Anyone else looking forward to Wildstar?

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Autoattack is better because you don't have to mash the buttons for every single attack, ad nauseam. Everquest did it best by having autoattack be the primary and special abilities required extra clicks. Late EQ of 5-6 years ago best of all. And it was actually quite different from EQ of 1999, but nevertheless, lots of people feel like new games MUST do something different at all costs in every single category, be it combat, progression, or whatever.

I'm up in the air about that. Wildstar doesn't have an autoattack (for players), but they don't have a true basic attack either so it's not like they're making you spam attack for the sake of spamming attack. Granted, there's generally an ability you're going to use when you have nothing else to do, but it has a different feel to it than just normal attacks and it all meshes with the whole combat system. Also, there's more than one "normal attack" and depending on your build you will you different ones.

You can have a game that's good with auto-attacks, but autoattacks aren't "better." They're just different.

 

[Hacp]

Autoattack is better because you don't have to mash the buttons for every single attack, ad nauseam. Everquest did it best by having autoattack be the primary and special abilities required extra clicks. Late EQ of 5-6 years ago best of all. And it was actually quite different from EQ of 1999, but nevertheless, lots of people feel like new games MUST do something different at all costs in every single category, be it combat, progression, or whatever.

I believe there is a hold down key to continue using ability. So you just press once and hold the button to use the same ability. Sort of like auto-attack.

 

[imaheadcase]

I can't stand this game, what is with all the hand holding in games now. Might as well make a walkthrough video and put it on youtube and say "This is our game, see it play itself".

 

[pathos]

I played around with the game a little more today. You know, the game loves to throw challenges at me when I least expect it...and don't want them

And, whats worse is, alot of the challenges seem to be not very well thought out. I mean, I had one challenge to jump throw fireflies so many times during a certain amount of time...and I found 1 spawn point of them, in total. And, I ran around for quite some time, even after the challenge was over, looking for more of them (had a quest that needed them to).

I had 1 of the soldier challenges, the ones were you fight off waves of enemies, right there at the edge of an enemy base, which had patrols roaming about. Managed to get a wave of 3, plus like 3 sentry bots on me at the same time.

And then, i had a quest to "scare" a certain mob type with some noise flare or something...but, I think there was also a challenge for killing them. Add into the fact there only seemed to be about 4 spawns of them, and 7 or 8 people in there killing them for the challenge (that or just being stupid)...made the quest rather hard to complete.

I do know though, that if I do at some point decide to buy the game to play it, I'll have to brush up on my combat knowledge. And, I'm not referring to dodging the red ae areas. That doesn't really take any skill to do that. More like, just takes you not being completely incompetent.

What I'm talking about is, why I can attack the same type of mob, back to back, and the first time I can breeze through it, and the 2nd is a complete struggle. Normally it seems to come down to, I'm just not doing that much damage, in the latter case. Or rather, I can attack a mob, and it's health won't move at all. Its possible I'm taking some kind of lag spikes that are causing it, or perhaps the game has some collision issues, and like the mob is someone getting under the attack, instead of standing in the middle of it.

Or, perhaps the current build I'm running just sucks. I haven't really been motivated enough to try looking at the combat logs to try pinning it down.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Ignoring combat, how is Wildstar from other aspects? Like stuff to explore, beautiful views, is there a bazaar where you can shop for stuff from other players?

 

[Rinaun]

After playing Archeage for a few days and watching a friend play some Wildstar, I can see why MMOs like Wildstar will fail in the long run. It's because they are trying way way too hard to fill a void that hasn't yet occurred. Archeage is like AOC but added so many new features that it makes it worth playing, whereas Wildstar's version of "new MMO features" is just a paint change and a slight tinker from what WoW still offers, and WoW has much much heritage/lineage behind the IP. People don't WANT more WoW clones, I think SWTOR proved this strongly and WoW's numbers are starting to not drop as rapidly as they did in the last 12 months. People who AREN'T playing WoW want NEW, EXCITING gameplay styles in new MMOs. Nobody wants to kill 7/7 deer to be told to go kill 10/10 pigs right after, but people don't seem to mind killing 7/7 deer, then building a house or some tangible, in-game creation like you can in Archeage. I mean just the Court System in Archeage alone makes me want to play it.

