Anybody else unimpressed with new midrange Nvidia GPUs, and much higher MSRP?

[tential]

Even if AMD came out and said something, how many would believe it?

After the Overclocker's dream? Lol...

I wish I had your optimism. AMD has a history of double dribbling and missing free throws.

NV is going to sell every single card they make. AMD is going to come out, put pressure on price, and then NV will respond and continue to sell their cards.

Early Adopters aren't naive, they know what they're paying for. And they won't care if someone gets it for $100-150 less if they got it 1-2 months earlier.

Nvidia will be selling 1070s before AMD even has their press conference. This was supposed to be AMD's moment, and they're still playing from behind. A best case scenario for AMD is STILL a win for Nvidia. That's a horrible position to be in.

Wait til Nvidia just ebays each Founders Edition card off at maximum profit possible?
Can't wait to hear about how people took out a third mortgage for an Nvidia GTX 1180 Super Hype Creator's Edition.

 

[railven]

Nvidia will be selling 1070s before AMD even has their press conference. This was supposed to be AMD's moment, and they're still playing from behind. A best case scenario for AMD is STILL a win for Nvidia. That's a horrible position to be in.

Some how AMD is expected to be beating Intel in processors, beating Nvidia in GPUs, leading the market with an army of ARM based servers, and taking over the world...

all while lose money every quarter. I'm not saying AMD is going to die/disappear, but at some point even it's fans have to take note: AMD is poorly run and has been poorly run for years.

AMD had the 290X, an amazing product, punched the 780 in the stomach, and before the end of the following year it was a bargain product <$300 or used for <$250 mean while NV retained their high asking price.

Now it's the DX12 revolution, them cheap cards people probably bought used are "AMAZING, look at it beat a $700 NV card" meanwhile AMD is looking at it's revenue portfolio scratching it's had "where is the money?"

Woof.

Wait til Nvidia just ebays each Founders Edition card off at maximum profit possible?
Can't wait to hear about how people took out a third mortgage for an Nvidia GTX 1180 Super Hype Creator's Edition.

Haha, I've actually wondered this some times, especially with like consoles. If companies really wanted the monies, just put the items up for auction. See who is really willing to pay "stupid money" for it.

 

[JDG1980]

Nvidia will be selling 1070s before AMD even has their press conference.

Unlikely. The Polaris announcement is expected to be at Computex (which starts May 31); GTX 1070 won't be released until June 10. If Computex is a hard launch for AMD (big if), it's possible that Polaris 10 may beat GTX 1070 to market (though not GTX 1080 with its May 27 release date).

Anyway, Polaris 10 and 11 seem to be aimed at lower price points (and power consumption) anyway, with a focus on OEM design wins. They aren't necessarily intended to beat GP104 head-on. The massive sales of GTX 750 Ti and GTX 960 indicate that there is a big market for cards with lower power usage and smaller die size at a reasonable price, as long as they can deliver good performance levels. Until GP106/GP107 comes out, Nvidia won't have anything to compete with Polaris.

There will be plenty of opportunity for both AMD and Nvidia to sell every wafer they can get, because in 2Q-3Q 2016, they aren't directly competing with each other. The real head-on competition won't come until AMD brings out Vega, and Nvidia releases GP106 and GP107 and maybe a GP100/GP102 Titan.

 

[Stuka87]

After the Overclocker's dream? Lol...



Nvidia will be selling 1070s before AMD even has their press conference. This was supposed to be AMD's moment, and they're still playing from behind. A best case scenario for AMD is STILL a win for Nvidia. That's a horrible position to be in.

Wait til Nvidia just ebays each Founders Edition card off at maximum profit possible?
Can't wait to hear about how people took out a third mortgage for an Nvidia GTX 1180 Super Hype Creator's Edition.

While they will technically be selling them, we all know quantities are going to be extremely limited, as it always the case. So a handful of people will have them, but its not like all of AMD potential customers will have already purchased 1080's in that four day span.

 

[Silverforce11]

@tential

Where's your logic man?

1070 REFERENCE => June 10th. Jacked up in prices for early access.

$379 variant AWOL. No confirmed date.

AMD has said since the start of this year, they are launching in June. Computex in particular which is May 31. This is AMD inviting NV to launch first, by telling them their plans. And so NV will take that opportunity and price their SKUs very high. It is basically collusion since they won't even price war or compete as its entirely different segments in price.

For those who want to figure out the launch date for AIB variants. Put your brain to work and think.

1. A0 GP104 sampling QA sent to MSI recently.
2. The chip itself was produced in April this year from TSMC.
3. GDD5X on the board was a QA sample from Micron.
4. Micron has reveal they are not ramping volume until Q3.

How long do you think QA time period lasts for a new generation of products? What are the usual ramping volume and timing involved?

