Anyone have a llano rig yet

[Edgy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subyman
Eh, I would just pick up a used 4870 or 400-series Nvidia for 50 bucks and play mw2 maxed... That's my point. Llano only makes complete sense for a laptop. With a z68, htpc guys can turn on and off the graphics card, using it only when needed.

I'm putting together an inexpensive secondary rig to play some games, and did exactly this (4870). Decided to go match it with an i3-2100. I think I'll have paid about the same as an A8 + mobo, and should get much better performance.

I agree, Llano only makes sense if balancing performance with compactness is a big criteria.

Umm...

i3-2100 + 4870 might be approximately similar $$ compared to A8 + MB... BUT not if you add in the cost of MB for i3 system.

Llano makes sense for budget gaming on desktops - I don't think this is debatable.

 

[Arkaign]

Umm...

i3-2100 + 4870 might be approximately similar $$ compared to A8 + MB... BUT not if you add in the cost of MB for i3 system.

Llano makes sense for budget gaming on desktops - I don't think this is debatable.

A8 is $140?

So, $140 for A8-3850
Cheapest FM1 mobo is $70, so $210

i3-2100 is $125
Cheapest 1155 mobo is $55, so $180

Push another $20 bill or so on top of that $30 savings, and boom, used 4870 (or 6670 new AR or whatev).

So yeah, very debatable. Even better imho would be a PhII build with a $40 AR mobo, leaving enough to get a 5770

 

[hans007]

That's not really fair given you'd have to get an h67 with USB 3 to have an equivalent mobo

 

[Arkaign]

That's not really fair given you'd have to get an h67 with USB 3 to have an equivalent mobo

meh. usb3 pcie is 15 bucks. I think most people don't care yet. I have usb3 but still use usb2 and esata as thats what my drives are.

A gamer would certainly prefer much better gaming over having native usb3.

 

[hans007]

meh. usb3 pcie is 15 bucks. I think most people don't care yet. I have usb3 but still use usb2 and esata as thats what my drives are.

A gamer would certainly prefer much better gaming over having native usb3.

still i guess my point is the really cheap H61 boards on newegg are not very well featured and trying to swing the cost balance an extra $15 over this seems a little much. i mean apples to apples we can say the motherboards are effectively the same. the FM1 boards will get cheaper when they have their USB 3 / sata 3 m issing versions when the A55 comes out eventaully.

i mean i agree, if you want to really game, buy a h61 + core i3 2100 and some used card just justifying it on cost because of that motherboard edge seems to almost undermine the argument since its due to differeing motherboard features

 

[StrangerGuy]

still i guess my point is the really cheap H61 boards on newegg are not very well featured and trying to swing the cost balance an extra $15 over this seems a little much. i mean apples to apples we can say the motherboards are effectively the same. the FM1 boards will get cheaper when they have their USB 3 / sata 3 m issing versions when the A55 comes out eventaully.

i mean i agree, if you want to really game, buy a h61 + core i3 2100 and some used card just justifying it on cost because of that motherboard edge seems to almost undermine the argument since its due to differeing motherboard features

Don't forget DDR3 clocks for SB doesn't matter while it does quite a lot of Llano.

The FM1 low-end boards have the advantage of USB3 (might be useful to some) and SATA3 (useless for HDDs over SATA2, most likely the same to SSDs)

 

[Arkaign]

still i guess my point is the really cheap H61 boards on newegg are not very well featured and trying to swing the cost balance an extra $15 over this seems a little much. i mean apples to apples we can say the motherboards are effectively the same. the FM1 boards will get cheaper when they have their USB 3 / sata 3 m issing versions when the A55 comes out eventaully.

i mean i agree, if you want to really game, buy a h61 + core i3 2100 and some used card just justifying it on cost because of that motherboard edge seems to almost undermine the argument since its due to differeing motherboard features

Yeah the cheap 1155 boards are pretty bare, though I do imagine they're good enough for most budget-minded users (they're about the same as what you see in typical cheap major OEM systems or better). USB3 will eventually be super awesome when it becomes more widespread, I don't like the inconvenience factor of eSata. Sata3, hmm, maybe quite some time before we see this being useful.

Fwiw, I think the Llano's real budget competitor is AM3 stuff, not SB, at least for gamers. On that site that compared the A8-3850 w/DDR3-1866 IGP to various discrete cards, a lot of the games were running pretty poorly even at 1280x800 with low details, I think that's only gonna get worse as newer titles come through. And DDR3-1866 isn't nearly as cheap as generic 1333 DDR3, which gives a 15-25% performance hit to the A8.

A gamer with a PhII or Athlon II setup on a cheap AM3 mobo would have the room left in the budget for something pretty decent.

Let's say :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-846-_-Product

with

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813186188

That's $130 total, so leaving $80 for GPU and staying at same price point. Which is something like this GDDR5 6670 XFX card if you want all new stuff.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150545

Of course $80 on the used market is easily even better.

Something that can't be stressed enough though, is that I'm talking about a REALLY small portion of computer buyers though.

