while others will jump on it for SFFs, while the mass market customers may choose it from WalMart or Best Buy or whatever if it looks like a good deal at $300-$400 complete and ready to go.

 

[ShadowVVL]

I think llano is pretty good for the price.I hope trinity will have speeds near the i7 920 but I wonder if amd will be focusing more on gpu power then cpu power.

Hope 2012 will be a awesome year for low power cpus, apus, ITX builds & 7200rpm spindle drives

 

[Bman123]

At its current price its a no go, once you can get free mobos from mc when you buy the chip then it will really be worth it. Right now for the same price you can get a phenom 2 x4 cpu, mobo, RAM and psu from mc lol.

 

[Bman123]

Llano isa good sign of great things to come in the next few years

 

[yottabit]

Ithink the same goes for WOW players. if they are got used to it, and for them is more then enough. they wont upgrade.

I don't know.. I think there are some very casual WoW gamers that feel that way, but everyone I know that has gotten even fairly serious about it has wanted to upgrade their computer. Believe it or not you need a very good system to run WoW with good graphics and no slowdowns.

For instance, I just built a system for a friend who ONLY plays WoW: 2500k @ 4 ghz, 4GB DDR3, Radeon 5850, and he get's constant 60 fps @ 1080p with ultra graphics on everything EXCEPT shadow quality which will kill his graphics. My i5 750/5770 can pretty much get constant 60 fps on Good settings. Going to Ultra will drop it into the 30s and below in action.

It's amazing how well the game scales on crappy systems though. I just had it running okay on a Athlon II 230 with a 760g IGP... on lowest settings. Same with Starcraft II, I can play it on my 2006 laptop or it can cripple my desktop depending on how I set it

 

[Ultralight]

PC Perspective has a great podcast and the significant improvements that an overclock has on gaming with Llano.