Consider late April, MSI starts testing GP104 and their PCB designs. What's a realistic date til we see it in retail?

 

[Silverforce11]

Here's another food for thought.

Why is NV releasing the reference 1070 on June 10th? Why not earlier to steal AMD's thunder fully. Put it out before Computex even.

Because they can't.

It's a paper launch, they don't even have many GP104 chips I bet because the first run is in April this year.

 

[Fallen Kell]

980 / 970 reference cards launched at $549 / $329
1080 / 1070 reference cards at $699 / $449

Even the stripped down models are $50 higher at $599 and $379.

I watched everybody at the event hollering in excitement, am I the only one who groaned in disappointment?

Dude welcome to the world of THEY ARE A BUSINESS WITH NO COMPETITION AT THE HIGH END OF THE PERFORMANCE SPECTRUM. They can charge whatever they want because if you need to have a card with more performance than existing cards on the market today, Nvidia is the only game in town.

 

[renderstate]

It's kind of funny to see people really trying hard to demonstrate why NVIDIA is failing/will fail with Pascal. That's some commitment.

I could be wrong but my impression that some will be very disappointed by the lack of "failure" and goalposts will be moved forward again to meet some new "failures".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Silverforce11]

It's kind of funny to see people really trying hard to demonstrate why NVIDIA is failing/will fail with Pascal.

Who says NV will fail with Pascal?

I didn't see any such posts in this thread.

Most of the posts actually claimed the reverse, including from my own, that NV will bank it, profit big time by jacking up the price for what is a early access reference card, by calling it Founders Edition.

Really, why are you trying to hard to inject vitriol and start a flame war when there isn't one going and it's been quite civil so far?!

 

[casiofx]

@tential

Where's your logic man?

1070 REFERENCE => June 10th. Jacked up in prices for early access.

$379 variant AWOL. No confirmed date.

AMD has said since the start of this year, they are launching in June. Computex in particular which is May 31. This is AMD inviting NV to launch first, by telling them their plans. And so NV will take that opportunity and price their SKUs very high. It is basically collusion since they won't even price war or compete as its entirely different segments in price.

For those who want to figure out the launch date for AIB variants. Put your brain to work and think.

1. A0 GP104 sampling QA sent to MSI recently.
2. The chip itself was produced in April this year from TSMC.
3. GDD5X on the board was a QA sample from Micron.
4. Micron has reveal they are not ramping volume until Q3.

How long do you think QA time period lasts for a new generation of products? What are the usual ramping volume and timing involved?

Consider late April, MSI starts testing GP104 and their PCB designs. What's a realistic date til we see it in retail?

I have to say brilliant move by Nvidia from a business standpoint.

They can't label the GP104 as Titan since it is not the GP100, so they can't sell it at $1000. Instead they introduced "early access" cards and charge $100 premium for it, very nice move to milk extra dough while beating the competition to the market with only few stocks on hand for a full launch (custom cards etc).

 

[Cookie Monster]

It's kind of funny to see people really trying hard to demonstrate why NVIDIA is failing/will fail with Pascal. That's some commitment.

I could be wrong but my impression that some will be very disappointed by the lack of "failure" and goalposts will be moved forward again to meet some new "failures".

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Always happens, but its getting worse these days in ATF.

On a more relevant note..

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/geforce-gtx-1080-photos.html

So at last nights event there where a couple of setups showing the GeForce GTX 1080. The cards where available in large quantities alright. Update: I got my hands on our test sample, see attached some extra new photos.

As you can see the GeForce GTX 1080 draws power from a single 8-pin PCIe power connector. Which makes sense wwith a TDP of just 180W. It features three DisplayPort 1.4 connectors and an HDMI 2.0 connector as well as a dual-link DVI port.

Have a peek, click the thumbnails to enlarge.

 

[Silverforce11]

@Cookie Monster

Did we not already knew that would be happening? NV's editor day, giving cards to reviewers?

 

[tential]

Unlikely. The Polaris announcement is expected to be at Computex (which starts May 31); GTX 1070 won't be released until June 10. If Computex is a hard launch for AMD (big if), it's possible that Polaris 10 may beat GTX 1070 to market (though not GTX 1080 with its May 27 release date).

Anyway, Polaris 10 and 11 seem to be aimed at lower price points (and power consumption) anyway, with a focus on OEM design wins. They aren't necessarily intended to beat GP104 head-on. The massive sales of GTX 750 Ti and GTX 960 indicate that there is a big market for cards with lower power usage and smaller die size at a reasonable price, as long as they can deliver good performance levels. Until GP106/GP107 comes out, Nvidia won't have anything to compete with Polaris.

There will be plenty of opportunity for both AMD and Nvidia to sell every wafer they can get, because in 2Q-3Q 2016, they aren't directly competing with each other. The real head-on competition won't come until AMD brings out Vega, and Nvidia releases GP106 and GP107 and maybe a GP100/GP102 Titan.

