Any gay ATOT'ers here?

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SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
Originally posted by: BigSmooth
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: Turin39789
Originally posted by: maximus maximus
I have a question... do any other animals, part from human beings, have a tendency to be gay?

Here's a list

That's a big list, but it'd be more interesting if it included details about the homosexual behavior that has been observed in each of those animals. The criteria at the top are pretty broad.

Bit more info here

* Homosexual behaviour in male sheep (found in 6-10% of rams) is associated with variations in cerebral mass distribution and chemical activity. A study reported in Endocrinology concluded that biological and physiological factors are in effect.[5] These findings are similar to human findings studied by Simon LeVay.

"Approximately eight percent of [male] rams exhibit sexual preferences [that is, even when given a choice] for male partners (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female partners (female-oriented rams). We identified a cell group within the medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus of age-matched adult sheep that was significantly larger in adult rams than in ewes..."

Just as people have cancer, and other diseases, so to can a physiological change cause an animal to be homosexual over being heterosexual.

Just because something occurs naturally does not mean that it is "natural". It is natural for humans to have five fingers, but some are born with six. This occurs in nature, but it isn't "natural".

I don't believe we know enough about human physiology let alone the entire animal kingdom to be able to document all physical differences between "gays" and "straights". Though some are naturally born that way, other people and I believe animals too make the choice and lifestyle change based off of life experiences.

To the OP, I can see where people would like to change just to drop the social stigma, just as people would choose to have money to avoid the hardships of being poor. I am sure some people in that lifestyle feel that they are wrong, and hate themselves for being how they are, and they too would wish to change if they could. The other group of people that are comfortable etc, probably would see no reason to change.
 

bob4432

Lifer
Sep 6, 2003
11,727
46
91
Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
Just as people have cancer, and other diseases, so to can a physiological change cause an animal to be homosexual over being heterosexual.

wow, so they are saying that being homosexual is = to cancer and is a disease?? wonder who wrote that wiki article.....
 

SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
Originally posted by: bob4432
Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
Just as people have cancer, and other diseases, so to can a physiological change cause an animal to be homosexual over being heterosexual.

wow, so they are saying that being homosexual is = to cancer and is a disease?? wonder who wrote that wiki article.....

I wrote that, and I wasn't saying that homosexuality is the same as cancer and disease. But certain physiological differences in ones genetics can make you more susceptible. Cancer is our own cells mutating out of control. A disease is a foreign entity invading our body.

Completely different things. The thing is if a small percent of a species exhibits attributes that change the way it behaves then it can be ruled as a determining factor. Imagine one of those little math circles all intertwining.

If A is true, then B is true.
If B is true, then C is true.
But C being true doesn't mean B or A is true. Etc.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
I have a hard time believing genetics don't play at least some factor...

my mom had an identical twin sister. both my mom and her sister had two kids, the eldest a girl and the younger child a boy (my younger cousin and I were actually only born 4 days apart). their children were raised 3000 miles away from eachother in completely different enviornments (my parents lived in what was practically a hippy commune in oregon, whereas my cousins grew up in a somewhat conservative community in the NJ suburbs). my father and my cousins' father couldn't be any more different.

and yet, despite all these differences in enviornment and upbringing, both my mom and her twin sister each ended up having a gay child (me, and my older female cousin).
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,376
1,885
126
I am not homosexual, however, I am left handed. Sometimes I wish I was right handed, but I like how I am.

Platypus, you got guts man, mad props. Stay true to yourself.

 

animalia

Banned
Dec 15, 2006
792
0
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Best place to start asking is at a far right Christian church in the Colroado suburbs. ;) Ofcourse start with the leaders of the church, the guys condemning gays to hell.

The Church has no right in condemning anyone. Only God has that authority. That is why I am not Catholic (although many Protestant churches are beginning to use their power to claim authority over it's members).

I am a Catholic and in true Catholic faith, you should love everyone as you would want to be loved. Catholics, Muslims, Protestants, all have their own definitions of sin. Catholicism considers homosexuality a mortal sin. Catholics do not believe human beings have the power to condemn. We believe only God is to Judge.

Also, whether gays are born gay or nurtured to be gay is all opinion based on no fact. Psychologists don't even know for sure, so there is no way you can prove your opinions with fact.

Quoted from my psychology textbook (Psychology Themes and Variations by Wayne Weiten.)

"Despite the recent breakthroughs, much remains to be learned about the detrimants of sexual orientation. The pathways to homosexuality appear to be somewhat different for males as opposed to females. The fact that identical twins of gay subjects turn out to be gay only about half of the time suggests that genetic predisposition to homosexuality is not overpowering. Environmental influences probably contribute to the development of homosexuality, but the nature of these environmental factors remains a matter of speculation."
 

jakedeez

Golden Member
Jun 21, 2005
1,100
0
0
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: JS80

That does not prove the animal is "gay."

Sure it does, unless you'd believe a dude who says, "I'm not gay, I just like to exclusively have sex with other dudes".

