Any introverts/poor conversationalists fixed themselves?

[child of wonder]

I have little trouble with public speaking or when conversations turn to a "deeper" nature like science, philosophy, technology, politics, religion, etc. however when I'm with my co-workers at the bar, at lunch, or just hanging out at the office my mind just goes blank. They have this nice, fluid, organic conversation and I can't think of anything to say so I end up being the quiet guy that just sits there and politely laughs. Once in a while I think of something to say, but I'd say my participation in the conversations is about 10% of everyone else.

Yet, I go home and hang out with my wife, whom I feel completely comfortable with, and we can talk for hours.

To make matters worse, since I'm not "one of the guys" I don't get invited to golf outings, happy hours after work, pet projects with vendors, and so on, which means when they start talking about something funny at the last round of golf, something another co-worker said or did, etc. I'm totally out of the loop. They all seem to converse with each other and invite each other to things behind the scenes but I'm not included. I'm sure I'm not seen as interesting so the thought of inviting me doesn't come to mind. This is a huge problem at tech conferences as everyone makes plans to go to dinner, a strip club, or whatever and no one bothers to tell me. So I either have to harass everyone to find out what they're doing or sit alone.

My mind simply shuts down when I'm with co-workers or clients in social situations and nothing comes to mind to say. It's incredibly frustrating.

 

[mrjminer]

Development of an alternate personality when you go into the rest of the world helps.
I try to find cues / listen to whoever I'm interacting with, then become what their expectation of me is. So, if someone is trying to talk to me about cars, I listen long enough to be able to formulate some bullshit conveying I am also a car guy (I know nothing about cars). I doubt that anyone in the world really knows me, though I often give them the impression that they do.

This is a difficult thing to overcome, so the option I present is, instead, coping. Sometimes, though, you choose the wrong personality and it doesn't really help much.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I actually don't have much trouble talking about business. I am expected to build rapport with clients I provide service for and ask customers about the service my employees have provided them. When it comes to this I fail miserably. I see them as the skills I would need to talk to a stranger in a bar. I suck at this.

Last time I was at a bar even surrounded by friends I eventually just stopped talking and sat there like a lump on a log.

I am fine saying hi to people and starting the conversation there just comes a point where either me or the person I am talking run out of things to say and then I just shut down entirely. I want to learn how to recover from this.

 

[drbrock]

I actually don't have much trouble talking about business. I am expected to build rapport with clients I provide service for and ask customers about the service my employees have provided them. When it comes to this I fail miserably. I see them as the skills I would need to talk to a stranger in a bar. I suck at this.

Last time I was at a bar even surrounded by friends I eventually just stopped talking and sat there like a lump on a log.

I am fine saying hi to people and starting the conversation there just comes a point where either me or the person I am talking run out of things to say and then I just shut down entirely. I want to learn how to recover from this.

When it comes to situations like this I always try to follow George Costanza. Leave on a high note. Have 2 or 3 lines or topics you can talk about and then bail when the conversation is good. I do this at weddings/networking events all the time. More people will remember you positively.

Toastmasters is great for public speaking but not for social situations. I find a lot of tips through dating/pickup artist books. The more and more I apply some of the techniques that are obviously modified to not be stupid, it works. I find them to be far more powerful than the self help business books about networking.

As far as being with friends just relax. If you don't talk much it does not mean they are not your friends. They probably don't even notice. I am far more annoyed at my friends who never stop talking over my more quiet friends.

 

[boomhower]

Sort of. I can flip a switch at work and do it but outside of that am still very introvert. Still horribly suck at public speaking though.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

How did you do it?

I've been trying hard lately to build up my people skills because my work requires me to deal with all sorts of people all day. I feel really awkward about it most of the time, and am looking for ways to improve. Any ideas?

Time. Practice makes perfect. Many anxieties reduce with extended exposure unless your a clinical case. Just keep jumping in there, smile alot, and don't pay attention the the haters.

Having some life experiences to relay/relate with people helps. Being semi-aware of the current trends and topics people are interested in goes a long ways. Sports/hobbies always get some convo time. Travel, food, music, etc,. all good for throwing your $.02 in.

Good luck

 

[Stopsignhank]

I am just like most of you, I simply don't talk much. Not sure what to say and if I do is someone interested in what I am saying. However I am much better in a one on one conversation. Then you can always ask questions about the other person.

However I do give weekly meetings in front of the entire company. I have no problems doing that. I think because then I am talking about a subject that I know and I am presenting something. A conversation with people is more of an intimate thing and talking about myself. Not something I am comfortable doing.

