Any of you hippies protest at Wall Street?

[FelixDeCat]

Hmm?

That was a reference to the movie Goodfellas.

 

[Postbiological]

I think he was trying to be assertive.

 

[LegendKiller]

No but they influenced the economic conditions under which it was bought.

A lot of people influenced those economic conditions, including the very people who bought the houses.

The single biggest "condition", aptly named since it is purely psychological, is that people began to think of housing as an "investment" first and not as a house. This made it just another speculative investment, driving a bubble mentality.

If you want to blame somebody, make sure you include your neighbors.

 

[halik]

I still don't see how the growing income gap (legitimate issue for tax policy imo) or wall street has anything to do with people's grad school loans, having kids while having no money or having a shitty job for extended period of time.

I lived with my parents after finishing grad school in 08, sold my benz * and got somethign 1/3 the cost, racked up CC debt to pay for my bills (0% apr rolled over at 3%) and eventually found a job that wasn't anywhere near what I wanted to. Such is life - gotta make do with the cards you're dealt.

* paid for myself from job before grad school.

 

[dwell]

That was a reference to the movie Goodfellas. Maybe he is suggesting that crime might pay?

Nah. Just saying if you can't find work there's always shining shoes.

For the record, I don't know which percent I am in frankly. I am just sick of whiners blaming everyone but themselves for the situation they're in. Most of these protesters are barely in their 20s complaining how hard they got it. Give me a break. They just want something to bitch about because their rich daddies never hugged them when they were kids. Boo hoo.

 

[bfdd]

I still don't see how the growing income gap (legitimate issue for tax policy imo) or wall street has anything to do with people's grad school loans, having kids while having no money or having a shitty job for extended period of time.

I lived with my parents after finishing grad school in 08, racked up CC debt to pay for my bills (0% apr rolled over at 3%) and eventually found a job that wasn't anywhere near what I wanted to. Such is life - gotta make do with the cards you have.

Just think of all the time you wasted doing something that could have been better spent bitching about it! God what a waste halik.

 

[Ns1]

I still don't see how the growing income gap (legitimate issue for tax policy imo) or wall street has anything to do with people's grad school loans, having kids while having no money or having a shitty job for extended period of time.

I lived with my parents after finishing grad school in 08, sold my benz * and got somethign 1/3 the cost, racked up CC debt to pay for my bills (0% apr rolled over at 3%) and eventually found a job that wasn't anywhere near what I wanted to. Such is life - gotta make do with the cards you're dealt.

* paid for myself from job before grad school.

need someone to blame

 

[Postbiological]

A lot of people influenced those economic conditions, including the very people who bought the houses.

The single biggest "condition", aptly named since it is purely psychological, is that people began to think of housing as an "investment" first and not as a house. This made it just another speculative investment, driving a bubble mentality.

If you want to blame somebody, make sure you include your neighbors.

Mmhmm, and just because a lot of people influenced those conditions, that doesn't mean they all influenced them to the same degree or in the same ways.

 

[Postbiological]

need someone to blame

This is such a ridiculous argument. It's beyond legitimate to criticize and attempt to change, if necessary, the circumstances in which one finds themselves. This is the only way progress has ever been made, and the wealthy most certainly make a point to do this.

 

[bfdd]

Mmhmm, and just because a lot of people influenced those conditions, that doesn't mean they all influenced them to the same degree or in the same ways.

So then they should receive an equal portion of the blame. It doesn't matter how responsible for the situation you are, it took a ton of idiots compounding their idiocy on top of each other in order for the shit storm to have occurred. You know what they say about pointing fingers right? You have 4 pointed right back at yourself.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Nah. Just saying if you can't find work there's always shining shoes.

For the record, I don't know which percent I am in frankly. I am just sick of whiners blaming everyone but themselves for the situation they're in. Most of these protesters are barely in their 20s complaining how hard they got it. Give me a break. They just want something to bitch about because their rich daddies never hugged them when they were kids. Boo hoo.

Oh, I see. Welp, things were better for me then than they are now. Overpopulation and a lack of jobs dont go well together. Ive said it before and Ill say it again, America is not what it used to be but if you look at other nations that have been around longer than we have they have gone through boom and bust cycles until the population exceeds the resources necessary to be somewhat well off.

 

[Postbiological]

So then they should receive an equal portion of the blame. It doesn't matter how responsible for the situation you are, it took a ton of idiots compounding their idiocy on top of each other in order for the shit storm to have occurred. You know what they say about pointing fingers right? You have 4 pointed right back at yourself.

I guess you missed my point. They shouldn't receive an equal share of the blame, they should receive a proportionate share of the blame, and the proportion of the blame that goes to the corrupt folks on Wall Street who set up the system that resulted in the economic cataclysm is much higher.

 

[LegendKiller]

Mmhmm, and just because a lot of people influenced those conditions, that doesn't mean they all influenced them to the same degree or in the same ways.

No? I know just as many greedy fuckers who bought 2-3 homes than I do greedy fuckers on the 'Street.

 

[Postbiological]

No. I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that the people buying a few houses influenced the economy to the same degree, or with the same intent, as the puppet masters on Wall Street.

 

[halik]

No. I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that the people buying a few houses influenced the economy to the same degree, or with the same intent, as the puppet masters on Wall Street.