(1)- Extreme budget
(2)- Gamer
(3)- Knows enough to shop/build their own

For someone needing a ready-to-go system from BB/Fry's/WalMart/etc, I expect that Llano will easily be a top choice, given I almost never see basic systems with discrete cards in them.

 

[cebalrai]

If I want to build a Llano rig with dual graphics, how do I know what GPU to get? Are there some that don't work with it? Are there some that work but wouldn't show a measurable benefit - or even a decrease in performance?

 

[nonameo]

stuff

The worst part of it is, if you DID go into say, walmart, best buy, staples, etc. and you bought one of those low end systems... if you wanted to also buy a video card, your selection would be limited to heavily overpriced ddr2 lower end cards and less heavily overpriced (but still overpriced) higher but not quite high end cards.

I don't even think walmart would have that second option. Just the first one. geforce 6200 with 4gb ddr2 woohoo! look at that number! 4 gigs gonna fly! buy me buy me just $99.99!!!

 

[dennilfloss]

Surprised to find out Llano is a desktop part. All this time I thought integrated CPU+GPU modules were for laptops. In fact I was contemplating buying a low-cost Llano notebook some day soon as I see laptops advertised with Intel's HD 3000.

 

[toolbag]

If I want to build a Llano rig with dual graphics, how do I know what GPU to get? Are there some that don't work with it? Are there some that work but wouldn't show a measurable benefit - or even a decrease in performance?

I think you need a 6 series to run both.

 

[cebalrai]

I think you need a 6 series to run both.

Ah I found it. On amd's website it tells which ones to use - basically any budget or midrange 6000-series GPU up to the 6670. Benchmarks over at Tom's Hardware show a very nice performance increase using Dual Graphics. They test APU only, GPU only, and Dual. Basically the increase you get from APU to GPU-only is the same as what you get from GPU-only to dual. And this will likely get even better with driver maturity. Not bad at all.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3500m-llano-apu,2959-8.html


By the way, I keep reading that Turbo Core 2.0 doesn't do much - and is extremely hard to measure. Anyone hearing the same thing?

Lastly I'm looking at getting this laptop: http://www.amazon.com/Gateway-NV75S0.../ref=de_a_smtd

It's got a 1.5 Ghz A8 processor... Quad core but 1.5 ghz seems really slow. My Turion X2 laptop is 2.0 ghz.... Would this A8 really be slower than that? :\

 

[cebalrai]

What about two HD 6670s in crossfire with Dual Graphics? Possible?

 

[Blue Shift]

My Turion X2 laptop is 2.0 ghz.... Would this A8 really be slower than that? :\

To put it simply, no.

 

[hans007]

Well I am installing windows on my new llano rig. Any odd benchmark that anyone wants run that wasn't in AnandTech review and is downloadable free somewhere?

 

[cebalrai]

To put it simply, no.

Seems like 1.5 ghz is really slow.... About like a mobile Phenom at that speed, no?

 

[dennilfloss]

Is this a Llano laptop?

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...81cbc65265en02

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Is this a Llano laptop?

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...81cbc65265en02

Yes.

 

[dennilfloss]

Thanks. I just found confirmation too.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4444/amd-llano-notebook-review-a-series-fusion-apu-a8-3500m/5

Found another one. Smaller screen but looks like faster hardware.

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/prod...spx?path=3460c887001bb26abd3cb5cd4ae653aden02

 

[cebalrai]

Thanks. I just found confirmation too.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4444/amd-llano-notebook-review-a-series-fusion-apu-a8-3500m/5

Found another one. Smaller screen but looks like faster hardware.

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...cd4ae653aden02

I'm an inch away from pulling the trigger on a laptop like this. I don't want to settle for a 1.5 ghz CPU though - I want the 1.8 or 1.9Ghz versions with a 17" screen... That combination seems not to exist however...

 

[dennilfloss]

The 1.5GHz turboes to 2.4 whereas the 1.9 turboes to 2.6 according to the review I just linked. Not much difference. The 15.6" laptop has less RAM (6 vs 8) but it's faster.

 

[MangoX]

Mhmm, too pricey.

 

[cebalrai]

The 1.5GHz turboes to 2.4 whereas the 1.9 turboes to 2.6 according to the review I just linked. Not much difference. The 15.6" laptop has less RAM (6 vs 8) but it's faster.

I keep seeing things saying Turbo Core 2.0 doesn't really do anything. So 1.5 ghz seems like a rough option.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3500m-llano-apu,2959-16.html

Also 6 GB of ram isn;t going to be dual-channel, right? a 4 GB and 2 GB stick? I'd think the APU could probably benefit from as much memory bandwidth as possible so dual-channel is a must.

 

[Vesku]

I thought the same thing from Tom's Hardware numbers, did they just get a beta notebook with non-functional turbo?

 

[cebalrai]

I thought the same thing from Tom's Hardware numbers, did they just get a beta notebook with non-functional turbo?

I don't know, but if Turbo Core 2.0 doesn't work it's a huge negative for Llano. Anyone see any evidence that it actually works?