Anybody else unimpressed with new midrange Nvidia GPUs, and much higher MSRP?

[airfathaaaaa]

I have a good one,

GTX 1080 Founders retail launch at $699 on 27th of May

AMD announce of Polaris 10 at $299 on Computex 31th of May with early July retail availability.

Now, IF AMD do this the way its meant to be played, they can actually sent review cards to selected sites with "instructions" to bench DX-12 titles including the new Total War : Warhummer (launching on May 24th).

Ashes of the Singularity
Hitman
Quantum Brake
Total War : WarHummer

etc etc

Polaris 10 could come close to 90% performance of GTX 1080 at half the price and lower TDP, completely disrupting GTX 1080 Founders edition and gain tremendous mindshare among the press and the consumer.

The rest will be history

edit. Some Polaris 10 cards will be close to Fury X length.

well considering that they spend as much time on dx12 as on dx11 i dont see why they wont let it go full swing afterall they will have a more complete gpu this time around especially on tesselation :sneaky:

 

[xpea]

JHH tried to justify it with superior power delivery components on the reference Founders Edition... it's almost as if prior reference cards had junk non-premium components.

It's not only the new premium ultra regulated power supply, other features cost money too:
- First product on FF16+ node that is much more expensive than 28nm
- More memory than previous generation
- New type of memory
- New vapor chamber cooling

 

[Piroko]

Forgot the 4890 in there. I was there for each price point, and bought each card, I don't recall these forums bursting into flames at AMD raising the price almost 50% with each node change.

There will always be more call-outs towards the market leader when he does a price hike. And justifiably so, as he is usually in a dominant position to enforce said price hike. Especially in an oligopoly.

Exactly this. I just can't stand this kind of blatant profit maximizing. Why aren't consumers infuriated?! Actually they defend this kind of stuff as "brilliant marketing" and "only doing what they are supposed to do as a company, yay capitalism".

I too think it's good marketing, but marketing in general has stopped working a long time ago for me. I found it hilarious how these youtube reviewers were made tired by some bread and circuses and only then shown the presentation, which made them more submissive:
Nvidia tries to compare the 1080 with a Titan X to make it look like good value when its actual competitior is a 980Ti, which has already covered roughly the same price point for 11 months now. None of them noticed that during the event.

 

[railven]

There will always be more call-outs towards the market leader when he does a price hike. And justifiably so, as he is usually in a dominant position to enforce said price hike. Especially in an oligopoly.

Oh, definitely. I guess I just take offense when being okay with the mechanics of capitalism equates you to being ok with terrorism/murder. Haha.

NV is a greedy corporation. They're shareholders must be loving it. I'm not a shareholder. But to me a $50 price hike is just an extra hour of over time. Or, just one less cup of coffee a day for a month. No biggie.

Oh well, this insomnia kick is going to cost me tomorrow, time for a sleep aid! Cheerio!

 

[iiiankiii]

I have a good one,

GTX 1080 Founders retail launch at $699 on 27th of May

AMD announce of Polaris 10 at $299 on Computex 31th of May with early July retail availability.

Now, IF AMD do this the way its meant to be played, they can actually sent review cards to selected sites with "instructions" to bench DX-12 titles including the new Total War : Warhummer (launching on May 24th).

Ashes of the Singularity
Hitman
Quantum Brake
Total War : WarHummer

etc etc

Polaris 10 could come close to 90% performance of GTX 1080 at half the price and lower TDP, completely disrupting GTX 1080 Founders edition and gain tremendous mindshare among the press and the consumer.

The rest will be history

edit. Some Polaris 10 cards will be close to Fury X length.

It's not that simple. The reviewers will make a huge deal of gaming the system. They will not take it. Heck, I wouldn't like cherry-picked reviews, either.

However, Nvidia, on the other hand, is much better at this. They know how to butter up their reviewers. This past event in Texas was a prime example of clouding their heads. Nvidia threw everything at those "reviewers". They had horseback riding, river wrathing, gambling, DJs, clubing, alcohol, fancy food, etc. Heck, Nvidia even bought out an entire theater so the reviewers can get a special viewing of Captain America: The Civil War. Everything was paid for!! They really butter those reviewers up real good.