Penguins on teh downlow.
 

jakedeez

Golden Member
Jun 21, 2005
1,100
0
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: JS80

You're not technically gay until you act out on it.

This is false, and ridiculous.

Your instinctual tendencies define whether you're gay or not. What you just said makes no sense. That's like saying that a guy isn't straight until they've had sex with a woman.

A guy knows he's gay, straight, or bi before he ever acts out on those tendencies. I knew I was straight before I ever was with a woman, since I was only sexually attracted to women. I'm not attracted to men.

Does someone who has tendencies to molest children but dies never acting upon it make him a pedophile?

Yes.

Noun 1. pedophile - an adult who is sexually attracted to children
 

Abe Froman

Golden Member
Dec 14, 2004
1,065
18
81
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Mrfrog840
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: moshquerade
imho, no one chooses to be gay. they are just born that way.

The spark that will cause the flames was just struck.
explain your comment.

I think he's saying that there are people who will disagree with you and this will turn into a flame war. But you were really just restating what the OP said, so he really can't blame you.
i welcome anyone to disagree with me, and i'd really like to hear an explanation of their position on the issue.

I disagree with you. I see no flames.

That was a very ignorant first statement moshquerade

You are not "born" gay. It is a lifestyle choice.
There have been people that choose to be gay, and then turned and choose to be straight.

You are not born gay. You cannot be born gay.. That is probably one of the most craziest things I have heard in awhile.

God did NOT intend for there to be homosexuals. If he did, he would of created adam and steve, not adam and eve.

MAN AND A WOMAN, NOT MAN AND MAN, or WOMAN AND WOMAN.
Who are YOU to call me ignorant? It is very au contraire.

Adam and Steve, did you make that up? No. Someone fed that to you.

to add...Religion also preaches that one should "Hate the sin, not the sinner."

No one is telling you to participate in the acts, but not to accept the people involved (not that I believe it is a sin, but for argumentative purposes...) Your actions and thoughts on the subject/people are merely hypocritical.
 

DefDC

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2003
1,858
1
81
Sorry people. The Bible says that a man laying with another man is an ABOMINATION. End of story....

Oh, wait... It also says that eating pork is an ABOMINATION. (<-exact word in referring to the consumption of pork, shellfish...)

God forbid you have gay sex while eating a ham sandwich. DOUBLE JEOPARDY! ;)

I've never understood the churches fascination with the gay people. Let it go. People are going to be gay. People are going to eat ham. People will eat meat on Friday. It's all the same level of offense... :)

And somebody beat me to the left handed comparison. The Japanese used to PUNISH children for trying to write with their left hand. They found it to be WRONG. It took a long time for them to figure out that abnormal does not equal wrong.

Can anybody explain to be why hetero people are commenting on why they think you aren't born with sexual preference? Sorry, you're opinion doesn't really mean anything. Why not tell me how you think childbirth feels?

Back when Dennis Miller was funny, he was commenting on human nature... He said that people started off killing each other due to religion, then race, and sexual orientation. Pretty soon it'll be eye color, hair length, and as soon as there's one person left standing, that crazy mother(%$er will attack the mirror... I'm not a pessimist, but unless we can get over there ant-high hurdles, it's the way we're going....

Thanks to Platypus and the other brave posters here. :beer: I lived a fairly sheltered, but non-bigoted upbringing, and I was happy to meet lots of new personality types, and cultures. It greatly enriched my life, opened my mind, and helped me to help others keep an open mind.
 

animalia

Banned
Dec 15, 2006
792
0
0
Originally posted by: DefDC
Sorry people. The Bible says that a man laying with another man is an ABOMINATION. End of story....

Oh, wait... It also says that eating pork is an ABOMINATION. (<-exact word in referring to the consumption of pork, shellfish...)

God forbid you have gay sex while eating a ham sandwich. DOUBLE JEOPARDY! ;)

I've never understood the churches fascination with the gay people. Let it go. People are going to be gay. People are going to eat ham. People will eat meat on Friday. It's all the same level of offense... :)

The Church isn't fascinated at all. It you who are fascinated by it all. The Catholic Church considers it a sin but is in no way fascinated by it.
 

3NF

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2005
1,345
0
0
Originally posted by: DefDC
Sorry people. The Bible says that a man laying with another man is an ABOMINATION. End of story....

Sorry, but I think most of the information written in the Bible is a bit skewed. I wouldn't take any of it literally :)

 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,600
1,005
126
Originally posted by: DefDC
Sorry people. The Bible says that a man laying with another man is an ABOMINATION. End of story....

What does it say about priests sexually molesting little boys?
 