Archeage is my example of choice because it's all I've played, but the bottom line is if MMOs want to be successful in the coming decade, they need to start distancing themselves from old formulas. Look at the MMO curve; we went from crazy grinding in the MMO's of the early 2000's to now most MMOs you can hit level cap in 2-3 days and be raiding within a week or two of level cap. This isn't like a game of poker, what players want changes over time.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

After playing Archeage for a few days and watching a friend play some Wildstar, I can see why MMOs like Wildstar will fail in the long run. It's because they are trying way way too hard to fill a void that hasn't yet occurred. Archeage is like AOC but added so many new features that it makes it worth playing, whereas Wildstar's version of "new MMO features" is just a paint change and a slight tinker from what WoW still offers, and WoW has much much heritage/lineage behind the IP. People don't WANT more WoW clones, I think SWTOR proved this strongly and WoW's numbers are starting to not drop as rapidly as they did in the last 12 months. People who AREN'T playing WoW want NEW, EXCITING gameplay styles in new MMOs. Nobody wants to kill 7/7 deer to be told to go kill 10/10 pigs right after, but people don't seem to mind killing 7/7 deer, then building a house or some tangible, in-game creation like you can in Archeage. I mean just the Court System in Archeage alone makes me want to play it.

Archeage is my example of choice because it's all I've played, but the bottom line is if MMOs want to be successful in the coming decade, they need to start distancing themselves from old formulas. Look at the MMO curve; we went from crazy grinding in the MMO's of the early 2000's to now most MMOs you can hit level cap in 2-3 days and be raiding within a week or two of level cap. This isn't like a game of poker, what players want changes over time.

Lol, based on the game I've played and the game I've watched a little.

Wildstar does a lot more than just clone WoW. It's kind of a mix of bringing in new highly polished ideas (housing/combat/etc) (new compared to WoW), trying to bring back the things that people loved in earlier WoW, and trying to maintain content for everyone.

 

[Rinaun]

Lol, based on the game I've played and the game I've watched a little.

Look, I'm happy you like the game. Saying Wildstar isn't a WoW clone would be so retarded that you'd just make yourself look like you have no idea what you are talking about. This game is hands-down a WoW/SWTOR clone. Secondly I watched someone play it live at my house, not some stream. I have no desire to play a SWTOR/WoW clone but I still wanted to know what I was missing. So far the friend I viewed and others have said I'm not missing much. These same people also agree that it's very similar to WoW.


P.S: Watching a high level beta player do PVP is less educational/insight in regards to gameplay compared to me playing the first 10 levels during a stress weekend? Ok..........

P.P.S: Not a WoW Clone? First thing I google and this comes up:

http://hzero.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/wildstar-art-style.png?w=627

double OK on "this game isn't a WoW clone". I'm not even going to waste time finding evidence to prove that this is just a WoW clone with 10-15% new features. I just want people to know that this game will end up like SWTOR, which is a shame. SWTOR was done on a proven IP and it still failed, what makes Wildstar much different? It's already being called out for too much handholding.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Saying it is a WoW clone when the combat is completely different... Yea, that alone makes total sense. Might as well just say any MMO is a WoW clone. They brought many good things from WoW over, but simply dismissing it as "a WoW clone" cause you know it has similar asthetics and you group up to do stuff is you know stupid.

Your free to your opinions, but you seriously thinking barely playing the game and watching it a bit is giving you extensive insight into it and allowing you to make deep insightful comparisons to other games is frankly laughable. You have no idea the game even has an extensive customization housing system that has a great deal of effect on the rest of the game.

I like the game so far. I think if you actually read my posts you'd see I'm somewhat hopeful, but hardly trying to defend every aspect of the game or can do no wrong. It's just funny to see someone who watched someone play call "failure" on a game. Even funnier to have them then call me bias (pot meet kettle much?).

 

[Rinaun]

Saying it is a WoW clone when the combat is completely different... Yea, that alone makes total sense. Might as well just say any MMO is a WoW clone.

I'm pretty sure that's a huge fallacy (straw man), but ok. I don't think adding 3 new features to what WoW already did flawlessly is going to make Wildstar a huge and long-lasting game. I've also played WAY too many MMOS (over 10 now) to know that if you don't bring new features by the truckload, people won't be interested in playing long-term.