It worked. Instead of asking Nvidia the real hard questions. They ate up whatever Nvidia feed them.

Founders Edition? Nice. Pretty cooler.
2X performance of GTX 980SLI? WOW!!!
2x performance, 3x power efficiency of a Titan X? **Head explodes**.

Nevermind the fact that everything Nvidia said were heavily cherry-picked.

Nvidia is the master of marketing. It just makes it a lot easier for reviewers to side with Nvidia. I totally understand why "reviewers" are more forgiving of Nvidia. It makes total sense.

 

[AtenRa]

This is exactly why the AMD Hype train crashes and burns. This is all based speculation, and hopes.

If you watch the event again carefully, you will notice that JHH only said once that GTX1080 is 25% faster than last gen in DX games. That is GTX1080 is 25% faster than TITAN X. This is like an overclocked GTX980ti, witch is slower than FuryX in DX-12.
Do the calc and Polaris 10 could come close to 90% or even faster than GTX1080 in DX-12 titles at 1080p/1440p.

IF AMD do the launch like i said above, and review sites test Polaris 10 in DX-12 games, it will be the best AMD GPU Launch since HD5870.

 

[tential]

Why would you counter-argue jacking up the price?

Companies are to make money, so they increase the prices to maximize the profits, we get it.

Consumers want to get more for less. Counter-arguing high pricing makes one no longer a consumer.

I'm wondering about the founders edition volume. Could we see GPU launches based on prototypes and early engineering samples in the future?

Because a $450 gtx 1070 is about to dominate the market until a week before amd releases and then drop to 380 and have a 1060ti founders edition that will prove drop the day amd releases cards.

Consumers are eating up higher prices and amd can't seem to offer a killer product so in the end who can blame amd? If they could outpace Nvidia in performance definitely they'd sell more no chips.

 

[AtenRa]

It's not that simple. The reviewers will make a huge deal of gaming the system. They will not take it. Heck, I wouldn't like cherry-picked reviews, either.

However, Nvidia, on the other hand, is much better at this. They know how to butter up their reviewers. This past event in Texas was a prime example of clouding their heads. Nvidia threw everything at those "reviewers". They had horseback riding, river wrathing, gambling, DJs, clubing, alcohol, fancy food, etc. Heck, Nvidia even bought out an entire theater so the reviewers can get a special viewing of Captain America: The Civil War. Everything was paid for!! They really butter those reviewers up real good.

It worked. Instead of asking Nvidia the real hard questions. They ate up whatever Nvidia feed them.

Founders Edition? Nice. Pretty cooler.
2X performance of GTX 980SLI? WOW!!!
2x performance, 3x power efficiency of a Titan X? **Head explodes**.

Nevermind the fact that everything Nvidia said were heavily cherry-picked.

Nvidia is the master of marketing. It just makes it a lot easier for reviewers to side with Nvidia. I totally understand why "reviewers" are more forgiving of Nvidia. It makes total sense.

I dont disagree, but it is another thing to attend to the event and see PR slides and another thing when you get the GPU at the reviewers hands and test it against the GTX980Ti OC models or Titan X.

Does anyone here expect GTX1080 to be faster than FuryX in DX-12 games ???

 

[airfathaaaaa]

Because a $450 gtx 1070 is about to dominate the market until a week before amd releases and then drop to 380 and have a 1060ti founders edition that will prove drop the day amd releases cards.

Consumers are eating up higher prices and amd can't seem to offer a killer product so in the end who can blame amd? If they could outpace Nvidia in performance definitely they'd sell more no chips.

who will drop a highly clocked card from 450 to 380 while the normal one will start from 379?
also who in the right mind will launch it just for a week if the rumors are true and they are expecting the normal cards on july that means that they are expecting those cards to sell at least for a month...before the normal ones comes and essentially kill those

 

[tential]

This is exactly why the AMD Hype train crashes and burns. This is all based speculation, and hopes.