 

[Kaido]

My mind simply shuts down when I'm with co-workers or clients in social situations and nothing comes to mind to say. It's incredibly frustrating.

I think this is the case with a lot of computer guys. I am not quick on my feet IRL. No snappy comebacks from me. I don't think fast enough for that, haha! But I am good at thought-out stuff, like posting on forums or writing guides.

OP, realizing a couple things helped me:

1. Most people are waiting for someone else to talk to them

2. Most people love talking about themselves

For #1, simply become the person who starts the conversation. Common small-talk topics include the weather or how work is going, throw-away stuff that isn't personal & doesn't require any thinking. It's a little nerve-wracking getting started, but no one is going to tear your head off for commenting on the weather - "cold day huh man?"

For #2, if you don't know what to say, ask questions. Do anything fun over the weekend? How long have you been in your current position? People love to talk about themselves because they live in their head all day, so answering questions comes pretty naturally to most people. Just showing interest in someone else usually motivates them to keep talking, which is good if you're not great at conversation.

I was severely introverted up until I went to college & got a job. Then it flipped & I can blabber on all day. I don't know exactly what happened other than realizing the two things above. That and working at a bunch of crappy jobs made me realize how lonely people can get - being stuck in a dead-end career & being verbally abused by customers & supervisors all day is the case for a lot of people, so a lot of them are willing to talk for a minute while you pick up your pizza or checkout at the grocery store line.

My wife is always shocked how I can chat up anyone like we're old friends - checkout people, waiters, whoever. She was a social butterfly in school, but I'm a lot more social with random people that you meet throughout the day, I guess because I dealt with the public a lot in various jobs in the past. There's kind of a common discussion flow that people have too, kind of like the "working hard or hardly working, eh?" bit - everyone is kind of going through a similar grind, so there's some common language that you can use to talk to people easily.

You'll pick it up pretty quick if you just start approaching people and saying what's up or how's your day going so far or whatever. This has been especially helpful in my jobs as an on-site IT technician because I have to deal with hundreds of people; once you figure out that kind of conversational flow of just being the first to say hi & asking a couple questions, it becomes a piece of cake. Especially with computer problems where people are frustrated & can't work because their machine is down, you can always just say something like "man computers are stupid, huh?" "Yeah they are! Tell me about it!" Blah blah blah. Think of being the first to talk & asking questions as kindling for the conversational fire - it gets it started in most cases, unless the other person isn't good at small talk either haha.

A smile never hurts either. There's a good saying that goes something like "be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard fight". Basically everyone's going through something crappy that is specific to their situation, so just saying "how's your day going" with a smile doesn't hurt too much. Practice on checkout girls at the store - they're usually ignored all day and are getting paid minimum wage, so having anyone give them a bright point in their day is always a plus. A lot of it just boils down to practice...once you realize the points above & try them out (which involves getting over the nervousness of being the first one to talk & asking questions), you'll realize most people are on the same page as you. There are some people who are just naturally good at having conversations, but I think most people are kind of in the middle - they'll talk if someone talks to them first, and they're happy to talk about themselves if you start out by asking them some questions.

That's pretty much all I know. It just takes practice & getting over that initial fear of being the first to say something. A lot of it is the "as if" principle - act as if you're already cool, you're already great at having conversations, etc. So if you have a co-worker you always have to talk to, just be proactive and say what's up, do anything fun this weekend? It gets better over time. Unfortunately I've also seen a lot of geeks who struggle with this & become super crabby. Then you turn into Nick Burns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfKL6RM8hsY

:biggrin:

 

[FeuerFrei]

Smile. If you're looking approachable you'll get a lot more play. Surprising how many strangers will strike up a conversation - taking the onus off of you. Of course you might feel silly smiling for no reason ...

 

[schneiderguy]

r/socialism

Well that explains a lot.

 

[Kaido]

Smile. If you're looking approachable you'll get a lot more play. Surprising how many strangers will strike up a conversation - taking the onus off of you. Of course you might feel silly smiling for no reason ...

Yeah, I think a lot of it is just the psychology behind social anxiety. I think most people aren't conversation-starters; they're waiting for someone who approaches them with a friendly invitation to chat. I mean, if someone were to come up to YOU with a smile and say what's up man, how's your day going? Then you don't feel like they're going to rip your head off, and it's easy to say "not bad" and strike up a conversation in return.

And so if you become the person with the smile & the question, then you're the one offering a friendly invitation to chat, and that's a door that most people are willing to walk through because you've made it easy for them to talk to you. It's a small nervousness to overcome, but once you realize how dang easy it is, you'll be a pro in no time. I mean, this whole discussing is probably over-thinking everything, but I had to go through this process myself because I had such a difficult time talking to people & never knew what to say.