Oh, my fault, Nvidia will be selling an even MORE expensive GPU before AMD's press conference (not even launch, PRESS conference), on May 31st.

That sounds FANTASTIC. Tell me how amazing it will be to hear about midrange performance after people get their hands on the GTX 1080. This is why Nvidia did this. I wonder what thread will have more posts on a gaming forum like Neogaf.

GTX 1080 owners thread or AMD Polaris Press Conference.

Some how AMD is expected to be beating Intel in processors, beating Nvidia in GPUs, leading the market with an army of ARM based servers, and taking over the world...

all while lose money every quarter. I'm not saying AMD is going to die/disappear, but at some point even it's fans have to take note: AMD is poorly run and has been poorly run for years.

AMD had the 290X, an amazing product, punched the 780 in the stomach, and before the end of the following year it was a bargain product <$300 or used for <$250 mean while NV retained their high asking price.

Now it's the DX12 revolution, them cheap cards people probably bought used are "AMAZING, look at it beat a $700 NV card" meanwhile AMD is looking at it's revenue portfolio scratching it's had "where is the money?"

Woof.



Haha, I've actually wondered this some times, especially with like consoles. If companies really wanted the monies, just put the items up for auction. See who is really willing to pay "stupid money" for it.

I can't stand AMD as a business. They are run poorly. But I do think Polaris 10 and Zen are both great products. Zen will be a good product. Just because it won't beat out the fastest intel CPUs doesn't mean it won't be good. It's starting at 6-8 cores. To get 6-8 cores, you need HEDT platform from Intel. That will be mainstream for Zen which will get quite a few people. With DX12, core count is more important than individual core speed more than ever. 8 core Zen vs the 7700k will be interesting in DX12 benchmarks.

Polaris 10 won't take the performance crown, but it will win multi card configurations IMO, and it will win price/performance, or AMD should just stop making GPUs.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Here's another food for thought.

Why is NV releasing the reference 1070 on June 10th? Why not earlier to steal AMD's thunder fully. Put it out before Computex even.

Because they can't.

It's a paper launch, they don't even have many GP104 chips I bet because the first run is in April this year.

Dude, stop saying its a paper launch until June 10th comes and there are none available. Until then, it is just a launch. People and companies in EVERY line of business release data on their products AHEAD of the launch so that customers have a chance to digest the information, do some market research, and put aside the money it takes to purchase it on the release date.

The ONLY reason to not release information about your product is to prevent the competition from gaining information which they can use to then "spoil" your launch, by undercutting your prices or bringing something higher performing to market. But everyone already knows that Polaris isn't competing on the high end of the graphic market (AMD has said it themselves, Polaris is aimed to get 390X - Fury level performance in a card that is $250-300 price point). As such Nvidia already knows that AMD doesn't have a competing product that can spoil the Nvidia launch by giving away a lot more of the product technical information and advertising an actual launch date for the product ahead of time.

In the past few years (6-7) both AMD and Nvidia have been very tight lipped about their products ahead of release. But prior to that, both companies released technical specs of their products a few weeks before the actual release date, until the competition became very fierce with the companies tweaking designs at the last moment after the other company made the announcement (mostly dealing with amount of memory or slight bus speed boosts over the initial design so that they could beat the competition). But because Nvidia feels that AMD does not have a competing part for the 1080 or 1070, they feel no problem at all talking about it at this moment. You don't see AMD talking about their Polaris much because Nvidia DOES have a competing product, and releasing any information about it would only give Nvidia more time to respond with their competing card in that price/performance range.

Learn a little business/economic sense and you would understand what is going on here. Nvidia is taking advantage of their performance gap vs the competition to be able to advertise and get more eyes looking at their products. They get to have the news cycles focused on talking about the Nvidia 1080 and 1070 for an additional few weeks now because if they had released this information on the days of their product release, AMD is/was scheduled to have a similar reveal not much afterwards. Now Nvidia gets all the tech sites posting their products around and discussing them, and infering about performance, and this and that for the next few weeks. And when all the average joe who simply knows he wants a graphics card types in a search, they will see all this news of the new Nvidia cards coming out, and won't see anything official about an AMD card coming out, and Nvidia will have just possibly made a new sale because of that. On top of that, releasing this information was a calculated business strategy to possibly force AMD to release information about their cards. If AMD takes the bait and releases technical information about their competing product and actual release dates as well, Nvidia just gained several weeks to several months of time to come up with a better response to AMD's cards.

 

[wilds]

Are we going to see normal 1070/1080's out of stock before the Founder's Editions? Not because the Founder's Edition is limited in stock, but rather that there are a lot more Founder's Editions than normal cards in the first place! Shareholders are applauding I am sure.