If you're mining, your GPU should always be free I did a short stint in mining, paid for my 7970. Then I mined some more, and welps I'm sure you know the rest. (There is a reason why I have a 290X in the basement .



TIL: Milk cost $4500 in EU. No wonder you guys are always angry.

Polaris 10 people can't decide if it's faster than a 980ti or not.... 90% of a 1080 is well faster than Fiji yet nothing we've heard points to that.

 

[AtenRa]

Something else, take this slide

2x Perf, 3x efficiency in VR gaming

NVIDIA PR department had to have higher efficiency than AMDs 2.5x PR department

And now compare to this,

Less than 2x performance over GTX980 at higher TDP.
So in DX Gaming (where most people care about), GTX1080 has lower perf/watt than 2x vs GTX980.

NOBODY actually commented on that :sneaky:

 

[xpea]

If you watch the event again carefully, you will notice that JHH only said once that GTX1080 is 25% faster than last gen in DX games. That is GTX1080 is 25% faster than TITAN X. This is like an overclocked GTX980ti, witch is slower than FuryX in DX-12.
Do the calc and Polaris 10 could come close to 90% or even faster than GTX1080 in DX-12 titles at 1080p/1440p.

IF AMD do the launch like i said above, and review sites test Polaris 10 in DX-12 games, it will be the best AMD GPU Launch since HD5870.

You don't seem to understand that Pascal will do fine on DX12, not like Maxwell. It has been covered here and on other technical forums like beyond3D multiple times. So all your argument is falling apart...

Does anyone here expect GTX1080 to be faster than FuryX in DX-12 games ???

Absolutely. No contest, GTX1080 will have a good lead aver Fury X on DX12 (at least 30% when you consider this insane 2GHz OC that Nvidia guarantees)

 

[iiiankiii]

Something else, take this slide

2x Perf, 3x efficiency in VR gaming

NVIDIA PR department had to have higher efficiency than AMDs 2.5x PR department

And now compare to this,

Less than 2x performance over GTX980 at higher TDP.
So in DX Gaming (where most people care about), GTX1080 has lower perf/watt than 2x vs GTX980.

NOBODY actually commented on that :sneaky:

Oh, I noticed right off the bat. It was pretty clear when I saw it. Also, the reason why they compared the 1080 to the Titan X is because the Titan X only comes in a reference cooler. It sounds good to compare the 1080 to a Titan X because it's more expensive than the GTX980TI; yet slower.

Although, since most 980TI comes factory overclocked, the performance gains against the 980TI wouldn't look as great. Most 980TIs sold are easily 15-20% faster than a Titan X.

In reality, the 1080 will be a side grade for most 980TI owners. Just like the 980 was a sidegrade for most 780TI owners. They know what they're doing.

 

[AtenRa]

Polaris 10 people can't decide if it's faster than a 980ti or not.... 90% of a 1080 is well faster than Fiji yet nothing we've heard points to that.

You do understand Im ONLY talking about DX-12

 

[AtenRa]

You don't seem to understand that Pascal will do fine on DX12, not like Maxwell. It has been covered here and on other technical forums like beyond3D multiple times. So all your argument is falling apart...



Absolutely. No contest, GTX1080 will have a good lead aver Fury X on DX12 (at least 30% when you consider this insane 2GHz OC that Nvidia guarantees)

The only DX-12 game i see GTX1080 being faster than FuryX is Tomb Rider.

 

[Dresdenboy]

One possibility is that Polaris 10 is actually a larger chip on par with GP104, and that 232mm^2 figure from LinkedIn was either for a future SKU or an experimental product that never made it out of the lab.

It very likely is Polaris 10's die size:

http://videocardz.com/59487/amd-polaris-11-and-10-gpus-pictured

 

[airfathaaaaa]

It very likely is Polaris 10's die size:

http://videocardz.com/59487/amd-polaris-11-and-10-gpus-pictured

so relative speaking
if a fiji was only to die shrink it would be how much? 210mm2?