They brought many good things from WoW over, but simply dismissing it as "a WoW clone" cause you know it has similar asthetics and you group up to do stuff is you know stupid.

So wait, first it's not a WoW clone, but then they brought over "many good things". Can you make up your mind, bro? If you take 70% of WoW, add in a nifty combat system like smite and add in player housing, it's not a new game. Sorry, but it's NOT. NEW. If you think it is that's fine, but so many people disagree with you it hurts to argue this. Combat system? Really man? It's smite's combat system. It's pretty blatantly stolen might I add. Smite was in Alpha over a year ago.

Your free to your opinions, but you seriously thinking barely playing the game and watching it a bit is giving you extensive insight into it and allowing you to make deep insightful comparisons to other games is frankly laughable.

You have no idea how long I've watched people play this game, do you? You keep assuming things about my experience and frankly I'm a bit tired of trying to prove that I know what I'm talking about. This happens with every new MMO and people like you (fanboys on the fence or diehard fanboys) end up being non-existent in the community within 6-8 months of release because you move onto the next MMO. This was proven in so many MMOS since WoW: SWTOR, Rift, Age of Conan, Warhammer, even Darkfall had this ADHD fanboy attitude until people realized these games just won't be able to hold a decent population over several years like MMOs such as FF Series, EVE, and WoW hold. I've played all these games and even Warhammer, SWTOR, and Rift came off as less of a WoW clone. These games have ALL dwindled since release.

You have no idea the game even has an extensive customization housing system that has a great deal of effect on the rest of the game.

You realize player housing isn't some new magical thing, right? Archeage has had this since 2013 bro. Your new features are included with almost every new MMO made. This is why when you add in a few things from other MMOs ontop of a blatant WoW clone you get Wildstar.

I like the game so far. I think if you actually read my posts you'd see I'm somewhat hopeful, but hardly trying to defend every aspect of the game or can do no wrong. It's just funny to see someone who watched someone play call "failure" on a game. Even funnier to have them then call me bias (pot meet kettle much?).

You are biased, bro. I'm much more unbiased because I have zero money invested nor do I have a large following in any current MMO. I played 4 hours of archeage, and watched a friend play around 6 hours of PVP in Wildstar IRL plus various twitch streams for 30 minutes at a time, mostly PVP related. I've probably played more MMO's than you as well (not happy to admit that, either) so me calling this game a WoW clone should probably mean something. I don't think there is a "wow clone" in the NA markets that I haven't tried.

You however, started a thread on Wildstar and IIRC you've already preordered. I still listen to your arguments, but not gonna lie I'm sensing a form of "whitewashing" that I see in game communities way way too often around release. It sounds exactly like the "founding members" I dealt with during Marvel Heroes release; they would take any negative criticism and just kinda sweep it under the floor. The best part was 6 months later when I went back on their forums and asked if certain people were playing.

I'll let you guess the response on that one

EDIT: also remember I signed up for the beta, so this isn't like me hitting on a game just out of spite. I just really don't see this game being a smash success from the feedback and what I've personally seen.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I'm pretty sure that's a huge fallacy, but ok. I don't think adding 3 new features to what WoW already did flawlessly is going to make Wildstar a huge and long-lasting game. I've also played WAY too many MMOS (over 10 now) to know that if you don't bring new features by the truckload, people won't be interested in playing long-term.


So wait, first it's not a WoW clone, but then they brought over "many good things". Can you make up your mind, bro? If you take 70% of WoW, add in a nifty combat system like smite and add in player housing, it's not a new game. Sorry, but it's NOT. NEW. If you think it is that's fine, but so many people disagree with you it hurts to argue this. Combat system? Really man? It's smite's combat system. It's pretty blatantly stolen might I add. Smite was in Alpha over a year ago.



You have no idea how long I've watched people play this game, do you? You keep assuming things about my experience and frankly I'm a bit tired of trying to prove that I know what I'm talking about. This happens with every new MMO and people like you (fanboys on the fence or diehard fanboys) end up being non-existent in the community within 6-8 months of release because you move onto the next MMO. This was proven in so many MMOS since WoW: SWTOR, Rift, Age of Conan, Warhammer, even Darkfall had this ADHD fanboy attitude until people realized these games just won't be able to hold a decent population over several years like MMOs such as FF Series, EVE, and WoW hold. I've played all these games and even Warhammer, SWTOR, and Rift came off as less of a WoW clone. These games have ALL dwindled since release.