I actually have a good friend who is absolutely terrible about talking about himself, but he's phenomenal at asking questions & just being genuinely interested without being manipulative. I've seen him keep people talking for hours by asking them questions about their jobs, projects, hobbies, etc., and yet he'll never say anything about himself because he's a super shy dude. Super smart, but super shy.

Just practicing a couple strategies like that will get the ball rolling. Talk to the people you checkout with - gas station dude, grocery checkout girl, bank taller, waitress or waiter, whoever. Be friendly & be the first to ask a mundane question about how their day is going or how about that crazy weather? Again, it's just kind of kindling for the fire. Once you get the hang of it, it becomes a cinch.

 

[Aikouka]

I just try to take the initiative and strike up a conversation or at least talk to the person when I want to. For example, I was in Target yesterday, and I heard these two 20-ish girls speaking a language that I couldn't understand. So, I just went and asked them what language they're speaking. They said it was Italian, and if I was any good at conversing, I would have used my awesome Assassin's Creed II knowledge and responded with, "multo bene!"

however when I'm with my co-workers at the bar, at lunch, or just hanging out at the office my mind just goes blank. They have this nice, fluid, organic conversation and I can't think of anything to say so I end up being the quiet guy that just sits there and politely laughs. Once in a while I think of something to say, but I'd say my participation in the conversations is about 10% of everyone else.

My mind simply shuts down when I'm with co-workers or clients in social situations and nothing comes to mind to say. It's incredibly frustrating.

I feel the same way, and I attribute it to being the quiet, awkward kid in high school. Essentially, I was a bit socially awkward, which in high school, that is about as up there as having two heads. I learned rather quickly that I was better off just never really talking. The problem is... I think that behavior followed me and it's rather involuntary at this point. I can talk with people that I know well, and the conversation is rather natural, but introduce a random person in the equation and I clam up. It usually takes me awhile to come up with any good retorts, but with people that I know well, I can toss 'em out like they're going out of style.

I'm still so worried about what other people think of me that I can't even manage to make a good impression. It's like an endless cycle of sucky social situations!

 

[Kaido]

The Oatmeal to the rescue!

http://imgur.com/gallery/1Q635

 

[Kaido]

I'm still so worried about what other people think of me that I can't even manage to make a good impression. It's like an endless cycle of sucky social situations!

http://invisiblebread.com/2014/03/in-public/

 

[BurnItDwn]

Introversion/extroversion is more about preference for crowds or solitude. It's about do you get exhausted/tired from being around people and need downtime to recharge, or do you go nuts when you're alone and need to go out to crowds to recharge.

While, most extroverts, due to more exposure, tend to be good in conversations, it does not mean that introverts are not as capable of gaining the same skills.

I'm introverted, but I'm quite capable in a conversation, and while I get drained/exhausted by crowds, I am able to enjoy the moment when I go out to a busy bar or whatever.

I think my professional confidence/skills in the workplace have helped my social skills outside of the office quite a bit. Even if I'm not "super ladies man", I'm quite comfortable in my own skin, and I'm not shy or afraid.

That said, I don't look at people as potential mates or try to hit on people really. I may flirt with a waitress or woman at a bar, but, I don't try to pick them up since I already have someone at home. I do not think I could explain myself out of it if something were to happen....

 

[nickbits]

Introversion and social anxiety/awkwardness are not the same thing. I don't think you need to "fix" introversion but fixing awkwardness isn't a bad idea.

Forcing myself to be social is what was helping me but I have no motivation now that I'm married. My wife is introverted but she isn't socially awkward like I am.

 

[Ns1]

Joining Toastmasters was something my cousin did.

this.

In college, I also joined a fraternity. Both helped, a lot, but at the end of the day I'm still an introvert.

 

[silicon]

How did you do it?

I've been trying hard lately to build up my people skills because my work requires me to deal with all sorts of people all day. I feel really awkward about it most of the time, and am looking for ways to improve. Any ideas?

it takes a force of will to improve your people skills. Myself I am very self-conscious when speaking to a group of people and its a debilitating problem. It can be over come with time and effort and one must never letup in the trying department. I know all to well what it means to be petrified to speak in public...and for no reason really...but its not the rationale that takes hold it the irrational fear..of what i do not know.

 

[OCGuy]

Its just as much nurture as it is nature. The wrong type and amount of negative interpersonal feedback at a crucial time in development can impact you for life if you let it.