 

[boozzer]

man, I think I will wait for benchmarks. the only bench available atm showed that 1080 is 5% faster than the best 980 ti, which was selling for 700-800. gamers who buy a 750$ gpu would not care about anything but top performance/driver support. this segment doesn't care about money. amd should capitalize on it too, but it needs a product to do so.

for the rest of us, there is always polaris and 1070. still need benchmarks for both.

 

[amenx]

Do the calc and Polaris 10 could come close to 90% or even faster than GTX1080 in DX-12 titles at 1080p/1440p.

IF AMD do the launch like i said above, and review sites test Polaris 10 in DX-12 games, it will be the best AMD GPU Launch since HD5870.

I hope you're right. Normally I would be looking at the 1070 as a potential upgrade. But seeing how gaming development has mostly shifted to AMDs side over last couple years and giving their hardware more staying power, am now more interested in Polaris than Pascal. I hope AMD can pull another 4870 vs 280 feat. Even if pricing is not less than the 1070 but performance same, am ready to make the move to red side this time around.

 

[xpea]

The only DX-12 game i see GTX1080 being faster than FuryX is Tomb Rider.

we will see on time but don't hope too much..
and Doom on Vulkan looks to have a very close cooperation with nvidia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y3LaLJoo0s

 

[AtenRa]

so relative speaking
if a fiji was only to die shrink it would be how much? 210mm2?

Fiji on 14nm would be bigger than that, ~300-320mm2 perhaps.

 

[iiiankiii]

You don't seem to understand that Pascal will do fine on DX12, not like Maxwell. It has been covered here and on other technical forums like beyond3D multiple times. So all your argument is falling apart...



Absolutely. No contest, GTX1080 will have a good lead aver Fury X on DX12 (at least 30% when you consider this insane 2GHz OC that Nvidia guarantees)

From the leaked 3dmark benchmark, a stock GTX1080 was boosting upward of 1866mhz. 2000mhz isn't that much more than a stock GTX1080. The demo showed it overclocked to 2114mhz. That's only 13% from the stock boost speed.

Honestly, for it to be a worth upgrade to the GTX980TI, it would need to be able to clock around 2.3-2.4ghz. Nvidia told a lot of reviewers after the event that the 1080 is roughly 25% faster than a GTX980TI. That means a 1080 is as fast as fully overclocked GTX980TI (1500mhz). A 1080 @ 2.3-2.4ghz would make it roughly 20-25% faster than a 1500mhz GTX980TI. is it enough to warrant an upgrade? Maybe....

 

[airfathaaaaa]

Fiji on 14nm would be bigger than that, ~300-320mm2 perhaps.

298mm2(from a die shrink alone) 596mm2

so p10 will be larger than a 390x(438mm2/2) relative speaking

 

[maddie]

After reading the posts defending Nvidia prices and business practices, it's becoming obvious why AMD targeted the biggest segments of the market.

I'm fairly certain, no manufacturer would ever use the arguments used here in Nvidia's defence and pay more. AMD can compete on merit in that space.

 

[Silverforce11]

DX12 and the console effect is no longer an advantage for GCN with the changes in Pascal. If devs optimize for frequent compute/copy queues, it will run just fine on Pascal. If devs optimize for wavefront/work groups of 64, it will run great on Pascal.

DX12 Async Compute however, will remain a GCN advantage, so there's potential for 10-20% uplift for titles that support it. But not many will, AMD has to sponsor the development and add it.

This is a NV responding to the chess play AMD set in motion years ago. It works in NV's favor too, because as more games become DX12 or GCN optimized, Kepler is dead and Maxwell takes a dirt nap. Do you know what the result will be? People will upgrade to Pascal. NV is going to bank it big time unless AMD can somehow shift the mindshare back to their side. But to me, it seems like the majority, if they look to upgrade cos their older stuff is not performing, they look to the latest NV GPU.