You realize player housing isn't some new magical thing, right? Archeage has had this since 2013 bro. Your new features are included with almost every new MMO made. This is why when you add in a few things from other MMOs ontop of a blatant WoW clone you get Wildstar.


You are biased, bro. I'm much more unbiased because I have zero money invested nor do I have a large following in any current MMO. I played 4 hours of archeage, and watched a friend play around 6 hours of PVP in Wildstar IRL plus various twitch streams for 30 minutes at a time, mostly PVP related. I've probably played more MMO's than you as well (not happy to admit that, either) so me calling this game a WoW clone should probably mean something. I don't think there is a "wow clone" in the NA markets that I haven't tried.

You however, started a thread on Wildstar and IIRC you've already preordered. I still listen to your arguments, but not gonna lie im sensing a form of "whitewashing" that I see in game communities way way too often around reelase. It sounds exactly like the "founding members" I dealt with during Marvel Heroes release; they would take any negative criticism and just kinda sweep it under the floor. The best part was 6 months later when I went back and asked if certain people were playing.

I'll let you guess the response on that one

You need to look up the definition of a "clone"

Yea, the thing you do 90% of the time in the game functions completely differently. It's pretty hard to have a difference like that and call a game a clone. Fallacy not found.

Yes, a "clone" of a game would copy everything and be intellectually bankrupt. A good game generally polishes the ideas of other games while bringing in some of it's own. You know like what WoW did.

It's clear from what you've said your experience with the game is laughably short. The strong points of Wildstar and Archeage are completely different, but you're very quick to assume the later is completely superior.

You realize Wildstar's housing is done in a novel way right (not to say Archaege isn't novel either)? As I said, your experience with the game is laughable. Archaeage is still in development just as Wildstar... So what does it even mean to say it's had housing since 2013? so has Wildstar... You should also reread my post because I didn't say it was a new feature of MMOs. I said it was new compared to WoW.

It's kind of funny. You come in here having really no idea what your talking about with either game (this is even more clear now)... Make some sweeping statements. Now, your posting tons of crap trying to defend yourself. It's just pathetic.

Just a note: I'm not trying to say your dislike of the game is wrong; it's fine to hate a game after watching it or playing it a bit, but your grand dismissal of it as a failure (not to say it will or won't fail) is frankly stupid in part due to your lack of experience.

 

[Rinaun]

I've said my piece; I'll be watching this thread in a few months to see where Wildstar is at.

 

[imaheadcase]

I wonder why no MMO has been made that drops you into a wide sandbox world with a random group of new players as yourself (pvp disabled in groups) and all you have is a compass and a quickbar and you discover as you go and level up.

I would play that to no end, open PvP/open pve, world distance as large as the USA. The discovery aspect alone would keep people enthralled.

Mobs actually roam and not set on a certain area. Level 50 mobs roam into a town full of level 10s? Screw you get out of the way till they move or die.
No level restrictions on gear , just it wears out you have to get new gear. Keep people from having flavor of the month gear.
real rewards for doing major tasks. Take a town from NPC or Players and you get full set of armor that lasts a week without wear. Instead of MMO now you get a random piece of gear that is no better than what you go off a mob at lower level.

So much hand holding makes for bad games.

 

[HumblePie]

Going to repost something I posted a long time ago about that stupid term "WoW clone"

Ugh, that term WoW clone is so stupid.

Nothing is a clone of WoW as WoW isn't a genre defining game. Never was, and never will be. It is a very popular representative of MMORPGs, but it does not define the genre at all. Nor was it the first.

RPG games is really a bad name as well. It is more a misnomer as there isn't a "role" being played since it really should be defined as PPG or Play Progression Game is more accurate term. Long before these games were online, they were single player. WoW doesn't do anything different than the old single player PPG of the past. The only reason these games are called "role" playing games is because they are the electronic derivatives of the original Dungeon and Dragons pen and paper games. Where players played characters that not only "Progressed" in character development that was represented by stat numbers, but those players played roles in the story line of their character. The games were pure imagination within some limited structured guidelines. Video games can never reproduce anything remotely like pen & paper RPGs. So to call them RPGs has always been stupid.