The GABA receptors in the brain are what control the anxiety and social empathy, which benzodiazepines like Xanax and Valium target to relieve those feelings. Hopefully science can find a way to accomplish what those drugs do without actually taking that awful poison.

 

[Chapbass]

I feel I would be in this group. When I was young I was very introverted, I had my couple close friends and wasn't very comfortable going beyond that.

In HS a lot of that changed. Its hard for me to say exactly when or how it happened, but I gained a huge amount of confidence in myself. A couple important things I've noticed just over time (HS was 10+ years ago for me now, I'm 29):

1. Spend some money and time, and get some really great clothes. Make sure they fit well and go together. For you 20 and 30 somethings (and even younger than that), check out Primer Magazine for ideas (google it, specifically their section called "The Getup"). I know this is going to get a little bit of flak from some people here, but how you dress DOES MATTER. First, people look at you differently. Before you even open your mouth or shake their hand or look at them, they see someone who is put together. Knowing this, you'll immediately feel more confident (and therefore speak louder, clearer, and with more resolve) than someone who looks like they just rolled out of bed.

2. Stop caring about what people who might never see you again think about you. This is easier said than done. Seriously though, theres been times when I've thought "bleh, I don't want to say the wrong thing and screw this conversation up", but then I say to myself "you know what, screw it." and IMMEDIATELY when I saw "screw it" in my head, I start to say whatever i was thinking (not screw it) out loud. Once you've said the first 2 words, theres no stopping and you just start talking.

3. A few posts up, Child of Wonder mentioned something that caught my eye. He said "I end up being the quiet guy that just sits there and politely laughs." Now, this doesn't apply totally to social groups like he was talking about(think 4-7 people), but with 2-3 people, try to get at least a couple words in every couple sentences. Whether its just a "Oh thats really cool" or "huh, I didn't think about that before" or WHATEVER, just the fact that you're saying SOMETHING is huge. It gets you more comfortable hearing your own voice around people you dont know. From there you can go into a sentence of your own. For example "Oh, thats really cool. I didn't realize they just released an expansion for Diablo 3...maybe I'll have to revisit it". I think a lot of true introverts would think that sentence in their head but not actually say it. But by saying that out loud to the person you're talking with, you're adding something (even if you just think it small talk or that they don't really need to know you're interested in D3...or even if you aren't, doesn't matter), and it makes the other person feel like you give a shit.

Okay, this got a lot more preachy than I was originally planning, so I'm just gonna post this here and maybe I'll add some more later on.

 

[Chapbass]

Its just as much nurture as it is nature. The wrong type and amount of negative interpersonal feedback at a crucial time in development can impact you for life if you let it.

The GABA receptors in the brain are what control the anxiety and social empathy, which benzodiazepines like Xanax and Valium target to relieve those feelings. Hopefully science can find a way to accomplish what those drugs do without actually taking that awful poison.

Yeah, this is a very good point. A lot of it can be due to what type of reinforcement you received when you were very young. I've heard some Asian friends of mine that say their parents are very very strict and harsh on them, and often times that type of negative reinforcement can make a child very withdrawn and inward.

 

[T9D]

I don't even really like joining conversations much. People always just talk about stupid pointless shallow crap. I have no interest in whatsoever. And if you try to have a real conversation with some depth and knowledge they look at you like an alien. And most people can only relate what they saw on the news or whatever. I also can't stand that they always expect you to be like a stand up comedian with very word you say. It's like society has turned into real life sitcom talk where everything is some lame one liner. I can't stand it. Seems everyone knows a little bit about a lot of lame things. I'd rather talk about a lot of information about one thing at a time even. You also have to push yourself into a conversation. You should just be able to freely talk and we listen to each other. taking turns. But instead It's like a fight for first place social funny man winner. It's totally lame.

 

[MongGrel]

And thus, we have forums for conversations.

:biggrin:

 

[HeXen]

I did. For the most part that is, however, despite my speech skills have improved tremendously, when I'm engaged in a convo I want to be out of it. Especially talking with strangers, it's not something I enjoy and I feel like I really don't give a crap about knowing this person. With cashiers, phone calls...etc, I tend to be all business but have been told by others that I'm very good at it yet I hate it at the same time but I did get good at talking my way into what I want or get my point across.

Anyway, I did it simply be being forced into it more through work.

And thus, we have forums for conversations.

:biggrin:

Not really, forums like texting on phones is not the same as holding a conversation in realtime let alone face to face. Though speaking usually gets your point across far easier and quicker but I think most people enjoy texting more because it's on your own time without the awkward pauses of having someone right in front of you or holding the phone waiting.

 

[Ns1]

a tech forum dominated by introverts. in other news, there is porn on the internet.