We shall see when reviews are up if there is an overclocking advantage for the FE. If every card can hit 2+ GHz and performance scales well, then the 1080 will be a very tempting card for quite some time! I really hope prices go down for the aftermarket versions. Imagine if EVGA sells their highest end model with the Founders tax. People will still buy them simply because they are the fastest.

I am going to be patient for the aftermarket versions. If we somehow get a GDDR5X version of the 1070 down the road, I may buy one! I simply won't be buying another GDDR5 card when Hawaii has performed far above my expectations.

If we see a real X60 card from Nvidia with GDDR5X for some peculiar reason, then it may put Polaris to shame. I really hope AMD releases something to keep prices lower. The fact that the 1080 will be the performance king for the next year really bums me out if it remains a $600+ card for this long. The 7970 and 680 prices left me with the same feeling. Once the big cards were released like the 780 and 290, then it made sense to pay the small price premium for their much better longevity.

For me the 1070 feels like what the 1060 ti should be. The only interesting card here is the 1080 for its GDDR5X. I really do think that the extra memory bandwidth over the 1070 will make a big performance gap over the years. I'd be happy with a 6 GB GDDR5X 1070 with the slightly cut down shader count it usually has compared to the 1080.

I'm hoping AMD releases a 7870XT-esque card with GDDR5X. It should be competitive with a 1070, but at a much more reasonable price. Personally, I'm waiting for 2017 for the big GPU's to come. Maybe a 4k 120hz monitor being released around then too...

 

[Cookie Monster]

@Cookie Monster

Did we not already knew that would be happening? NV's editor day, giving cards to reviewers?

Well some were questioning it as limited supply, paper launch, woodscrews w/e so this is somewhat a confirmation from one of the mainstream reviewers that they've got card(s) to review well ahead of its retail launch date and in large supplies too so that is good news.

 

[Silverforce11]

Well some were questioning it as limited supply, paper launch, woodscrews w/e so this is somewhat a confirmation from one of the mainstream reviewers that they've got card(s) to review well ahead of its retail launch date and in large supplies too so that is good news.

So you take it that cards at a press conference for invited reviewers = good retail volume?

 

[Silverforce11]

Dude, stop saying its a paper launch until June 10th comes and there are none available.

Reference cards marked up more than 1 month after (June 10th) from the announcement = paper launch by tech standards.

A proper launch is having cards in retail a few days or a week later. Unless you had forgotten historic trends.

There was the argument (you know who you are) about why NV kept silent while AMD showcased Polaris, that NV doesn't need to release info prior to launch because they are ahead. They have nothing to worry about.

So now they are releasing info more than a month in advance. With the 1080 Early Access a few days before AMD's launch at Computex... what to make of it?

 

[renderstate]

A paper lunch would hurt NVIDIA sales and you only do it when sales are going badly because you have nothing to lose abs you want to raise awareness about your new product.

Guess who had to show their new gadget 6+ months before putting it on the market? Right, it's not NVIDIA.

If they announced the new product is because their are stupid or because they know they can fulfill demand just fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[renderstate]

So if the gap between launch and sales is 30 days is ok but if it's 31 days then it's a paper launch? Because you said so?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Splintah]

Honestly I feel like ngreedia are intentionally trying to mislead me and I am kind of over it. I have 2x titan x's and before that I have had sli 780ti's. I also have a 970, a 980 and a 980m sli laptop. So I am definitely not the person who hates on nvidia, but this announcement felt incredibly misleading and hyped up. I didn't like how it felt, not one bit. I think I will honestly be going back to AMD just on pure principle at this point. Saying that the card was 2x titan x performance and knowing that news sites would report on that is messed up. Not making any official statement to refute that fact is also just adding fuel to the fire.

 

[Splintah]

I guess JHH has to make enough money to buy more of those cool leather jackets somewhere though.

 

[piesquared]

I have 0 faith in AMD's marketing team. I'd honestly hire a room of third graders first to market Polaris 10.

I'm not even kidding either, AMD marketing makes me NOT want AMD products when I hear it.

I remember when this meme was started. Before that it was something else. And before that it was something else. Almost by design or something.

Personally, I think AMD's marketing is just fine. They do great things with gamers and gamers' events. They may not buy off reviewers and send out forum warriors to do their astroturfing, but i'm happy to support a company that takes the high road. I don't need a company to spoon feed me marketing, i'm perfectly capable of doing my research and come to my own conclusion. YMMV

 

[Silverforce11]

So if the gap between launch and sales is 30 days is ok but if it's 31 days then it's a paper launch? Because you said so?

Lol, you are too easy man.

Nano was called by some tech press for being a paper launch, when it was briefed to journalist in LATE AUGUST 2015 with review samples given out.

It was available in retail on September 10th, 2015.

 

[Splintah]

so when you really think about it, why would nvidia be lying so blatantly? maybe they are possibly feeling threatened by AMD?