But WoW wasn't even the first incarnation of online versions of PPGs. Hell, if the developers of EQ weren't so retarded with their "punishing the player" bullshit mechanics in their game WoW would never have been as popular as it was.

All WoW did was remove the stupid punishment mechanics other games before it tried to have. As well as add in a bit more story woven into the basic quest building block types. Nothing innovative, nothing genre defining, and nothing to be the comparison standard of.

No other game in this genre will ever be "innovative" because it must fit into the genre.

No, wildstar is not a wow clone. Nothing can be a wow clone unless someone makes a private server, copies the code for WoW, and starts playing the game. They've made a WoW clone.

Do Wildstar and WoW have similarities? Yep. Similar Aesthetics, and they are in the same genre of game type. Being that they are both MMORPGs. Beyond that, they aren't the same. Story is completely different. Combat is completely different. In game activities are completely different. Unless you want to look again at ONLY the basic building blocks of what defines an RPG video game in this genre.

As for Archeage, it's just a pvp gank fest with a very simple boring combat system and quest system. It's an pretty Asian grind fest that has been tried a crap ton of times before. Might as well call the game Lineage 3 or Aion 2. As it seems to be the spiritual successor of style of MMORPG game play. I have no idea why anyone would want to pay $150 to even play that game right now. Some people are masochists and love punishment style gameplay I guess. Having a false sense of accomplishment by random luck of the draw of not being ganked constantly for all your stuff I guess. Or just "winning" through grinding and ganking others.

I'm into PVP games, like FPS and such, but not MMO PVP. MMO pvp is just stupid. It's usually poor, lazy combat mechanics on an inherently badly designed class system that can never be balanced. Every MMO PVP combat comes down to a FotM class that has the "I WIN" button and every one else is their bitch. Unless you make everything literally the same for everyone in combat with players having access to all the same abilities for their character, then balance can never be achieved in an MMO PVP system. Which is why all the "decent" MMO PVP based games allow players to do just that. Look at EVE. Any player has the ability to use any ship or module. It may take some time, but anyone can do anything in that game. Most MMO's lock players down to certain choices and that will block you from other stuff. Which is fine from a PVE perspective, but junk for a PVP perspective. Which is why most PVP in class restricted based MMOs eventually devolves into "arenas" of some sort. Which ends up mini pvp areas that do a lot to prevent ganking and zerg balls using nothing but FotM setups. It allows at least a semblance of balance. But then the hardcore pvp "purists" hate arenas because it prevents them from getting their gank on.

No MMO RPG that is based on PVP will ever reach the levels of popularity of WoW. Only reason UO was as "popular" as it was back in the day was because of there being a massive lack in graphical online video games back then. Soon as other games were available, people started jumping ship. Soon as Tramiel started and other non pvp servers opened for UO, every player jumped over to those servers. Making the PVP servers ghost towns. Only the gankers lamented the lack of targets.

Only a PVP MMORPG with a similar setup that Eve has will ever get a decent crowd to play it. Even then, Eve has some massive flaws to the game which deters it from many players. Eve is also about as hardcore as you can get for an MMORPG for PVP. The only thing it lacks is perma death.

 

[HumblePie]

I wonder why no MMO has been made that drops you into a wide sandbox world with a random group of new players as yourself (pvp disabled in groups) and all you have is a compass and a quickbar and you discover as you go and level up.

I would play that to no end, open PvP/open pve, world distance as large as the USA. The discovery aspect alone would keep people enthralled.

Mobs actually roam and not set on a certain area. Level 50 mobs roam into a town full of level 10s? Screw you get out of the way till they move or die.
No level restrictions on gear , just it wears out you have to get new gear. Keep people from having flavor of the month gear.
real rewards for doing major tasks. Take a town from NPC or Players and you get full set of armor that lasts a week without wear. Instead of MMO now you get a random piece of gear that is no better than what you go off a mob at lower level.

So much hand holding makes for bad games.

Play Rust or Day Z?

 

[Rinaun]

Play Rust or Day Z?