Not exactly - it's a zero sum game. Now we're all paying for all the people that took out second leans or sold their houses and made a boatload of money*. They all ended up making and spending money from the housing boom and now we're paying for that in the housing bust.

*The guy that bought a shiny new car, because he sold his house with 200K profit. The guy that got a nice bonus, because he gave some subprime person a house loan. The subprime person that lived in a house they should've never had. The guy on wall street that got a bonus for spinning the mortgages into instruments. Each one of us with 401K that has some exposure to real estate. The guy at the capitol hill that got re-elected, because he pushed for policy to give mortgages to people with shitty credit scores. People at Moody's/S&P that got bonuses rating a large volume of structured vehicles. And the list goes on and on ... Bubbles are big party that everyone likes to attend.

 

[Postbiological]

And they did so under a system conceived on Wall Street ... look, the bankers / people on Wall Street are much more sophisticated than the average home buyer, and can act from a macro perspective in instituting a lending system ... the people buying the homes are neither as culpable individually or in aggregate.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Join the military.

There are 14 million positions available in the military? I find that almost impossible to believe.

Just looked it up, we currently have roughly 1.5 million active duty military in our combined armed forces. You solution is to increase our military 9 fold?

Try again genius.

 

[halik]

And they did so under a system conceived on Wall Street ... look, the bankers / people on Wall Street are much more sophisticated than the average home buyer, and can act from a macro perspective in instituting a lending system ... the people buying the homes are neither as culpable individually or in aggregate.

Really? The freddie mac and fannie mae subprime securitization mandates predate wall street subprime volumes by some 5-10 years. Canada has had the same mortgage securitization as US ("wall street") for the last 20 years with a different outcome. Same interest rate policy as well.

The point is, there's plenty of blame to go around, pointing out one culprit merely shows your bias.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Not one person has responded to any of the substance that I or others posted. Instead, it's been 3 more pages of dogmatic talkikng points.

Yawn - take it to P&N.

 

[LegendKiller]

And they did so under a system conceived on Wall Street ... look, the bankers / people on Wall Street are much more sophisticated than the average home buyer, and can act from a macro perspective in instituting a lending system ... the people buying the homes are neither as culpable individually or in aggregate.

This is the problem. You sit around thinking that it's not the individual's fault for not looking at the up and downside to every decision. You've abrogated all responsibility from the individual to the banker, but isn't that abrogation of responsibility a dereliction of humanity and free will that is inherent in every free person's duty? Whose fault is that? It's absolutely NOT the bankers fault. They are at fault for other reasons, but not because the borrower can't figure out they cannot afford all of their trash in the long-run.

I lived in Orlando during the height of the housing. You could see the signs everywhere and everybody threw loans and houses at me. I didn't do it because I knew it wasn't responsible. I knew I had student loans, credit cards, a car, and a wedding to pay for.

Of course, my reasonable thinking is so rare these days because you've actually placed all responsibility for it upon the bankers and not upon ourselves. You bitch about being slave to Wall Street but want to be a slave to them.

Do you not see the logical fallacy there?

 

[bfdd]

I guess you missed my point. They shouldn't receive an equal share of the blame, they should receive a proportionate share of the blame, and the proportion of the blame that goes to the corrupt folks on Wall Street who set up the system that resulted in the economic cataclysm is much higher.

Uh... so what share of the blame does government get if Wall Street gets the majority of it? Everything they have done was with the blessing of government. That's why asking the government to take a stand against the finance sector is retarded, they're in it together. You want change, stop voting. Stop spending money. Stop participating in society and start destroying society because this whole society is the problem. If you're not willing to make that sacrifice, shut the fuck up. All this "revolutionary" talk and no action. Pussies.

 

[bfdd]

TheAdvocate, you're saying we're following the same path as Japans lost generation. I disagree. We are making similar mistakes, but ours are far more grand and there is no giant entity out there that we can feed on to save us.

 

[SandEagle]

Not one person has responded to any of the substance that I or others posted. Instead, it's been 3 more pages of dogmatic talkikng points.

Yawn - take it to P&N.

this wasn't meant to be a P&N-type thread. General Butthead Fatranus threw everything off track. I just wanted to know if anyone here was at or had planned to protest as Wall Frickin Street :\

 

[Patranus]

this wasn't meant to be a P&N-type thread. General Butthead Fatranus threw everything off track. I just wanted to know if anyone here was at or had planned to protest as Wall Frickin Street :\

You took it off that topic with your commentary in the OP and it was 100% off topic by post 4 or 5.

Then again, the theme of this thread is personal responsibility.

 

[XX55XX]

I live in Boston, and protests have been starting to materialize here.

I appreciate the protest against cronyism and lemon socialism, but the protesters are mostly filled with people in their 20s who don't seem have any direction or goals in life. They came together because they wanted to fulfill the lack of purpose they feel in their lives. It's not because of true economic hardship - people just want to become part of something greater than themselves. And Occupy Wall Street offers an avenue for that. For people to come together and be part of something "great", even if the movement has few coherent goals or demands.

That's my theory, anyway. It's all about fulfilling that psychological need for purpose in one's life.

At any rate, I would love to go there and hang out for all of eternity, but I have a future to look forward to. Even if it is not very bright...