DefDC

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2003
1,858
1
81
Errr.. Were people missing my point? :)

I actually wasn't slamming the church, or meaning to come off preachy... I just find it funny that Fred Phelps isn't out protesting the deli... Actually, I shouldn't be giving that idiot any ideas... :D
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
I'm REALLY, HONESTLY not trying to be offensive here, just curious. My curiosity stems from hearing about how hard it is for people to grow up gay. I mean, from peer pressure to parents it's not an easy thing, i'd imagine. Hell, from those two things alone i think you can make a pretty strong argument that being gay is genetic. I can't imagine many 12 year olds on the verge of adolescence thinking "hey, i think i'll be gay, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

Anyway, here's the question for any gays here: If you could snap your fingers and become heterosexual, would you? Or rather, since most of the gay people reading this have probably already established their lives around a gay identity... if you could have become heterosexual back when you first realized you were gay, would you? Imagine for a moment that you were just as attracted to women as you are to men. Imagine yourself not missing being gay, because you were never of that inclination to begin with.

So?



Could have just said "any fudge packers here"?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,841
48,582
136
Originally posted by: happy medium
Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
I'm REALLY, HONESTLY not trying to be offensive here, just curious. My curiosity stems from hearing about how hard it is for people to grow up gay. I mean, from peer pressure to parents it's not an easy thing, i'd imagine. Hell, from those two things alone i think you can make a pretty strong argument that being gay is genetic. I can't imagine many 12 year olds on the verge of adolescence thinking "hey, i think i'll be gay, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

Anyway, here's the question for any gays here: If you could snap your fingers and become heterosexual, would you? Or rather, since most of the gay people reading this have probably already established their lives around a gay identity... if you could have become heterosexual back when you first realized you were gay, would you? Imagine for a moment that you were just as attracted to women as you are to men. Imagine yourself not missing being gay, because you were never of that inclination to begin with.

So?



Could have just said "any fudge packers here"?

I can't wait for the highschools go back into session.:roll:
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: happy medium
Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
I'm REALLY, HONESTLY not trying to be offensive here, just curious. My curiosity stems from hearing about how hard it is for people to grow up gay. I mean, from peer pressure to parents it's not an easy thing, i'd imagine. Hell, from those two things alone i think you can make a pretty strong argument that being gay is genetic. I can't imagine many 12 year olds on the verge of adolescence thinking "hey, i think i'll be gay, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

Anyway, here's the question for any gays here: If you could snap your fingers and become heterosexual, would you? Or rather, since most of the gay people reading this have probably already established their lives around a gay identity... if you could have become heterosexual back when you first realized you were gay, would you? Imagine for a moment that you were just as attracted to women as you are to men. Imagine yourself not missing being gay, because you were never of that inclination to begin with.

So?



Could have just said "any fudge packers here"?
juvenile.

although, homosexuals aren't the only ones who do it IDB.

 

3NF

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2005
1,345
0
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade

juvenile.

although, homosexuals aren't the only ones who do it IDB.

Many heterosexual men like it IDB. What does that say!
 

3NF

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2005
1,345
0
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: 3NF
Originally posted by: moshquerade

juvenile.

although, homosexuals aren't the only ones who do it IDB.

Many heterosexual men like it IDB. What does that say!
that would make them bisexual.

It does? The last I checked, my wife with a strap on isn't a guy. :confused:
 

GeekDrew

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2000
9,099
19
81
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: 3NF
Originally posted by: moshquerade

juvenile.

although, homosexuals aren't the only ones who do it IDB.

Many heterosexual men like it IDB. What does that say!
that would make them bisexual.

Not if one person is a man and one person is a woman.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: 3NF
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: 3NF
Originally posted by: moshquerade

juvenile.

although, homosexuals aren't the only ones who do it IDB.

Many heterosexual men like it IDB. What does that say!
that would make them bisexual.

It does? The last I checked, my wife with a strap on isn't a guy. :confused:
oh yeh? better check again. :Q

 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: GeekDrew
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: 3NF
Originally posted by: moshquerade

juvenile.

although, homosexuals aren't the only ones who do it IDB.

Many heterosexual men like it IDB. What does that say!
that would make them bisexual.

Not if one person is a man and one person is a woman.
ok, i will revise in lieu of the female using a strapon and say possibly bisexual.

 

3NF

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2005
1,345
0
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: 3NF
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: 3NF
Originally posted by: moshquerade

juvenile.

although, homosexuals aren't the only ones who do it IDB.

Many heterosexual men like it IDB. What does that say!
that would make them bisexual.

It does? The last I checked, my wife with a strap on isn't a guy. :confused:
oh yeh? better check again. :Q

It's plastic and it can come on or off - mine doesn't do that! Maybe she's a hermaphrodite :confused:
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: 3NF
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: 3NF
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: 3NF
Originally posted by: moshquerade

juvenile.

although, homosexuals aren't the only ones who do it IDB.

Many heterosexual men like it IDB. What does that say!
that would make them bisexual.

It does? The last I checked, my wife with a strap on isn't a guy. :confused:
oh yeh? better check again. :Q

It's plastic and it can come on or off - mine doesn't do that! Maybe she's a hermaphrodite :confused:
TMI