I do think these type of MMOs are the future. The amount of character development is dropping in newer MMOs and going the way of Rust and Dayz. That's not to say it's a bad thing, either. I don't think anybody likes feeling like they are having their time in-game wasted by doing repetitive tasks that they would otherwise never do in order to level.

 

[Remobz]

I've been playing the beta this weekend after not really paying attention to it, and I've been pleasantly surprised by it. The game-play is very fluid, which is one of the things I care about the most. After watching some stuff about the dungeon/endgame content, I'm almost ready to preorder although I'm still holding off.

Please spare me too much of the "cartoony" crap. It looks good (within the constraints of it's style) and presumably allows them to do a lot more in regards to game-play.

I am 100% not excited or care the least

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Even if it is a WoW clone, by itself that's not a problem. What gets me is that WoW gets close by dozens of games and all I want is a game that 50-60% clones Everquest. There isn't even one, yet it's OK for dozens to clone WoW.

 

[Mandres]

I agree with Rinuan. This game is exactly WoW with a slightly different setting (but not very different, the overall art style is very similar) and no lock-on targeting. There are no interesting new ideas here that haven't already been done somewhere else, and I think it'll be completely irrelevant a year from now just like SWTOR. If it came out around the same time as RIFT it might have been competitive, it feels like it's from that generation of games.

I really think Wildstar is going to be the tail end of the string of "Me too!" MMOs that were all green-lighted when WoW was making crazy stupid money and everyone wanted to get in on the party. It's long past time for the "solo-quest-grind to level cap and then run dungeons over and over again forever" kind of game to be replaced with a different kind of persistent world experience.

The Koreans and Chinese have been pushing the envelope in MMOs for a while and I think Everquest: Next has some interesting ideas too. But the WoW model is over and done, except for the people who still play WoW.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I agree with Rinuan. This game is exactly WoW with a slightly different setting (but not very different, the overall art style is very similar) and no lock-on targeting. There are no interesting new ideas here that haven't already been done somewhere else, and I think it'll be completely irrelevant a year from now just like SWTOR. If it came out around the same time as RIFT it might have been competitive, it feels like it's from that generation of games.

I really think Wildstar is going to be the tail end of the string of "Me too!" MMOs that were all green-lighted when WoW was making crazy stupid money and everyone wanted to get in on the party. It's long past time for the "solo-quest-grind to level cap and then run dungeons over and over again forever" kind of game to be replaced with a different kind of persistent world experience.

The Koreans and Chinese have been pushing the envelope in MMOs for a while and I think Everquest: Next has some interesting ideas too. But the WoW model is over and done, except for the people who still play WoW.

Yea, science fiction vs fantasy... totally just slightly different. You use words like slightly and "Me too", but it seems you lack a grasp of what they mean or you completely fail to realize what's been put into the game... It's not just a "solo-quest-grind" to level cap. That's there for those who want it. There's also rewards for people who want to small groups of 2-3 who want to quest and adventures and dungeons for bigger groups. It's all been done, but there's an enormous amount of effort that's been put into polishing it. Same with the combat system. "No lock on targeting" completely changes the combat and the combat that is there has been very well polished for it.

 

[Rinaun]

Yea, science fiction vs fantasy... totally just slightly different. You use words like slightly and "Me too", but it seems you lack a grasp of what they mean or you completely fail to realize what's been put into the game... It's not just a "solo-quest-grind" to level cap. That's there for those who want it. There's also rewards for people who want to small groups of 2-3 who want to quest and adventures and dungeons for bigger groups. It's all been done, but there's an enormous amount of effort that's been put into polishing it. Same with the combat system. "No lock on targeting" completely changes the combat and the combat that is there has been very well polished for it.

Can you just take feedback and stop arguing againt those whom don't agree with your outlook? Seriously. We get you like the game. some people won't. Let us speak our minds and stop trying to downplay our experience or understanding on what Wildstar is. You're just sounding more and more like a fanboy by arguing every single negative post like there is something to earn. Take a step back or something; go take a smoke/drink. No need to be using vocuabulary like "you seem to lack a grasp of" or using sarcasm. That's pretty much baiting for an argument.

 

[HumblePie]

I do think these type of MMOs are the future. The amount of character development is dropping in newer MMOs and going the way of Rust and Dayz. That's not to say it's a bad thing, either. I don't think anybody likes feeling like they are having their time in-game wasted by doing repetitive tasks that they would otherwise never do in order to level.

Highly disagree. Rust and Dayz are nothing new at all in game design. They won't make it big like nothing else with the same design has made it big before.

RPGs are nothing new as I stated before. WoW is not original in anything. Video games form a genre because they share certain similarities in play style that have to be shared in order to be that genre. If the play style is too different it is a completely different genre.

Complete sand boxes with no story line "rail" quests fail. Fail hard. Always have and always will. It appeals to a very select minority of players and that is it. Some try it for the novelty, which temporary inflates numbers for a bit which makes those that really like the style of play enjoy it more. Still, it is temporary and those that tried for the novelty soon leave. Same with complete open world pvp. You'll never have a game reach WoW proportions of player base with open world pvp. It just doesn't appeal to most people.

Take an RPG, what does it stand for? Role Playing Game. You are playing a character in a role in a story. Truly open sandbox games really aren't RPG's... but video game RPGs are really to be intricate character progression, and a combat system that isn't completely twitchy that requires precise aim.

Really, even looking at FPS, the modern ones aren't really any different compared to things like the original Wolfenstein or Doom. They just have better graphics and add some "rpgish" elements which is some minor character or "achievement" progression. But modern FPS still do very well and don't fail so long as they do the same gameplay elements as before with some extra polish to something different and possibly a different "hook" to get players to buy the game.

Pointing out that SWTOR as a failure is stupid at best. It made a HUGE profit. It was a well made game with good story. It had flaws. MMORPGS that are subscription based only keep players if their subscription money is going towards rapid bug fixes and good new content that roles out. When a game that has a subscription base can't do that it is going to fail at keeping subscribers in the long run.

Wildstar won't be a failure as a game. It is going to sell a crap ton of copies and make a lot of profit off sales and the first few months subscriptions. Whether it keeps those subscriptions at a highly profitable rate only the future will tell. By what I can see already in the game content wise it is a very well done, highly polished, tons to do, and looks to be a winner for initial sales. Bugs are very minimal, and mostly to do with the UI which may or may not be their Achilles heel.

Does it have the general same elements that the majority of MMORPG players want and expect. Sure does. Will that turn of those players seeking a complete sandbox game with open world pvp and no story line. Sure will. Will those players always be in the minority. Most likely so.

Making arguments about based on the merits of how well it did something or screwed up on something is all fine and dandy. Trying to disparage a game because it fits into a category that you don't like is pretty stupid though. Don't like the category? Then don't play those types of games. Look for games that fit into the genre you are wanting and then discuss the merits of those games. To compare games of almost two separate genres is really dumb. Might as well compare Wildstar to Angry Birds then.

 

[imaheadcase]

Play Rust or Day Z?

They are not MMO...
We need a EvE online but on ground. 6k players in one seamless world be AWESOME. Yes they can do it already, no one has attempted it though.

 

[Mandres]

Making arguments about based on the merits of how well it did something or screwed up on something is all fine and dandy. Trying to disparage a game because it fits into a category that you don't like is pretty stupid though. Don't like the category? Then don't play those types of games. Look for games that fit into the genre you are wanting and then discuss the merits of those games. To compare games of almost two separate genres is really dumb. Might as well compare Wildstar to Angry Birds then.

I take your point, but I can absolutely criticize art for being derivative and lacking any interesting new ideas. Especially if they're trying to sell it to me (and they are trying hard. I've never seen so many obvious marketing shills for a game before). It's time for the $100 million dollar theme park MMO model to die and I hope Wildstar is the last one. This kind of sterile, corporate, risk-averse game design is antithesis to what made the genre so exciting and fun in the first place.

 

[Hacp]

I take your point, but I can absolutely criticize art for being derivative and lacking any interesting new ideas. Especially if they're trying to sell it to me (and they are trying hard. I've never seen so many obvious marketing shills for a game before). It's time for the $100 million dollar theme park MMO model to die and I hope Wildstar is the last one. This kind of sterile, corporate, risk-averse game design is antithesis to what made the genre so exciting and fun in the first place.

It seems like you have an agenda if you want this MMO to die.